Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Qantas $1.83 Billion Loss FY20/21

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas $1.83 Billion Loss FY20/21

Old 26th Aug 2021, 13:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
Posts: 1,013
Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
That's not correct. The Fair Work Ombudsman ruling on paid leave is quite clear;

Source
Yeah, so if I was getting paid an amount for a fortnight's annual leave that I opted to take when I was stood down, QF used the 1500 reducing to 1200 then 1000 to subsidise that and had to pay me the rest, so they saved up to $1500 for the fortnight. That's an employee entitlement which the company has to fund anyway so the government subsidised my leave.

If I was at work, QF kept the money and used it to subsidise my salary as my salary was in excess of Jobkeeper.

If I took no leave and was on stand down I got the full amount and QF got nothing.

Jobkeeper was a massive fillip to employers as they kept most of it, unless their staff were on unpaid stand down in which case it was handed directly to the employee via payroll. Provided they had the cash, the best outcome for employers at the time was that staff were stood down but taking their leave to supplement their income as they were getting vast quantities of leave liabilities off the books subsidised heavily by the federal government. Nice work if you can get it.

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 26th Aug 2021 at 13:23.
DirectAnywhere is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 13:19
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 571
Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere View Post
Yeah, so if I was getting paid an amount for a fortnight's annual leave that I opted to take when I was stood down, QF used the 1500 reducing to 1200 then 1000 to subsidise that and had to pay me the rest, so they saved up to $1500 for the fortnight. That's an employee entitlement which the company would have to fund if it went bust tomorrow so the government subsidised my leave.

If I was at work, QF kept the money as my salary was in excess of Jobkeeper.

If I took no leave and was on stand down I got the full amount and QF got nothing.

Jobkeeper was a massive fillip to employers as they kept most of it, unless their staff were on unpaid stand down in which case it was handed directly to the employee via payroll.
And how many QF staff were on unpaid stand down?
MickG0105 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 13:38
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
Posts: 1,013
Lots, mainly operational staff as I'm sure you're aware, but many of them were taking leave, and many staff weren't stood down. So, for those staff not stood down, if their salary was greater than 1000-1500 per fortnight, depending on the value of Jobkeeper at the time, QF kept the lot and paid those staff not stood down as normal.

Those staff taking leave had the cost of their leave to QF subsidised.

I'm not saying QF got the entire 588 million but they would have kept a pretty fair chunk of it and it's a falsehood to suggest that it went "directly in to the hands of employees".

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 26th Aug 2021 at 13:57.
DirectAnywhere is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 13:57
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 571
Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere View Post
Lots, mainly operational staff as I'm sure you're aware, but many of them were taking leave, and many staff weren't stood down. So, if their salary was greater than 1000-1500 per fortnight, depending on the value of Jobkeeper at the time, QF kept the lot and pad staff not stood down as normal.

I'm not saying QF got the entire 588 million but they would have kept a pretty fair chunk of it and it's a falsehood to suggest that it went "directly in to the hands of employees".
Fair enough. Call it 50-50 then, Qantas benefited by around $294 million out of JobKeeper. Small consolation given that government restrictions blew a $15 billion smoking hole in their revenue.
MickG0105 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 13:59
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
Posts: 1,013
Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
Fair enough. Call it 50-50 then, Qantas benefited by around $294 million out of JobKeeper. Small consolation given that government restrictions blew a $15 billion smoking hole in their revenue.
Oh yeah, absolutely no doubt about that. Itís small bickies indeed in the context of the last couple of years.
DirectAnywhere is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 15:56
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NSW
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere View Post
Yeah, so if I was getting paid an amount for a fortnight's annual leave that I opted to take when I was stood down, QF used the 1500 reducing to 1200 then 1000 to subsidise that and had to pay me the rest, so they saved up to $1500 for the fortnight. That's an employee entitlement which the company has to fund anyway so the government subsidised my leave.

If I was at work, QF kept the money and used it to subsidise my salary as my salary was in excess of Jobkeeper.

If I took no leave and was on stand down I got the full amount and QF got nothing.

Jobkeeper was a massive fillip to employers as they kept most of it, unless their staff were on unpaid stand down in which case it was handed directly to the employee via payroll. Provided they had the cash, the best outcome for employers at the time was that staff were stood down but taking their leave to supplement their income as they were getting vast quantities of leave liabilities off the books subsidised heavily by the federal government. Nice work if you can get it.
If you can scrape by on job keeper why would you take leave? I sure haven't. I'll keep the leave and take the job keeper thank you. Doesn't even come close to the amount of tax that i've paid last year. Different story if you can't make job keeper cover your expenses with kid's etc. I'm fortunate that I don't have that and my partner in a different industry also gets job keeper. I'm sure companies would keep every cent if they could.
cLeArIcE is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 22:00
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alaska
Posts: 181
Danger

Originally Posted by cLeArIcE View Post
If you can scrape by on job keeper why would you take leave? I sure haven't. I'll keep the leave and take the job keeper thank you. Doesn't even come close to the amount of tax that i've paid last year. Different story if you can't make job keeper cover your expenses with kid's etc. I'm fortunate that I don't have that and my partner in a different industry also gets job keeper. I'm sure companies would keep every cent if they could.
It sounds great till you scratch the surface , but using up leave can be advantageous as well, more than likely on a lower tax bracket for the year , so leave is worth more in the hand. Paying off any debt faster is a major advantage.
Storing up leave is not such a good idea if your company goes bankrupt . A happy medium is whatís required.
Rabbitwear is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 22:21
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
They blew through $1.3 billion of their cash but only added $137 million in interest bearing liabilities. Net debt is up by $1.2 billion to $5.9 billion, which is approaching the upper bound of their target debt range.

They start this current FY with $2.2 billion in cash and $1.58 billion in undrawn facilities for a liquidity position of $3.8 billion, down by only $724 million on the previous year. Not great, not terrible to borrow a line.

Given that revenue was down by $12 billion last FY they've managed this pretty well to date. Given their current position they could certainly manage their way through another year like the last one.
MickG0105 I do love that you quoted a now infamous line from Chernobyl, in the context of understating a disaster.

Seriously, though, thanks for the concise summary and snapshot of QF's financial position.
uberrobbo is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 22:26
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 626
Originally Posted by Rabbitwear View Post
It sounds great till you scratch the surface , but using up leave can be advantageous as well, more than likely on a lower tax bracket for the year , so leave is worth more in the hand. Paying off any debt faster is a major advantage.
Storing up leave is not such a good idea if your company goes bankrupt . A happy medium is whatís required.
I used my secondary employment and jobkeeper to get by to preserve my leave and maximize jobkeeper. Now that the IRP is an extra payment Iím using up my leave to pay down debt. So Iím getting paid from leave, IRP and secondary employment so itís all pretty good at the moment - the only problem is leave (and IRP) is a finite resourceÖ

About to run out of AL, LSL at half rate should see me to March 22. Hopefully thereíll be some better news by then.

Last edited by ruprecht; 26th Aug 2021 at 22:37.
ruprecht is online now  
Old 26th Aug 2021, 22:56
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
A330 BNE-LAX and SFO

Anyone notice in the results presentation that A330 to operate BNE to US West Coast? Interesting.
DBMeridien is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2021, 00:38
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: MEL
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by DBMeridien View Post
Anyone notice in the results presentation that A330 to operate BNE to US West Coast? Interesting.
Yes, noticed that Executive Traveller picked that up, apparently QF working with Airbus to extend the A330s MTOW to a level which was not available when the QF A330-200s entered service: https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...-san-francisco
MelbourneFlyer is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2021, 00:39
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: MEL
Posts: 178
Story here on QF exec payments for FY21: https://www.smh.com.au/national/qant...26-p58mas.html

While the airline will make us wait until September for the full executive pay breakdown, company reps revealed that pay for senior executives over the past financial year was down 70 per cent on pre-pandemic levels. Oh, and annual bonuses had been cancelled. Again. The board took reduced fees while some members of the executive team accepted payment in Qantas shares rather than cash.
MelbourneFlyer is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.