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Covid Vaccines and Pilots

Old 18th Dec 2022, 06:49
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Failing to comply with company policies is not discrimination. It is legal grounds to have your job terminated. If any pilot stated they refuse to operate an aircraft in accordance with SOPs and company policies then they too would have their employment terminated.
do you also work for Quantas? if so you may already know the in' s and out' s of the contract. have you seen the claus for jabs made retrospecitivly mandatry? maybe such jabs must be on ' reasonable " grounds, maybe such changes must be discussed with the employee group prier to implimnetation. maybe there IS no claus. other companys (a few not all) are finding this out in court.

you mightbe under the misconceptiion the legal world is exactly as it appears to the laymen and is simple and straightforward. It isnt. So to spell it out if the policy is introduced improperly then it possibly has no grounds and anyone sacked mightve been sacked wrongfuly and been discriminated against. A employer mandate esp one brung in improperly is compleetly different to an SOP.

having said that if an errent SOP is brought in which pilots believe has potential to lead to undesired aircraft state or outcome or simillar and pilots refuse to comply and raise a stink and you were cheif pilot do you still expect them to comply? but its an SOP!

Having said all that the senator is trying to upgrade an anti discrimination act or whatever. not so long ago if you prefered the company of other men youd be sacked and more. where do you draw the line Dre.? Whose okay to discrimintate against and who isnt? who died and left you in charge?

Having said all that and assuming thr courts find in favour of the defenedents in each case the one guy who had cancer and said hed comply when he was through with treatment and still sacked....... how do you justify that Dre? seems pretty tough. standing up against someone elses personal decision on a jab that doesnt even work. Your a tough man, Dr Dre! well at least on here.
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 06:55
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Originally Posted by brokenagain
After the events in Queensland last week, Senator Roberts might want to be careful which cookers he hitches his wagon up to in his opportunistic chase for votes (albeit from a very small percentage of the total population).
thats a funny way of looking at it. i think Roberts could find a lot more votes if he went mainstream on his views woudnt you say? seems to be taking the hard road, maybe he believes in something else, no not the tooth fairy, not area 51, im talking about ethics. maybe his motoivation is different to some of the other pollies. what could it be?
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 08:03
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Originally Posted by FatPilot
do you also work for Quantas?
No one does. Now Qantas on the other hand...
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 08:05
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Originally Posted by FatPilot
thats a funny way of looking at it. i think Roberts could find a lot more votes if he went mainstream on his views woudnt you say? seems to be taking the hard road, maybe he believes in something else, no not the tooth fairy, not area 51, im talking about ethics. maybe his motoivation is different to some of the other pollies. what could it be?
No. Because he is only in the Senate because he is with One Nation, and whacky views are a pre-requisite.. There's no way in hell any other party would put him on their ticket.
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 08:31
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz
No. Because he is only in the Senate because he is with One Nation, and whacky views are a pre-requisite.. There's no way in hell any other party would put him on their ticket.
Actually if you look at the anti vax legislation he proposed he gained the support of 4 LNP Senators, Canavan, Antic, Rennick and McLachlan, along with Palmer’s Babet, all of whom are in the whacky Roberts club anyway.

But only 6 votes out of 76 in the Senate will ensure that type of legislation has zero chance of ever getting up.

So despite our spelling challenged mate’s assertions, vaccine mandates are legal and will not be overruled by legislation.

Originally Posted by FatPilot
do you also work for Quantas? if so you may already know the in' s and out' s of the contract. have you seen the claus for jabs made retrospecitivly mandatry? maybe such jabs must be on ' reasonable " grounds, maybe such changes must be discussed with the employee group prier to implimnetation. maybe there IS no claus. other companys (a few not all) are finding this out in court.

you mightbe under the misconceptiion the legal world is exactly as it appears to the laymen and is simple and straightforward. It isnt. So to spell it out if the policy is introduced improperly then it possibly has no grounds and anyone sacked mightve been sacked wrongfuly and been discriminated against. A employer mandate esp one brung in improperly is compleetly different to an SOP.
Employee groups, unions and OH&S groups were consulted before implementation of the policy. Courts have upheld mandates, the government will not legislate against them. What happened was 100% legal if the proper HR processes were followed.






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Old 18th Dec 2022, 11:19
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Originally Posted by FatPilot
.. maybe he believes in something else, no not the tooth fairy, not area 51, im talking about ethics….
Malcom Roberts and ethics is a long bow to draw in the same sentence.

I don’t believe in the tooth fairy, nor Area 51. But at least I’m not a massive on-record racist like Malcom Roberts.


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Old 18th Dec 2022, 13:12
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Nope I've had three Vax and never again no more, no masks no quarantine, no border closures. It's just a flu people! Nothing should have been mandatory, no lockdowns and no criminalising it. A total **** fight it was with idiots in State and Federal Parliament making it up as they went.
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 18:45
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Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds
Nope I've had three Vax and never again no more, no masks no quarantine, no border closures. It's just a flu people! Nothing should have been mandatory, no lockdowns and no criminalising it. A total **** fight it was with idiots in State and Federal Parliament making it up as they went.
Remember that time a single flu killed 1 000 000 people in America?

No, me neither...
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 19:08
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Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds
Nope I've had three Vax and never again no more, no masks no quarantine, no border closures. It's just a flu people! Nothing should have been mandatory, no lockdowns and no criminalising it. A total **** fight it was with idiots in State and Federal Parliament making it up as they went.
Sweden set the example of how it should have been done.
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 21:19
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Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds
Nope I've had three Vax and never again no more, no masks no quarantine, no border closures. It's just a flu people! Nothing should have been mandatory, no lockdowns and no criminalising it. A total **** fight it was with idiots in State and Federal Parliament making it up as they went.
​​​​​​​You looked at the excess deaths for the last few years? It's insane. Yeah, just a flu. For many, the illness is mild now. Initially, prior to vaccines, anti viral etc, mortality rate for developed countries sat around 4%. So, to minimise this risk especially to those less fighting fit than yourself, Malcolm, the government had little option but to restrict movement. A smart decision I feel. You can retrospectively wax lyrical all you like about what the government did wrong. It won't change the fact that vaccine mandates etc weren't a stab at ones' autonomy. Humans exist collectively. This was for the collection of humans. The same ones you transport day in and out. From your sentiment unfortunately, it seems you're only thinking of yourself. I picked up covid recently. I thankfully recovered ok. I spoke with someone else who caught it from same person. She's now on a ventilator as we speak, having oxygen forced into her diseased, and weakening lungs. The spreader only then apologised that she knowingly went to the function not realising the consequences as it was mild for her. Moral of story is: You have no idea what other comorbidities someone else has, if they're immune compromised etc. Instead she assumed that her illness would be the same. This is why the government mandated, why companies mandated, why border restrictions put in place. Show some compassion to your fellow humans.
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 21:28
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Originally Posted by HappyBandit


..You can retrospectively wax lyrical all you like about what the government did wrong. It won't change the fact that vaccine mandates etc weren't a stab at ones' autonomy…
Perhaps you can show us all the ‘science’ behind the vaccine mandates ?

​​​​​​​
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 23:09
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Originally Posted by Flying Binghi
Perhaps you can show us all the ‘science’ behind the vaccine mandates ?

​​​​​​​Why would anyone bother? You'll just counter with a link to Infowars and believe that instead.
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Old 18th Dec 2022, 23:37
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Originally Posted by Flying Binghi
Perhaps you can show us all the ‘science’ behind the vaccine mandates ?


​​​​​​​What is the point, no one who is anti mandate or vax seems to have the ability to understand and trust science anyway.
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Old 19th Dec 2022, 00:42
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Which airlines have a mandate?

QF group? Virgin? Alliance? Cobham?

I can only think of one top end operator who doesn’t
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Old 19th Dec 2022, 03:02
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz
Why would anyone bother? You'll just counter with a link to Infowars and believe that instead.
There s many many opinions out there to the efect that mandates were a bad idea, here in aus and a broad. i would only rely on the qualifiied ones myself. If you dont want "infowars " whatever that is then whos opinoin WOULD you accept ? you dont seem to want to understand that jus because the machine shuts down a highly qaulified expert in the feild that doesnt mean hes wrong or a quack. yesterday he or she was a respected proffessional, today shuned because he /she didnt agree with the agenda. there 's a huge diference in those 2 scenarios. Why dont you like hearing it? look up congitive disonannce. see if it fits your outlook. Just trying to help./
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Old 19th Dec 2022, 03:18
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Originally Posted by FatPilot
There s many many opinions out there to the efect that mandates were a bad idea, here in aus and a broad. i would only rely on the qualifiied ones myself. If you dont want "infowars " whatever that is then whos opinoin WOULD you accept ? you dont seem to want to understand that jus because the machine shuts down a highly qaulified expert in the feild that doesnt mean hes wrong or a quack. yesterday he or she was a respected proffessional, today shuned because he /she didnt agree with the agenda. there 's a huge diference in those 2 scenarios. Why dont you like hearing it? look up congitive disonannce. see if it fits your outlook. Just trying to help./
Perhaps people would be more inclined to listen to you if you were more predisposed to using spellcheck. Actually no, they probably wouldn't. Carry on.
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Old 19th Dec 2022, 03:18
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Some trying to refight battles already fought and lost.

Covid was a problem.

The vaccine overcame that problem.

Mandates were legal and those who chose to not comply with them will not get their jobs back no matter how hard Malcolm Roberts tries.

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Old 19th Dec 2022, 05:05
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Originally Posted by dr dre
The Sydney Trains case regarded backpay and leave entitlements for those who were stood down in accordance with the policy, it was ruling on the HR processes involved. Not the mandate itself and the Commssion made that clear in the case.

Legal cases in Australia arguing unfair dismissal and challenging mandates themselves have been unsuccessful in multiple industries.
If you read the full decision - This is what was said.

"I am not prepared, in the absence of appropriate evidence, to simply conclude that the Policy is reasonable and/or lawful or proportionate as a workplace health and safety response to the risks presented by COVID 19.
& This

"However, I also give significant weight to the fact that a vaccination policy such as that included in the Policy intrudes on one’s right to bodily integrity if it is complied with. The practical effect of the Policy is to place pressure on an employee to give up this fundamental right, given that non-compliance is accompanied by potential disciplinary consequences that include termination of employment. This weighs against the Policy being assessed as reasonable."

Also the recent teacher one.

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...accine-mandate
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Old 19th Dec 2022, 06:16
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The vaccine overcame that problem.
Sure it did. Did more people die from Covid in the US in a vaccinated 2021 than an unvaccinated 2020?
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Old 19th Dec 2022, 07:08
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Originally Posted by bolthead
The vaccine overcame that problem.
Sure it did. Did more people die from Covid in the US in a vaccinated 2021 than an unvaccinated 2020?
Meaningless question- NO-ONE died of it in 2018, because it didn't exist. In 2020 it hadn't spread as far as in 2021.

Now, what was the incidence of death and serious illness in the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated? Answer, FAR higher (like a factor of ten) among the unvaccinated.

The fact that you ask the question means you absorb distorted figures from partisan sources.
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