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Boeing 737-8FE vh-yie

Old 20th Sep 2021, 05:48
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Boeing 737-8FE vh-yie

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2021-031/

>.... The autothrottle then also disengaged for reasons undetermined....

I think Boeing software needs some serious audit..
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Old 20th Sep 2021, 09:27
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When in doubt, fly the f**** aircraft - which the crew did, and all ended well.
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Old 20th Sep 2021, 11:54
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Originally Posted by Bosi72 View Post
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2021-031/

>.... The autothrottle then also disengaged for reasons undetermined....

I think Boeing software needs some serious audit..
Havenít read the report but the highlights said a circuit breaker popped, so whatís the issue you have with the B737-800 software?
Looks like everyone did a good job.
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Old 20th Sep 2021, 12:18
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Havenít read the report...
Maybe read the report ?
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Old 21st Sep 2021, 04:37
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Originally Posted by Bosi72 View Post
Maybe read the report ?
The report that doesn't exist because it was discontinued?
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Old 21st Sep 2021, 07:32
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A good scenario for Command candidates. I also wonder how this scenario would fit into the pilotless flight deck narrative.
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Old 21st Sep 2021, 21:10
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Nobody questions crew actions.

If the issue cannot be replicated and the cause is undetermined, would you agree something (and more) has to be done other than "continue to monitor"?

Here is similar incident involving zs-sjd from 2 years ago. The cause was also undetermined, however the report provides more details.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...eVAEYjTLa31cnc
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Old 21st Sep 2021, 22:50
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Bosi72. Next time you board an airliner, will it be a Boeing or an Airbus?
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Old 21st Sep 2021, 23:08
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If you’ve ever flown 737 the bloody autopilot and auto throttle does disconnect at random times, that has probably been the way since the 1960’s, however in the NG it does seem to be somewhat less than the classic 737’s, I read this as nothing to do with software, there was a popped circuit breaker was there not?
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 01:16
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
..will it be a Boeing or an Airbus?
It will be whatever the airliner flies.

As a pilot (and software engineer), I would like to know what causes any intermittent and unresolved issues.
Circuit breaker is mostly the last safety in the chain of events and is rarely root cause of an issue.

Also, replacing the light that works(shine) doesn't make sense to me. The light that does not work is usually replaced, not the other way.

This post has nothing to do with politics, conspiracies, whatever. Simply suggesting Boeing to audit the software, meaning put extra logging which could provide more information and hopefully lead to resolution.
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 09:11
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Your experience with the inner workings of a 737 (or any commercial jet) is how many hours/years/flights as a professional punter Bosi72?
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 09:31
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I'd just be interested to have confirmed that in addition to any NNC's a thorough scan of the CB panels was conducted.
Always been an "assumed will be completed" task within Non Normal ops but is not restated/reinforced after the general statement in the NNC introduction.

Especially once an additional crewmember was in the flightdeck you'd hope an initial/additional CB check would have been conducted, spotting any popped CB's always been a challenge on the 737.

Had a popped CB been found and a successful reset attempted that might have been the end of the story and a far more comfortable flight for the flightcrew completed.
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Old 22nd Sep 2021, 20:22
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Sigh......PPRUNE used to be a forum for professionals.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 01:13
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Bit harsh there KZ.
Galdian has a point.
You’d have to feel like a bit of a dick if you handflew the thing for 4 hours because of a tripped CB. I don’t fly the maggot, but I’m guessing one CB wouldn’t have caused 2 APs and ATs to fail with no redundancy.
The report was somewhat vague in that respect.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 02:10
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Originally Posted by galdian View Post
Had a popped CB been found and a successful reset attempted that might have been the end of the story and a far more comfortable flight for the flightcrew completed.
I appreciate the B737 is an 'antique' in many respects, but at the outfit where I flew (non-B737), resetting a tripped CB in flight was prohibited unless it was part of an FCOM procedure and the consequences of doing so were clearly understood. On some aircraft the systems protected by a CB may not be obvious and resetting a tripped CB might have unintended, serious consequences.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 02:18
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What Buzzbox said is very correct.
With what authorisation do you reset the circuit breaker in flight?? If it the reset is not covered in the reset table, abnormal checklist etc you don't touch it. CASA would deem a reset outside of this to be unauthorised maintenance and would do you slowly..
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 02:29
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As now pretty much retired don't have the NNC in front of me, last I knew in the intro - and only in the intro - it discussed CB's.
Generally one reset of a tripped CB was permitted.
No reset of a fuel CB was permitted.
Cannot remember if fuel CB was part specific (eg FUEL PUMPS) or the fuel system in general.
Apologies if procedural changes in the last couple of years.
Cheers.

And be reasonable - BuzzBox was talking SOP about non-737 aircraft, maybe interesting but not relevant.
And "reset table"? Never heard of such a thing on 737. Comment was in reference to 737 SOP (maybe company SOP) I assume?

Last edited by galdian; 23rd Sep 2021 at 03:06. Reason: additional
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 04:23
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Iím still trying to work out what the original poster wants. The aircraft had a A/P and auto throttle failure. TAWS works as it should, donít sink. The crew followed the QRH continued flight to the destination advised non rvsm etc asked for a block. didnít reset CBís as not recommended by Boeing in this procedure.
Engineering resets and test ok
ATSB says good job to the crew.

Fo goes to the bar and tells the girls how amazing he is.

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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 04:26
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Originally Posted by BuzzBox View Post
I appreciate the B737 is an 'antique' in many respects, but at the outfit where I flew (non-B737), resetting a tripped CB in flight was prohibited unless it was part of an FCOM procedure and the consequences of doing so were clearly understood. On some aircraft the systems protected by a CB may not be obvious and resetting a tripped CB might have unintended, serious consequences.
Many donít thatís the problem.

AirAsia 8501 is a report that should be read by all. Go playing around with CBs and it all falls apart pretty quick.

Interesting the CP let them continue. I canít say mine would have, on the ground please let the engineers deal with it sort of comes to mind.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 04:31
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Originally Posted by galdian View Post
As now pretty much retired don't have the NNC in front of me, last I knew in the intro - and only in the intro - it discussed CB's.
Generally one reset of a tripped CB was permitted.
No reset of a fuel CB was permitted.
Cannot remember if fuel CB was part specific (eg FUEL PUMPS) or the fuel system in general.
Apologies if procedural changes in the last couple of years.
Cheers.

And be reasonable - BuzzBox was talking SOP about non-737 aircraft, maybe interesting but not relevant.
And "reset table"? Never heard of such a thing on 737. Comment was in reference to 737 SOP (maybe company SOP) I assume?

The standard Boeing spiel says:
In flight, flight crew reset of a tripped circuit breaker is not recommended. However, a tripped circuit breaker may be reset once, after a short cooling period (approximately 2 minutes), if in the judgment of the Commander, the situation resulting from the circuit breaker trip has a significant adverse effect on safety.
However, our Ops Manual specifically prohibited the resetting of a tripped CB in-flight.

Airbus aircraft have a reset panel on the overhead panel with 'buttons' that can be used to reset various systems after consulting the QRH. Hence the 'reset table'.
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