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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:03
  #621 (permalink)  
 
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43inches and Megan -

Abstract

Although several clinical trials are now underway to test possible therapies, the worldwide response to the COVID-19 outbreak has been largely limited to monitoring/containment. We report here that Ivermectin, an FDA-approved anti-parasitic previously shown to have broad-spectrum anti-viral activity in vitro, is an inhibitor of the causative virus (SARS-CoV-2), with a single addition to Vero-hSLAM cells 2 h post infection with SARS-CoV-2 able to effect ~5000-fold reduction in viral RNA at 48 h. Ivermectin therefore warrants further investigation for possible benefits in humans.

1. Introduction

Ivermectin is an FDA-approved broad spectrum anti-parasitic agent (Gonzalez Canga et al., 2008) that in recent years we, along with other groups, have shown to have anti-viral activity against a broad range of viruses (Gotz et al., 2016; Lundberg et al., 2013; Tay et al., 2013; Wagstaff et al., 2012) in vitro. Originally identified as an inhibitor of interaction between the human immunodeficiency virus-1 (HIV-1) integrase protein (IN) and the importin (IMP) α/β1 heterodimer responsible for IN nuclear import (Wagstaff et al., 2011), Ivermectin has since been confirmed to inhibit IN nuclear import and HIV-1 replication (Wagstaff et al., 2012). Other actions of ivermectin have been reported (Mastrangelo et al., 2012), but ivermectin has been shown to inhibit nuclear import of host (eg. (Kosyna et al., 2015; van der Watt et al., 2016)) and viral proteins, including simian virus SV40 large tumour antigen (T-ag) and dengue virus (DENV) non-structural protein 5 (Wagstaff et al., 2012, Wagstaff et al., 2011). Importantly, it has been demonstrated to limit infection by RNA viruses such as DENV 1-4 (Tay et al., 2013), West Nile Virus (Yang et al., 2020), Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus (VEEV) (Lundberg et al., 2013) and influenza (Gotz et al., 2016), with this broad spectrum activity believed to be due to the reliance by many different RNA viruses on IMPα/β1 during infection (Caly et al., 2012; Jans et al., 2019). Ivermectin has similarly been shown to be effective against the DNA virus pseudorabies virus (PRV) both in vitro and in vivo, with ivermectin treatment shown to increase survival in PRV-infected mice (Lv et al., 2018). Efficacy was not observed for ivermectin against Zika virus (ZIKV) in mice, but the authors acknowledged that study limitations justified re-evaluation of ivermectin's anti-ZIKV activity (Ketkar et al., 2019). Finally, ivermectin was the focus of a phase III clinical trial in Thailand in 2014–2017, against DENV infection, in which a single daily oral dose was observed to be safe and resulted in a significant reduction in serum levels of viral NS1 protein, but no change in viremia or clinical benefit was observed (see below) (Yamasmith et al., 2018).

^^^^^
Worthy of further research wouldn't you say?

Wouldn't be the first time in history that one drug had amazing cross purpose usage. Lol even another small drug company, what is it called?- oh that's right Pfizer came up with something called Viagra - The sildenafil compound was originally developed by Pfizer for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure) and angina pectoris (chest pain due to heart disease). During the heart clinical trials, researchers discovered that the drug was more effective at inducing erections than treating angina.

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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:09
  #622 (permalink)  
 
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Can you agree on the fact that people who got infected and recovered from Covid-19 have some form of protection as you call it?
Can you consider that protection after natural infection could be better than after vaccination?
No protection is perfect, certainly not the one offered by vaccination against this zoonotic constantly mutating coronavirus.
Why would anyone want to mandate vaccination for those who already recovered?
Many countries did actually assume process of immunity through infection was good 1 year ago, that's not the case now, with general consensus being that it's either the same or slightly less than vaccinated immunity. Now most countries that accept covid exposure immunity limit its use out to 6 months from recovery, Germany is moving to make those that want to remain un-vaccinated prove at their own cost they are active virus free, paying for their own tests. Being 'vaccinated' in Germany means full course of vaccination + 15 days or recovered from covid and within 6 months, otherwise you can not attend indoor public settings without a self paid covid free test result within 48 hours. I use German rules as an example as they have some clear cut rules about covid vaccination status. That will most likely become the norm, either get vaccinated or pay for tests to be an active member of society. Vaccination status is an easy way to monitor the coverage of ones protection level, and is a lot cheaper than constant testing.

Worthy of further research wouldn't you say?
I've already given plenty of reasons why Ivermectin is wrong for this, as it may have some affect, but its drawbacks are too great for the dosage required. I could cure your Covid affliction with a swift hammer to the cranium, you would die, the virus would then die as it has no live feed to survive on, Covid eradicated. Like I gave the wolf example earlier, they are the doctors of the wild by being lazy hunters and preying on the sick and weak, which strengthens the herds by killing off the sick before they can infect others. Your treatment has to have tangible benefits over the side effects, which at the dosage required is not clear. Anyway there has already been one patient in Sydney with Ivermectin poisoning, who would have had no issues with covid had he just rested for the time he had it, so the stupid is still out there.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:30
  #623 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
43inches and Megan -

Abstract

Although several clinical trials are now underway to test possible therapies, the worldwide response to the COVID-19 outbreak has been largely limited to monitoring/containment. We report here that Ivermectin, an FDA-approved anti-parasitic previously shown to have broad-spectrum anti-viral activity in vitro, is an inhibitor of the causative virus (SARS-CoV-2), with a single addition to Vero-hSLAM cells 2 h post infection with SARS-CoV-2 able to effect ~5000-fold reduction in viral RNA at 48 h. Ivermectin therefore warrants further investigation for possible benefits in humans.

1. Introduction

Ivermectin is an FDA-approved broad spectrum anti-parasitic agent (Gonzalez Canga et al., 2008) that in recent years we, along with other groups, have shown to have anti-viral activity against a broad range of viruses (Gotz et al., 2016; Lundberg et al., 2013; Tay et al., 2013; Wagstaff et al., 2012) in vitro. Originally identified as an inhibitor of interaction between the human immunodeficiency virus-1 (HIV-1) integrase protein (IN) and the importin (IMP) α/β1 heterodimer responsible for IN nuclear import (Wagstaff et al., 2011), Ivermectin has since been confirmed to inhibit IN nuclear import and HIV-1 replication (Wagstaff et al., 2012). Other actions of ivermectin have been reported (Mastrangelo et al., 2012), but ivermectin has been shown to inhibit nuclear import of host (eg. (Kosyna et al., 2015; van der Watt et al., 2016)) and viral proteins, including simian virus SV40 large tumour antigen (T-ag) and dengue virus (DENV) non-structural protein 5 (Wagstaff et al., 2012, Wagstaff et al., 2011). Importantly, it has been demonstrated to limit infection by RNA viruses such as DENV 1-4 (Tay et al., 2013), West Nile Virus (Yang et al., 2020), Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus (VEEV) (Lundberg et al., 2013) and influenza (Gotz et al., 2016), with this broad spectrum activity believed to be due to the reliance by many different RNA viruses on IMPα/β1 during infection (Caly et al., 2012; Jans et al., 2019). Ivermectin has similarly been shown to be effective against the DNA virus pseudorabies virus (PRV) both in vitro and in vivo, with ivermectin treatment shown to increase survival in PRV-infected mice (Lv et al., 2018). Efficacy was not observed for ivermectin against Zika virus (ZIKV) in mice, but the authors acknowledged that study limitations justified re-evaluation of ivermectin's anti-ZIKV activity (Ketkar et al., 2019). Finally, ivermectin was the focus of a phase III clinical trial in Thailand in 2014–2017, against DENV infection, in which a single daily oral dose was observed to be safe and resulted in a significant reduction in serum levels of viral NS1 protein, but no change in viremia or clinical benefit was observed (see below) (Yamasmith et al., 2018).

^^^^^
Worthy of further research wouldn't you say?

Wouldn't be the first time in history that one drug had amazing cross purpose usage. Lol even another small drug company, what is it called?- oh that's right Pfizer came up with something called Viagra - The sildenafil compound was originally developed by Pfizer for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure) and angina pectoris (chest pain due to heart disease). During the heart clinical trials, researchers discovered that the drug was more effective at inducing erections than treating angina.
Are you volunteering? Go on be the Guinean pig.
Apparently it works well as suppository too.

from the SMH today

Of the 11 people who died, one was in their 40s, one in their 50s, two in their 60s, three in their 70s, three in their 80s, and one in their 90s.
Nine were unvaccinated, with two having received one dose.

Are you prepared to die to prove a point? A point that’s already buried thousands that believe vaccination doesn’t work. Good luck, you’ll need it.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:42
  #624 (permalink)  
 
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It is just a lost cause, fully vaccinated people only account for 0.5% of the deaths from COVID in the UK and 1% in the USA, if those figures aren’t enough for people to use the vaccine then nothing will and they are betting their lives on uneducated opinions of self-taught experts and conspiracy theorists….. good luck to you.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:48
  #625 (permalink)  
 
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43 Inches - Seriously - you are very lax with your facts, and this -
I could cure your Covid affliction with a swift hammer to the cranium, you would die, the virus would then die as it has no live feed to survive on, Covid eradicated. Like I gave the wolf example earlier, they are the doctors of the wild by being lazy hunters and preying on the sick and weak, which strengthens the herds by killing off the sick before they can infect others. Your treatment has to have tangible benefits over the side effects, which at the dosage required is not clear. Anyway there has already been one patient in Sydney with Ivermectin poisoning, who would have had no issues with covid had he just rested for the time he had it, so the stupid is still out there.
- seriously - I produced a scientific paper excerpt and you talk about hitting people in the head with a hammer. Pathetic


Too Believer -
Are you volunteering? Go on be the Guinean pig.
Apparently it works well as suppository too.

from the SMH today

Of the 11 people who died, one was in their 40s, one in their 50s, two in their 60s, three in their 70s, three in their 80s, and one in their 90s.
Nine were unvaccinated, with two having received one dose.

Are you prepared to die to prove a point? A point that’s already buried thousands that believe vaccination doesn’t work. Good luck, you’ll need it.
What is a Guinean pig? What is your point?

Are you prepared to die to prove a point? A point that’s already buried thousands that believe vaccination doesn’t work
WTF are you on about. Where did I ever say anything about Vaccinations not working? You seem very sensitive, and emotional, it is affecting your ability to have critical thought.

Why aren't you mentioning this in your selected media quote of today's casualties - Two people had received one dose and NSW Health says at least eight had underlying medical conditions.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:49
  #626 (permalink)  
 
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As long as testing remains an alternative measure to vaccination, I'm fine.
Without saying where you live it means nothing as you could be just plain BS, it's not as though we are going to come scour your country looking for you. As well as knowing how your country is fairing in it's fight vs covid, having one opinion when every around you is dieing means just about nothing as the point of vaccination is a community effort to reduce the effects.

Here is good note to read on why natural immunity and vaccines work together.

http://corona-report-2020-mz.s3-webs...k-TOGETHER.pdf
Unfortunately that is very poorly written and immunity through natural process is not always guranteed. Dengue fever has 4 separate prevalent strains that use each strains markers to 'back door' the human immune system so that each time you get dengue it gets worse and worse. So to say that naturally occurring immunity is best is dependent on each virus/disease and individual. There's thousands of examples of things you are much better being vaccinated for or apply a prophylaxis than having to go through to immunise yourself.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:58
  #627 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe this thread is approaching the end of its useful life ?
Its obvious some are never ever going to be convinced.
Hopefully when we open up at 80% vaccination levels a lot of the BS will subside of its own accord.
Natural selection is a wonderful thing.
And it increases the average IQ !
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 09:05
  #628 (permalink)  
 
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43 Inches - Seriously - you are very lax with your facts, and this -
Quote:
I could cure your Covid affliction with a swift hammer to the cranium, you would die, the virus would then die as it has no live feed to survive on, Covid eradicated. Like I gave the wolf example earlier, they are the doctors of the wild by being lazy hunters and preying on the sick and weak, which strengthens the herds by killing off the sick before they can infect others. Your treatment has to have tangible benefits over the side effects, which at the dosage required is not clear. Anyway there has already been one patient in Sydney with Ivermectin poisoning, who would have had no issues with covid had he just rested for the time he had it, so the stupid is still out there.
- seriously - I produced a scientific paper excerpt and you talk about hitting people in the head with a hammer. Pathetic
I'm treating you as you should be, a joke in itself, sorry but you consistent insisting that Ivermectin is some wonder drug for covid has passed it's used by date and you can see most here have had enough of it. When it comes out we are wrong come back and debate it, but spreading it to the other dumbasses so they fill up hospital wards in the meantime because they are taking it without prescription is all you are achieving.

I suggest if you are that genuine in your Ivermectin belief that you take it to a medical forum as spruiking it's usefulness to pilots is a complete waste of time.

The thread is about getting vaccinated and whether Qantas should have mandated it. Ivermectin means nada to it as it will neither help resolve the issue of mandatory vaccination or lead to lifted restrictions on us flying.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 09:33
  #629 (permalink)  
 
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It's your own opinion... but maybe you should stop comparing SARS-CoV-2 to dengue fever or tetanus then.
Well you started by providing a generic document that only talks about immunity in general. It was not aimed at Covid, so I provided a response that was similarly based. Like I said it was poorly written so if it was aimed at covid immune responses it definitely does not say so.

There's some interesting stat anomalies in the middle east, with UAE stating 750,000 cases and only 2000 deaths, yet next door in Yemen it's 9000 cases for 1700 deaths. UAE death rate seems incredibly low for the case numbers, similar to Kuwait, then Saudi and Iraq have normal rates comparable to other nations. The UAE stands out as something is wrong in the recording of cases or deaths, maybe there is some 'natural immunity' happening.

Last edited by 43Inches; 25th Sep 2021 at 09:54.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 10:47
  #630 (permalink)  
 
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I'd say that the Yemeni case numbers are actually much much higher. I can't image their testing regime to be comprehensive.

As for UAE - they are pretty strict on mask wearing and from my visits there over the last 18 months, pretty COVID safe aware in general. Added of course COVID doesn't like the heat. More than one expat there I have talked to believes the numbers to be much higher. They were also vaxing workers early on - just when Delta was getting a hold on things, courtesy of Europeans escaping the winter. Interestingly the UAE case / death ratio is pretty much the same for Spoiler's Qatar. One death for nearly 400 reported cases.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 11:06
  #631 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Well you started by providing a generic document that only talks about immunity in general. It was not aimed at Covid, so I provided a response that was similarly based. Like I said it was poorly written so if it was aimed at covid immune responses it definitely does not say so.

There's some interesting stat anomalies in the middle east, with UAE stating 750,000 cases and only 2000 deaths, yet next door in Yemen it's 9000 cases for 1700 deaths. UAE death rate seems incredibly low for the case numbers, similar to Kuwait, then Saudi and Iraq have normal rates comparable to other nations. The UAE stands out as something is wrong in the recording of cases or deaths, maybe there is some 'natural immunity' happening.
confirmation bias reigns supreme with you. I’ll go with the CDC’s recommendations.
To put it into context, it’s like telling an average Joe pilot NASA is wrong. Yeah right.
from The CDC
https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00449.asp

Clinical trials and observational studies to evaluate the use of ivermectin to prevent and treat COVID-19 in humans have yielded insufficient evidence for the NIH COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel to recommend its use. Data from adequately sized, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19.A recent study examining trends in ivermectin dispensing from outpatient retail pharmacies in the United States during the COVID-19 pandemic showed an increase from an average of 3,600 prescriptions per week at the pre-pandemic baseline (March 16, 2019–March 13, 2020) to a peak of 39,000 prescriptions in the week ending on January 8, 2021.1 Since early July 2021, outpatient ivermectin dispensing has again begun to rapidly increase, reaching more than 88,000 prescriptions in the week ending August 13, 2021. This represents a 24-fold increase from the pre-pandemic baseline.
In some cases, people have ingested ivermectin-containing products purchased without a prescription, including topical formulations and veterinary products. Veterinary formulations intended for use in large animals such as horses, sheep, and cattle (e.g., “sheep drench,” injection formulations, and “pour-on” products for cattle) can be highly concentrated and result in overdoses when used by humans. Animal products may also contain inactive ingredients that have not been evaluated for use in humans. People who take inappropriately high doses of ivermectin above FDA-recommended dosing may experience toxic effects.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 11:18
  #632 (permalink)  
 
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I think you might have miss clicked there, that comment was nothing to do with Ivermectin, it was about vaccinated vs exposure based immunity.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 11:18
  #633 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Well you started by providing a generic document that only talks about immunity in general. It was not aimed at Covid, so I provided a response that was similarly based. Like I said it was poorly written so if it was aimed at covid immune responses it definitely does not say so.

There's some interesting stat anomalies in the middle east, with UAE stating 750,000 cases and only 2000 deaths, yet next door in Yemen it's 9000 cases for 1700 deaths. UAE death rate seems incredibly low for the case numbers, similar to Kuwait, then Saudi and Iraq have normal rates comparable to other nations. The UAE stands out as something is wrong in the recording of cases or deaths, maybe there is some 'natural immunity' happening.
I think the UAE has a far higher testing rate than most other places in the world. They are making over 100000 tests a day. Every arriving pax at the airport gets tested. Every pax leaving gets tested. Anyone with any symptoms gets tested. If you are non vaccinated and are working, you get tested every 72hrs etc etc.
They also built pop up hospitals to handle any infected, so have a far higher iCU bed availability than most other places as well. Vaccinated rate per population is very high. And Vaccination started earlier than most other parts.
So all of that explains the high positive test rate vs death rate.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 11:28
  #634 (permalink)  
 
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Also it seems that exposure to MERs may have offered some exposure based immunity in some way. Even so Australia is far from being a medical backwater and way off being overwhelmed and yet we are still seeing over 1% death rate as the toll starts to catch up with the case numbers, especially in Sydney now. Death rate seems to follow a few weeks behind case number climbs, which is what we are seeing in Sydney now.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 11:56
  #635 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Also it seems that exposure to MERs may have offered some exposure based immunity in some way. Even so Australia is far from being a medical backwater and way off being overwhelmed and yet we are still seeing over 1% death rate as the toll starts to catch up with the case numbers, especially in Sydney now. Death rate seems to follow a few weeks behind case number climbs, which is what we are seeing in Sydney now.
Your patience with some of these people astounds me!
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 12:41
  #636 (permalink)  
 
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The new data on natural immunity is worth a law case or two (all be it reported by Yahoo)

Now, this is based on new studies that are tending to show that natural immunity is as good or better than immunity by vaccination, and research are also-- researchers are also finding in these studies that natural immunity paired with vaccination may be even more robust.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/proo...145028930.html

Please read all and see what I underlined.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 12:51
  #637 (permalink)  
 
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Also this for a recent read - data 12 months after infection.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03696-9
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 13:14
  #638 (permalink)  
 
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Bend a lot, no one cares, I don’t know where you live or work but the standard in Australia and with Qantas is a double vaccine. No one cares if someone has already had Covid, they are still expected to get the two jabs if they want to work for Qantas. By your own study links above there is no harm in getting the vaccine after infection, it may even be more robust. So to pivot back to the topic, to work for Qantas you have to get two jabs…. End of.

Also the Yahoo article clearly states that the legal challenges in the USA are only able to be carried out due to them arguing the Universities in question are Government Agencies, it clearly says that if you work for a private company those companies have much greater legal power to enforce vaccine mandates.

now, in the future it may be that a previous Covid infection may be treated the same but for the short term in Australia it isn’t and people have to work with that.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 22:39
  #639 (permalink)  
 
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Bend a lot’s moniker is appropriate as they certainly bend a lot things. Things like facts, rational thought, credibility, patience etc. Feel free to add to the list.
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Old 26th Sep 2021, 02:01
  #640 (permalink)  
 
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Good to see how the rest of the world is doing -

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...emic/100466286
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