New 'Bonza' LCC launches middle 2022 with B737 MAX
Yes I have a lot of experience with an MPL program abroad as well. The sell-out aviators used the old 22 year old in an F35 example, for a program that would eventually be picked to death by budgetary constraints and commercial rewards for pilots in supervisory roles who cut the training back further. There was no 22 year old F35 pilot produced- in the end there were pilots put on the line who had never done a visual approach or hand-flown a raw data ILS. But hang on, pilots don’t need these skill sets? Well the regulator deemed they did but the end training product looked nothing like what IATA guidelines suggested or the regulator demanded.
I scoff at too-cool, contrarian aviators above banging on about market forces. I made enough money thanks to aviation to retire before 50. This due to true market forces. I don’t see market forces at play in Australia. I don’t understand the industrial landscape enough to make qualified comment, however, it looks slewed toward corporations. The only way to play market forces in this country would be to universally discourage people entering the industry.
On uniforms, when I left Australia, Virgin pilots were dressed like GA piston pilots from up North, were paid a fraction of the incumbents and paid for their training ( which was low cost standard by accounts ) We’ve done the uniform argument to death on Dunnunda. Market forces? The established airlines had comprehensive and expensive training programs and our regulator approved some underdone training processes. The Dawn of the Low Cost Pilot.
I scoff at too-cool, contrarian aviators above banging on about market forces. I made enough money thanks to aviation to retire before 50. This due to true market forces. I don’t see market forces at play in Australia. I don’t understand the industrial landscape enough to make qualified comment, however, it looks slewed toward corporations. The only way to play market forces in this country would be to universally discourage people entering the industry.
On uniforms, when I left Australia, Virgin pilots were dressed like GA piston pilots from up North, were paid a fraction of the incumbents and paid for their training ( which was low cost standard by accounts ) We’ve done the uniform argument to death on Dunnunda. Market forces? The established airlines had comprehensive and expensive training programs and our regulator approved some underdone training processes. The Dawn of the Low Cost Pilot.
Hey Mr/Ms 250 hour grad your turn for a OEI circling approach at night at the minima with no slope guidance?? Of course they will struggle, who wouldn’t. The whole “cadet” BS thing is just another tool the co. uses to continue to drive wages and conditions down. As another poster noted we are inching ever closer to a hull loss here in Oz. Sad but true.
Whilst there were some outliers who varied from the norm to both ends of the spectrum (some fantastic cadets or some truly awful experienced airline guys), there was a clear difference in the different backgrounds in how they handled things in the cockpit when things got rather busy or out of the norm.
Generally, those with experience outside of the environment we were in, could multi-task much better, kept better situational awareness, and were overall much better at keeping the whole picture in check and had a Plan B and Plan C ready to go should Plan A start to not work. And good, efficient plans.
So while you might have a cadet who can fly the plane when things are inside a “normal window”, it’s keeping it efficient and flowing well while still operating the aircraft within its safety margins when things aren’t going as you expected that takes years to master.
The company set the uniform.
Thats how they portray their staff.
Pilots arguing about their status and not fighting management who laugh at them, makes my blood boil.
Thank **&$ I’m getting out of this industry
Thats how they portray their staff.
Pilots arguing about their status and not fighting management who laugh at them, makes my blood boil.
Thank **&$ I’m getting out of this industry
Qf is already showing how they will supplement their pilot numbers through the academy. Many of the current senior pilots at QF would have been cadets from the early 90’s. Make of that what you will.
Brilliant. Nothing says 'I'm a highly qualified professional' like opening dialogue with someone by labelling their statements as stupidity, then crying that they get insulted back.
Does your book have a chapter on self awareness?
The amount of self importance in this thread is mind boggling. I see we've managed to start putting the boot into cadets now too. Justified though I concede. After all, if you can teach a 23 year old to fly an F-35 with 300 hours TT, there is no way they could ever be taught how to fly an Airbus.
Love the 'back in my day' reference by whoever it was about a OEI night circling to a no slope landing. You do realise its not 1947 anymore right? I don't know about Virgin, but at Qantas circling has been banned for years. I'd love to hear the calculation for the probability of a scenario where the captain dies, an engine explodes, somehow you're so far away from a suitable airfield that an approach has to be made at an out port with no IAP, where the wx is at minima and the slope guidance u/s. Classic.
Those darn cadets! Probably couldn't even handle a quadruple hydraulic failure with wing seperation and simultaneous magnetic pole reversal! A hull loss is coming folks! I tells ya!
Depends, how many pictures of you posing in front of your boat are there? Ima need at least 4
Not in Australia brutha, to suggest otherwise is disengenuous.
An honour to meet a real life rocket surgeon
Interesting statement, given nearly twice as many people died in Australias worst bus crash vs Australias worst plane crash.
This argument is boring now. If you think being a pilot makes you special, you're deluded. Feel free to fight amongst yourselves.
This right here is proving Das’s point. This is part of the Austronaut culture where if you have flown a clapped out 210 in the middle of nowhere for 5 years, that you’re somehow incapable of being a real pilot and lack the decision making and manipulation skills to fly IFR in a highly automated jet.
Somehow the rest of the world can let low hour guys and gals jump into a control seat however in Aus, they wouldn’t be considered ‘real pilots’.
Pilots in Australia need a reality check. It’s a job, we’re all replaceable. Look at how many pilots the QF academy is currently pumping out. The majority of candidates will be capable of jumping into the right hand seat of a turbo prop or a jet with no issues.
If you want an ego, go become a lawyer, surgeon, heck join aviation management. They get paid the big bucks because their skills and experience are tightly held. Not everyone wants or has what it takes to study for 10-15 years to get a consultant/barrister level.
The only hurdles to getting a pilots license are costs and holding a medical. Although the cost problem has now disappeared with vet fee.
It's amusing to watch just how mad that reality makes the more deluded amongst you.
It's not my fault you've made this so entertaining.
Das did you go to school?
Me saying a comment you made stuns me is not "throwing an insult". It is a statement of how much I disagree with your argument. I called you no names, nor made any attack on you, I disagreed strongly with your argument. You saying I stand in the galley offering autographs to passengers is attacking the man with an insiult. Saying your comment stuns me is not insulting you, it is a statement to say I do not agree with your statement. That is a debate..... why we are here. Calling your statement stupid is, again, not attacking the man, it is attacking your argument. Big difference.
What you insinuate is if someone disagrees with you, they are insulting you. There's a very big difference between me disagreeing with your argument and you attacking my character with the autograph and book comment. I can't believe I'm even having to explain this. Particularly as you are clearly not the type, no matter how strong the opposition argument, to actually say "yeah, maybe you're right". That is a sign of gross arrogance - and yes, please take that as an insult.
No pictures of a boat in my book. I fish off a kayak. And I'm not giving you a copy anyway - you'll have to get yours from Vinnies
Edit - whoops, just saw that you DID actually say "I got it wrong" reference Lockhart River. I retract my comment saying you wouldn't do that, and hence retract my arrogance comment..
Me saying a comment you made stuns me is not "throwing an insult". It is a statement of how much I disagree with your argument. I called you no names, nor made any attack on you, I disagreed strongly with your argument. You saying I stand in the galley offering autographs to passengers is attacking the man with an insiult. Saying your comment stuns me is not insulting you, it is a statement to say I do not agree with your statement. That is a debate..... why we are here. Calling your statement stupid is, again, not attacking the man, it is attacking your argument. Big difference.
What you insinuate is if someone disagrees with you, they are insulting you. There's a very big difference between me disagreeing with your argument and you attacking my character with the autograph and book comment. I can't believe I'm even having to explain this. Particularly as you are clearly not the type, no matter how strong the opposition argument, to actually say "yeah, maybe you're right". That is a sign of gross arrogance - and yes, please take that as an insult.
No pictures of a boat in my book. I fish off a kayak. And I'm not giving you a copy anyway - you'll have to get yours from Vinnies
Edit - whoops, just saw that you DID actually say "I got it wrong" reference Lockhart River. I retract my comment saying you wouldn't do that, and hence retract my arrogance comment..
I'm not ashamed to say I have a boat, a big boat, they almost confiscated it thinking it was a Russian oligarchs. It's nothing like a bus to drive though, took me a whole 20 minutes to learn to drive it, my bus licence took one pull over stop while doing my HR licence, it was really challenging to stop in 50 meters and within 1 meter of the curb from under 40kph, so was much more complicated. I've decided to wear a bus drivers hat while sailing now, as its the same thing really. I won't let cadets near it though, as they are only minibus capable, like turboprops and stuff.
Meanwhile, in the very first comment you made to me.
Love the 'back in my day' reference by whoever it was about a OEI night circling to a no slope landing. You do realise its not 1947 anymore right? I don't know about Virgin, but at Qantas circling has been banned for years. I'd love to hear the calculation for the probability of a scenario where the captain dies, an engine explodes, somehow you're so far away from a suitable airfield that an approach has to be made at an out port with no IAP, where the wx is at minima and the slope guidance u/s. Classic.
Those darn cadets! Probably couldn't even handle a quadruple hydraulic failure with wing seperation and simultaneous magnetic pole reversal! A hull loss is coming folks! I tells ya!
4
Love the 'back in my day' reference by whoever it was about a OEI night circling to a no slope landing. You do realise its not 1947 anymore right? I don't know about Virgin, but at Qantas circling has been banned for years. I'd love to hear the calculation for the probability of a scenario where the captain dies, an engine explodes, somehow you're so far away from a suitable airfield that an approach has to be made at an out port with no IAP, where the wx is at minima and the slope guidance u/s. Classic.
Those darn cadets! Probably couldn't even handle a quadruple hydraulic failure with wing seperation and simultaneous magnetic pole reversal! A hull loss is coming folks! I tells ya!
4
I recall as a domestic Australian airline pilot, CASA required a circling approach off an NPA as part of your 90 day sim proficiency. It was singe engine and 500 feet. Nobody in their right mind would circle in those circumstances, it was a skill-set that maintained the high levels of airline handling proficiency on reflection. The skill-set is transferable to other scenarios.
QF stated becoming more involved in domestic flying and I am not sure if the exercises dropped however when QF’s Jensen took over Ansett the sim was reduced to six monthly and the program less demanding.
I went abroad and flew with two different Cadet airlines. The first totally banned circling and visual approaches as the skills too low. The second still required circling approach proficiency though eventually dropped the requirement as the pilot group struggled and this streamlined training costs.
All this was this century! We are dumbing down the job to keep wages low.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140525...0compliant.pdf
I recall as a domestic Australian airline pilot, CASA required a circling approach off an NPA as part of your 90 day sim proficiency. It was singe engine and 500 feet. Nobody in their right mind would circle in those circumstances, it was a skill-set that maintained the high levels of airline handling proficiency on reflection. The skill-set is transferable to other scenarios.
QF stated becoming more involved in domestic flying and I am not sure if the exercises dropped however when QF’s Jensen took over Ansett the sim was reduced to six monthly and the program less demanding.
I went abroad and flew with two different Cadet airlines. The first totally banned circling and visual approaches as the skills too low. The second still required circling approach proficiency though eventually dropped the requirement as the pilot group struggled and this streamlined training costs.
All this was this century! We are dumbing down the job to keep wages low.
QF stated becoming more involved in domestic flying and I am not sure if the exercises dropped however when QF’s Jensen took over Ansett the sim was reduced to six monthly and the program less demanding.
I went abroad and flew with two different Cadet airlines. The first totally banned circling and visual approaches as the skills too low. The second still required circling approach proficiency though eventually dropped the requirement as the pilot group struggled and this streamlined training costs.
All this was this century! We are dumbing down the job to keep wages low.
I recall well trained cadet pilots being let loose in Mach 2.5 flying machines that weighed the same as a fully loaded DC-9 at age 19 straight after wings awarded.