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Issues with Longhaul pilots returning to the skies after 2 years.

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Issues with Longhaul pilots returning to the skies after 2 years.

Old 19th Dec 2021, 12:04
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Issues with Longhaul pilots returning to the skies after 2 years.

Guys, I wouldn't normally post a spotter video like this but in light of the recent Qatar 77W incident at Brisbane, seeing this SQ A380 at Sydney float past Gulf and landing significantly right of Centreline got me thinking, is this an issue with crews who have been stood down for the better part of 2 years being rushed back into the cockpit? I just find it really odd to see what are normally very good crews pulling off some pretty ordinary landings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFU1...kpy9W7QK6WIFUO
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 13:02
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Currency and/or proficiency are very much two different things. LH crews the world over have struggled to maintain both. Didn’t help he had a tailwind, though.
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 13:11
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Hey listen I know the Skipper and having just spoken to him I can confirm that he has just transitioned from a Boeing and being a bit confused over FMA call-outs and not realising the landing lights were on because they were backwards he fluffed the landing slightly.

All good though, he’s got a couple more training sectors and next time he’ll plonk it on the right rectangle 👍
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 21:33
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Longhaul or Domestic we have been grounded for similar periods and have both gone through the same hoops getting back to speed. The bigger stuff normally gets all the YouTube clicks as itís exactly that, bigger metal makes it more dramatic.

I would be careful pointing to crews all being rushed. I canít answer for all training departments, however I have had more asymmetric practice in the sim, in the last year, than Iíve had in the last near 20 years on the same type. Things Iíve let slip in the sim wouldnít have been acceptable a few years ago.

The challenge is everyone is different, learns at different speeds, and has different abilities. Has been talk of minimum recent experience required in the cockpit by some carriers, normally one with a hundred hours or so alongside the person who just left the sim. Thatís a challenge for LH operators who are all coming back at once as such, ramping up very fast.

That landing was probably expected with a tailwind and lack of recent manual landing experience. I did something similar when I returned, floated down runways in my few weeks like I did back when I qas new to type. Takes a little while to transfer the sim comfort level over to the real deal.

Early descent, Configure earlier, stabilise yourself early. Take your time folks.

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Old 19th Dec 2021, 21:40
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
Longhaul or Domestic we have been grounded for similar periods and have both gone through the same hoops getting back to speed. The bigger stuff normally gets all the YouTube clicks as itís exactly that, bigger metal makes it more dramatic.

I would be careful pointing to crews all being rushed. I canít answer for all training departments, however I have had more asymmetric practice in the sim, in the last year, than Iíve had in the last near 20 years on the same type. Things Iíve let slip in the sim wouldnít have been acceptable a few years ago.

The challenge is everyone is different, learns at different speeds, and has different abilities. Has been talk of minimum recent experience required in the cockpit by some carriers, normally one with a hundred hours or so alongside the person who just left the sim. Thatís a challenge for LH operators who are all coming back at once as such, ramping up very fast.

The landing was probably expected with a tailwind and low recency. I did something similar when I returned. Takes a little while to transfer the sim comfort level over to the real deal.

Early descent, Configure earlier, stabilise yourself early. Take your time folks.
The main reason I reference LH is just due to the fact a domestic pilot is likely going to do more landings in the first week back than the LH captain does in the first year.

Anyway I'm totally with you on about everyone having issues. I'm just a SE Instructor and I imagine i'll have a few extra poorly demonstrated landings in the first weeks back.
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 21:58
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ATC seemed a little distracting during that landing. The "Cleared to Land" call was long winded and it seemed rather late. Then ATC issued initial taxi instructions only a few seconds after touch. Just seemed to all be at the wrong time.
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 22:22
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I think thatís the way the video is just edited to cram it all in, in a short timeframe. ATC doesnít do that.
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Old 19th Dec 2021, 22:58
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I'd suggest that everyone needs to take a couple of deep breaths and approach things carefully, whether they be long-haul, short-haul or GA. Over the past 22 months lots of pilots have not only been deprived of an opportunity to practice their craft, but have experienced great uncertainty over their futures. Many have also found themselves unemployed and/or in very distressed financial circumstances, with all the personal stress that results from the above.

Checkers need to be mindful of this and give pilots as much time as they need in the sim, and employers cannot assume that everyone will just slip back into the groove in minimum time. We also need to carefully evaluate our personal minimums; remember there is no always the option of going around or diverting.
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Old 20th Dec 2021, 00:00
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
I think thatís the way the video is just edited to cram it all in, in a short timeframe. ATC doesnít do that.
Yeah it is, the guy actual live streams it so you can find it there. The landing clearance is much earlier, the taxi instructions are actually unedited.
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Old 20th Dec 2021, 02:20
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What I've found is that initially, you are very aware Of your lack of recency and are thus that bit slower and more careful. However after a few weeks you quickly fall back into your groove and familiarity returns to a some what normal "2019" level. This is when your lack of skills combined with an increased sense of confidence really bites. All the stupid stuff I've done seems to have been more prevalent later on rather than just after returning to work. Be careful every one.
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Old 20th Dec 2021, 02:39
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Possibly this requires it’s own thread, but there appears to be another issue looming with the near simultaneous return of so many stood down pilots...

MEDICALS! Or more to the point the delays in AVMED processing them?
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Old 20th Dec 2021, 09:41
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It's not just us, wait until ATC has to start handling large traffic volumes again.
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Old 21st Dec 2021, 06:16
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Taxi and frequency transfer in the same transmission is very poor ATC IMHO. Better to issue the frequency transfer as the aircraft vacates the runway and is entering the taxiway. Control the situation and not have the aircraft on another frequency whilst still occupying the runway.
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Old 21st Dec 2021, 09:15
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Originally Posted by KRUSTY 34 View Post
Possibly this requires itís own thread, but there appears to be another issue looming with the near simultaneous return of so many stood down pilots...

MEDICALS! Or more to the point the delays in AVMED processing them?
Just did my renewal and as I understand DAMEís now have the authority to issue the full 12 month medical on the spot, not just the extension. I had mine emailed to me by the time I got home from the doc.
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Old 21st Dec 2021, 23:54
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Going back to the A380 approach that kicked this thread off, I wonder if weíre not reading a bit too much into it. A tailwind on finalís never going to help, but it was all looking pretty good until it was established in the flare. But if some of that tailwind suddenly drops out in the flare, then right away youíve got maybe an extra 5 KIAS you werenít expecting, the jet levitates a bit, and now youíve got exactly what we saw on the video. (And any crosswind in an extended float will inevitably put you off centreline.) Thereís not a lot you can do about it, you either ride it out (usually ending in an inelegant touchdown like we saw here), or decide to go around. Without being on that flight deck, I couldnít say that what they did was wrong. Bottom line, it can happen to all of us, and isnít necessarily indicative of poor or degraded skills. It also proves that a nice approach doesnít always result in a nice landing, as I keep demonstrating to myself.
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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 02:08
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Given they made the High Speed taxiway it's hardly an issue let's be honest.....

You also have the problem of doing a goaround off the runway at the worst possible time with only 2800m remaining. A crew at EK showed the world how safe that was...
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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 06:11
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I jumped on a bike for the first time in 20 years recently, after 5 minutes I was fine. A couple of sims and an observation flight ought to do it.
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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 19:20
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Krismiller, exactly this re ATC. We stayed reasonably busy throughout the pandemic in the UK/EU compared to others. ATC however, didn't. We'd pretty much ramped up to full speed by May 2021, but ATC, especially in little used sectors were definitely feeling it. We really had to be proactive so we (and them) weren't rushed.
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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 19:24
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I'd be interested to know if SQ includes TDZ limits in its stable approach policy.
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Old 23rd Dec 2021, 01:34
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Originally Posted by kev2002 View Post
I'd be interested to know if SQ includes TDZ limits in its stable approach policy.
I'd be interested to know what are the TDZ limits you have in mind, missing at SQ or not. Careful, trick question for some.

after 5 minutes I was fine. A couple of sims and an observation flight
Devil is in the detail. Yesterday I was cleared to a FL identical with the TA. Company policy is to reset STD at TA. Took a few moments longer than appropriate to see the problem for what it was.
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