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New 'Bonza' LCC launches middle 2022 with B737 MAX

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New 'Bonza' LCC launches middle 2022 with B737 MAX

Old 18th Jun 2022, 00:35
  #481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
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Yes I have a lot of experience with an MPL program abroad as well. The sell-out aviators used the old 22 year old in an F35 example, for a program that would eventually be picked to death by budgetary constraints and commercial rewards for pilots in supervisory roles who cut the training back further. There was no 22 year old F35 pilot produced- in the end there were pilots put on the line who had never done a visual approach or hand-flown a raw data ILS. But hang on, pilots donít need these skill sets? Well the regulator deemed they did but the end training product looked nothing like what IATA guidelines suggested or the regulator demanded.

I scoff at too-cool, contrarian aviators above banging on about market forces. I made enough money thanks to aviation to retire before 50. This due to true market forces. I donít see market forces at play in Australia. I donít understand the industrial landscape enough to make qualified comment, however, it looks slewed toward corporations. The only way to play market forces in this country would be to universally discourage people entering the industry.

On uniforms, when I left Australia, Virgin pilots were dressed like GA piston pilots from up North, were paid a fraction of the incumbents and paid for their training ( which was low cost standard by accounts ) Weíve done the uniform argument to death on Dunnunda. Market forces? The established airlines had comprehensive and expensive training programs and our regulator approved some underdone training processes. The Dawn of the Low Cost Pilot.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 01:19
  #482 (permalink)  
 
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First aircraft due is ex LOT MSN60388 SP-LVE that was never taken up
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 07:47
  #483 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Hey Mr/Ms 250 hour grad your turn for a OEI circling approach at night at the minima with no slope guidance?? Of course they will struggle, who wouldnít. The whole ďcadetĒ BS thing is just another tool the co. uses to continue to drive wages and conditions down. As another poster noted we are inching ever closer to a hull loss here in Oz. Sad but true.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 10:13
  #484 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Red69 View Post
Not a cadet, just a realist who can see whatís happening in this industry. I trust you donít fly any European or Asian airlines as their pilots havenít battled through GA to meet strict Austronaut standards?
Iíve flown as PIC in Asia with a variety of nationalities with varying backgrounds, from GA backgrounds (Pakistani and Nepalese GA stories are some of the best!) to cadets to ex military and all the way to decades of airline experience.

Whilst there were some outliers who varied from the norm to both ends of the spectrum (some fantastic cadets or some truly awful experienced airline guys), there was a clear difference in the different backgrounds in how they handled things in the cockpit when things got rather busy or out of the norm.

Generally, those with experience outside of the environment we were in, could multi-task much better, kept better situational awareness, and were overall much better at keeping the whole picture in check and had a Plan B and Plan C ready to go should Plan A start to not work. And good, efficient plans.

So while you might have a cadet who can fly the plane when things are inside a ďnormal windowĒ, itís keeping it efficient and flowing well while still operating the aircraft within its safety margins when things arenít going as you expected that takes years to master.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 10:31
  #485 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Put people in big metal container and deliver them safely somewhere else.
so a bus driver is the same as a Space Shuttle Mission Commander. Your logic.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 11:12
  #486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
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The company set the uniform.
Thats how they portray their staff.
Pilots arguing about their status and not fighting management who laugh at them, makes my blood boil.
Thank **&$ Iím getting out of this industry
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 11:14
  #487 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
So while you might have a cadet who can fly the plane when things are inside a ďnormal windowĒ, itís keeping it efficient and flowing well while still operating the aircraft within its safety margins when things arenít going as you expected that takes years to master.
The reality is that the people who run these airlines have a different set of motives from you and I. It doesnít matter what your experiences have been, management will find the cheapest way to place a warm body in the RHS (that can pass a bi annual sim).

Qf is already showing how they will supplement their pilot numbers through the academy. Many of the current senior pilots at QF would have been cadets from the early 90ís. Make of that what you will.


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Old 18th Jun 2022, 11:57
  #488 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
Why can't you engage in debate without slinging shit ........... I said your comments stun me, you throw insults....... Good job.
Meanwhile, in the very first comment you made to me.

Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
In one short (stupid) statement you have


Brilliant. Nothing says 'I'm a highly qualified professional' like opening dialogue with someone by labelling their statements as stupidity, then crying that they get insulted back.

Does your book have a chapter on self awareness?

The amount of self importance in this thread is mind boggling. I see we've managed to start putting the boot into cadets now too. Justified though I concede. After all, if you can teach a 23 year old to fly an F-35 with 300 hours TT, there is no way they could ever be taught how to fly an Airbus.

Love the 'back in my day' reference by whoever it was about a OEI night circling to a no slope landing. You do realise its not 1947 anymore right? I don't know about Virgin, but at Qantas circling has been banned for years. I'd love to hear the calculation for the probability of a scenario where the captain dies, an engine explodes, somehow you're so far away from a suitable airfield that an approach has to be made at an out port with no IAP, where the wx is at minima and the slope guidance u/s. Classic.

Those darn cadets! Probably couldn't even handle a quadruple hydraulic failure with wing seperation and simultaneous magnetic pole reversal! A hull loss is coming folks! I tells ya!

​​
Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
Now, are you gunna buy a copy of my book or not?
Depends, how many pictures of you posing in front of your boat are there? Ima need at least 4
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 12:24
  #489 (permalink)  
 
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Not in Australia brutha, to suggest otherwise is disengenuous.
Not in Australia, not because of any special qualities an Australian pilot may have, not in Australia because it hasn't been needed. Pretty simple really. You can turn my comment into any view point you want, whatever.

An honour to meet a real life rocket surgeon
You asked what my quals were, I answered. I didn't tell you how good I was did I? I just said I'm experienced, so what, you're the one making such a big deal out of it.

Interesting statement, given nearly twice as many people died in Australias worst bus crash vs Australias worst plane crash.
It doesn't fit your narrative that a pilot is just a bus driver when the lives of so many are held in their hands. You're trying to tell everyone here that they're not special right? But they really are?

This argument is boring now. If you think being a pilot makes you special, you're deluded. Feel free to fight amongst yourselves.
Yet ya keep on coming back.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 12:30
  #490 (permalink)  
 
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This right here is proving Das’s point. This is part of the Austronaut culture where if you have flown a clapped out 210 in the middle of nowhere for 5 years, that you’re somehow incapable of being a real pilot and lack the decision making and manipulation skills to fly IFR in a highly automated jet.

Somehow the rest of the world can let low hour guys and gals jump into a control seat however in Aus, they wouldn’t be considered ‘real pilots’.

Pilots in Australia need a reality check. It’s a job, we’re all replaceable. Look at how many pilots the QF academy is currently pumping out. The majority of candidates will be capable of jumping into the right hand seat of a turbo prop or a jet with no issues.

If you want an ego, go become a lawyer, surgeon, heck join aviation management. They get paid the big bucks because their skills and experience are tightly held. Not everyone wants or has what it takes to study for 10-15 years to get a consultant/barrister level.

The only hurdles to getting a pilots license are costs and holding a medical. Although the cost problem has now disappeared with vet fee.
I don't recall making points to the contrary. The only reason you're not in the right hand seat of these jets after 12 months or whatever it is, is that there's a ready supply of pilots that have spent a few years in GA. I couldn't care less if you're in the right seat of an airbus with 200 hours under your belt.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 12:43
  #491 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
... nearly twice as many people died in Australias worst bus crash vs Australias worst plane crash.
By virtue of what form of numerical reasoning is 35 (1989 Kempsey bus crash) "nearly twice" 29 (1950 ANA DC-4 Armana crash/1960 TAA flight 538 crash)??
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 13:26
  #492 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
By virtue of what form of numerical reasoning is 35 (1989 Kempsey bus crash) "nearly twice" 29 (1950 ANA DC-4 Armana crash/1960 TAA flight 538 crash)??
Oh you're dead right, sorry. Had it in my head Lockhart River was the worst air crash. You are quite right.
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 13:39
  #493 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
You're trying to tell everyone here that they're not special right? But they really are?
They really aren't.

It's amusing to watch just how mad that reality makes the more deluded amongst you.

Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
Yet ya keep on coming back.
​​​​​​It's not my fault you've made this so entertaining.



​​​


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Old 18th Jun 2022, 22:07
  #494 (permalink)  
 
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Das did you go to school?

Me saying a comment you made stuns me is not "throwing an insult". It is a statement of how much I disagree with your argument. I called you no names, nor made any attack on you, I disagreed strongly with your argument. You saying I stand in the galley offering autographs to passengers is attacking the man with an insiult. Saying your comment stuns me is not insulting you, it is a statement to say I do not agree with your statement. That is a debate..... why we are here. Calling your statement stupid is, again, not attacking the man, it is attacking your argument. Big difference.
What you insinuate is if someone disagrees with you, they are insulting you. There's a very big difference between me disagreeing with your argument and you attacking my character with the autograph and book comment. I can't believe I'm even having to explain this. Particularly as you are clearly not the type, no matter how strong the opposition argument, to actually say "yeah, maybe you're right". That is a sign of gross arrogance - and yes, please take that as an insult.

No pictures of a boat in my book. I fish off a kayak. And I'm not giving you a copy anyway - you'll have to get yours from Vinnies

Edit - whoops, just saw that you DID actually say "I got it wrong" reference Lockhart River. I retract my comment saying you wouldn't do that, and hence retract my arrogance comment..
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 23:35
  #495 (permalink)  
 
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Old 18th Jun 2022, 23:42
  #496 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not ashamed to say I have a boat, a big boat, they almost confiscated it thinking it was a Russian oligarchs. It's nothing like a bus to drive though, took me a whole 20 minutes to learn to drive it, my bus licence took one pull over stop while doing my HR licence, it was really challenging to stop in 50 meters and within 1 meter of the curb from under 40kph, so was much more complicated. I've decided to wear a bus drivers hat while sailing now, as its the same thing really. I won't let cadets near it though, as they are only minibus capable, like turboprops and stuff.
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Old 19th Jun 2022, 01:24
  #497 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Meanwhile, in the very first comment you made to me.




Love the 'back in my day' reference by whoever it was about a OEI night circling to a no slope landing. You do realise its not 1947 anymore right? I don't know about Virgin, but at Qantas circling has been banned for years. I'd love to hear the calculation for the probability of a scenario where the captain dies, an engine explodes, somehow you're so far away from a suitable airfield that an approach has to be made at an out port with no IAP, where the wx is at minima and the slope guidance u/s. Classic.

Those darn cadets! Probably couldn't even handle a quadruple hydraulic failure with wing seperation and simultaneous magnetic pole reversal! A hull loss is coming folks! I tells ya!

​​4

I recall as a domestic Australian airline pilot, CASA required a circling approach off an NPA as part of your 90 day sim proficiency. It was singe engine and 500 feet. Nobody in their right mind would circle in those circumstances, it was a skill-set that maintained the high levels of airline handling proficiency on reflection. The skill-set is transferable to other scenarios.

QF stated becoming more involved in domestic flying and I am not sure if the exercises dropped however when QFís Jensen took over Ansett the sim was reduced to six monthly and the program less demanding.

I went abroad and flew with two different Cadet airlines. The first totally banned circling and visual approaches as the skills too low. The second still required circling approach proficiency though eventually dropped the requirement as the pilot group struggled and this streamlined training costs.

All this was this century! We are dumbing down the job to keep wages low.
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Old 19th Jun 2022, 02:39
  #498 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gnadenburg View Post
All this was this century! We are dumbing down the job to keep wages low.
Well that certainly seems to be DUS's narrative. Just to keep things in perspective - things can go wrong awfully quickly. Not sure what uniform these guys were wearing at the time, but a change of jocks would have probably been necessary.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140525...0compliant.pdf
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Old 19th Jun 2022, 07:43
  #499 (permalink)  
 
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Hey das, not all parts of Q have “banned” circling approaches.
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Old 19th Jun 2022, 09:14
  #500 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gnadenburg View Post
I recall as a domestic Australian airline pilot, CASA required a circling approach off an NPA as part of your 90 day sim proficiency. It was singe engine and 500 feet. Nobody in their right mind would circle in those circumstances, it was a skill-set that maintained the high levels of airline handling proficiency on reflection. The skill-set is transferable to other scenarios.

QF stated becoming more involved in domestic flying and I am not sure if the exercises dropped however when QFís Jensen took over Ansett the sim was reduced to six monthly and the program less demanding.

I went abroad and flew with two different Cadet airlines. The first totally banned circling and visual approaches as the skills too low. The second still required circling approach proficiency though eventually dropped the requirement as the pilot group struggled and this streamlined training costs.

All this was this century! We are dumbing down the job to keep wages low.

I recall well trained cadet pilots being let loose in Mach 2.5 flying machines that weighed the same as a fully loaded DC-9 at age 19 straight after wings awarded.
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