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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 24th Sep 2021, 10:57
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
So Bendalot, how do you get natural immunity? If everyone says let’s get natural immunity then what happens when 70% of the population who are unvaccinated get Covid? Sure they may end up with natural immunity but the hospital system will break under the pressure and thousands will die. It never ceases to amaze me when people say, ‘instead of getting a proven and safe vaccine I will get covid, risk life long complications and take a horse anti-parasitic as my Facebook mates say it helps even though all the medical studies say it doesn’t! The reason you don’t see governments talking about natural immunity is because it is the dumbest idea that the anti ax brigade have pushed yet, right up their with horse medicine and injecting bleach….. but hey, you do you.
You are aware many countries allow internal and external travel on COVID passports and they have 3 compliance options?

Vaccinated proof , previous proof of infection & negative test within X hours.

Nor have I ever claimed or stated your other rubbish comment claims.( for the record)
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 11:48
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
Wasn't it the deep state pedos last month? I thought it was the lizard lords turn.
But it's so hard to keep up without knowing the true priority order of approved news services. Is it Tik tok, Facebook and then YouTube? Or does YouTube come first?

But yes, it is a huge conspiracy. I can't believe it got out. It all started when Rockefeller tried to stop snake oil salesman and the FDA type organisation was born. It's been a slow burner ever since but now it's time for all big pharma companies to start micro chipping adults and eating the children. Well, as we know, it's all big pharma companies except Merck, as they make the wonder drug. They are keeping its efficacy secret from the masses though, as they would prefer to miss out on profits and just save the select few.
Look for a new establishment in Guyana, maybe could be called Jonestown. For the chosen few who see the real truth only, obviously.
if I told you for example that people who believe that the earth was flat once ruled the world or that hundreds of women were burned as a result of witch-hunt or that for example people were put on a train and sent to a camp where they were gassed to death than you would call me conspiracy theorist.

History has proven that humans and governments managed to do things that no one though was possible. People that rang the alarm bells back than were often ridiculed and laughed at!

maybe the vaccine is the best thing ever and you may live 200 years or maybe not. But believe me this global plandemic is not primary to save your health. It has to do with something more important… = money and power.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 13:00
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Congratulations union.
Combining so many logical fallacies in one post is quite an achievement.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 03:44
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Ivermectin, was developed as an anti-parasitic for humans.
One of the conditions for the EDA approval of the vaccines in the US - was that there were no treatments for Covid.
That argument is out of date now, especially in regards to Pfizer which has full FDA approval since August. The EDA was only as a small portion of testing obviously had to be fast tracked. So Pfizer and Ivermectim have exactly the same approval now for use in their field. AZ has no market in the US so is not seeking any approval there.

Once again Ivermectin has very bad side effects for humans in large doses, including the chance of birth defects, no FDA or EDA approved covid vaccine has that issue. You can actually overdose on covid vaccine and not really suffer much, as was proven early as a number of people have got several times the dose. It just doesn't achieve anything beyond the recommended doses. The reason for two doses in some vaccines is a function of how the immune system responds, not the body not being able to handle double the dose at once.]

By the by, Astra Zeneca is just completing studies into a promising prostate cancer treatment, but of course you anti vaxxers better just get the whole area chopped off rather than taking pills for it. That would be better for you, and humanity.

Last edited by 43Inches; 25th Sep 2021 at 03:55.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 04:13
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It has to do with something more important… = money and power
Fully agree with you. If we all refused the vax we'd all die and big pharma wouldn't have a market, or be able to make profits, and there'd be nobody to have power over.
I believe natural immunity if way more effective than the vaccines out there
Only trouble is that in attempting to gain natural immunity you run a very high risk of dying, or being left with a debilitating condition.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 04:35
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Union,

You are right, in the future when people look back on this Pandemic and other world events such as the Trump presidency they will marvel in the ease at which people were manipulated into crackpot ideas just because some dude on Facebook who had hours of research behind him told them too. I mean the logic is astounding, take a researched, trialled and approved vaccine with very few side effects or risk contracting a virus with a much higher risk of death, complications and life long health issues. As I keep saying it is your choice, but be prepared to be segregated from normal society, if you work for Qantas or Air New Zealand then enjoy your new careers as well, I hope you are happy in your new roles.

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Old 25th Sep 2021, 04:38
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I believe natural immunity if way more effective than the vaccines out there
And again complete miss-understanding of how a vaccine works. Vaccine activates YOUR OWN immune system so it can identify the virus when it first enters your body, therefore you are ready to fight it. Hence a vaccine is no use as a treatment, because once you already have the virus it's too late to WARN your immune system what's coming.

If you are not vaccinated, your first encounter with the virus your immune system will first investigate what is happening (taking time while the virus takes hold) and then manufacture a response (antigens). Your body then is taken by supprise by the virus.

After you are exposed to the virus or have been given a vaccine your body will produce it's own natural antigens that circle your body ready for any repeat invasion by the virus. This protection does wear off over time with some virus, like covid and the body needs to be reminded to stay vigilant, hence booster requirements. There are always times you may come in contact with small amounts of virus that also train your immune system without taking over, hence why antigen testing will pick up many people that have been exposed but never had much infection. Up until recently those old enough were still carrying antigens to the 1920s flu, not many of those still alive though. The later is how snake trainers build up resistance to snake venoms, but it takes time and repeat occurances.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 04:52
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43 inchies
That argument is out of date now
There was no argument. I was merely pointing out another poster's erroneous suggestion that Ivermectin was developed as a Horse deworming product. It was not.

And you seem to have this thing about the vaccines, and ivermectin. They are not the same thing. Ivermectin is being theorised as a possible treatment, not as a vaccination. The two are completely different. And it is irrelevant that Pfizer has been granted federal approval now. The fact remains that, when it was first introduced, it was done so under emergency approval regs.

Currently, irrespective of whether you are vaccinated or not, If you catch covid, and become very sick at home, and call your GP, there is no allowable treatment for the disease. GPs are not allowed to treat the disease. You will only be provided treatments upon admission to a hospital.

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Old 25th Sep 2021, 05:04
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And you seem to have this thing about the vaccines, and ivermectin. They are not the same thing. Ivermectin is being theorised as a possible treatment, not as a vaccination. The two are completely different. And it is irrelevant that Pfizer has been granted federal approval now. The fact remains that, when it was first introduced, it was done so under emergency approval regs.
Because I know how both work, and the reason why Ivermectin is a bad idea. Again the only testing done for Ivermectin that involved pregnancy was in animals ended up with possibilities of birth defects, it has similar mechanism to folidamide. The testing never went to human stage as a result which is why the company has a blanket warning for use by pregnant women.

Ivermectin is a poison, it is designed to interfere with living organism and in the case of worms, nematodes etc, kill them or knock them out so they pass out of the body. So yes, Ivermectin will kill anything in enough dosage, even covid, however it will also start to kill/affect the host as well once the dosage reaches a certain point. Because it is designed to focus also on foreign bodies it can also cause problem for developing fetus as it can cause a reaction that sees it as a foreign object or a worm. This all comes down to complex immune response issues that happen during pregnancy to prevent the womans body from rejecting the developing fetus. Ivermectin is effectively like Round-up for parasites. It's being tested because there may be some way of using it, but not in its present form.

Vaccines are designed to act as a specific target for you immune system to train it to attack similar things, ie virus cells. So they pose no risk to anything outside of that area, hence they have been deemed safe for pregnancy etc.

Now as far as Ivermectin as a prophylaxis, you would have to know you were just about to get covid for it to have any effect. Once you have detectable replication of the virus it has negligible effect to control what happens next. You can't continuously take this drug to maintain some form of protection as it will have some serious side effects as the doses build up.

One has to remember that in a lot of countries a large proportion of the population already take Ivermectin for worm control, and that does not seem to be having any effect on covid spread or severity in nations that use it regularly vs those that don't.

PS My description of how Ivermectin works is extremely dumbed down.

Last edited by 43Inches; 25th Sep 2021 at 05:43.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 05:46
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And you seem to have this thing about the vaccines, and ivermectin. They are not the same thing. Ivermectin is being theorised as a possible treatment, not as a vaccination. The two are completely different. And it is irrelevant that Pfizer has been granted federal approval now. The fact remains that, when it was first introduced, it was done so under emergency approval regs.
The issue being that many are seeing Ivermectin as an alternative to vaccinating. It is also not an effective treatment, it has been only shown some effect as a Prophylaxis, which means prevention.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 06:04
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Back to the thread after some really pathetic comments from the “It’s my right” and anti vaccination idiots.

After having endured some serious soul searching low periods in the last 18 months, like most of us. Being locked up at home or Howard ****in Springs or hotel for days or weeks on end (yes I’m lucky to be back flying I know), I’ll find it particularly insulting that some antivaxx pilot sits next to me on the flight deck and dares utter one word on the subject. We haven’t come this far to white ant ourselves in the name of individual rights, that incidentally, don’t exist in this case. One in all in. Welcome to being a human being.

If that particular pilot or flight attendant craps on with their idiotic sh t then one of us won’t be flying and it won’t be me. Don’t even entertain the thought. The vast majority are not remotely interested in your fringe beliefs. We’ve done it tough. Our families have done it even tougher. So don’t expect some woke sympathy for your misguided, ill informed, ignorant, self serving, ideological clap trap. Grow up, get vaccinated and stop behaving like petulant, argumentative children otherwise, in the words of Alan Joyce, “Aviation isn’t for you”.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 06:16
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Spot on , with rights comes responsibility . Some people demanding their rights but shirking their responsibilities.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 06:59
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Originally Posted by spoiler77 View Post
if you had read my post, you maybe would have understood that i already gained natural immunity (i'm not chasing it nor suggesting that others should).
I also said that natural immunity and vaccination work together in this fight against covid-19.
The only point i'm trying to make here is that many people already had covid-19 and gained natural immunity, those don't need vaccination right now.
Hence, mandating vaccination for all, treating those who recovered that are unvaccinated but immunized as anti-vaxxers is a nonsense.



Thank you for trying to explain but i very well understand how vaccines work.
When i say that natural immunity is more effective, i'm not trying to imply people should refuse vaccination and gently wait to get the disease.
What i'm trying to say is that many people, like me, already had covid-19 and that natural immunity gained by natural infection is great, and in my humble opinion way more effective than immunity gained by vaccination.
Hence, mandating vaccination for all, treating those who recovered that are unvaccinated but immunized as anti-vaxxers is a nonsense.

20 months have passed since i recovered from covid-19, i got tested every single week since and all results came back negative, i recently tested my level of antibodies against sars-cov-2 and still have plenty.
In the mean time, some vaccinated people still test positive to covid-19 with a quite high quantity of virus, and 6-8 months after initial vaccination already need to take a booster shot because of vanishing level of antibodies.

That's simply my own experience/observation/feedback and i'm quite confident of not being in danger or a danger for others right now without being vaccinated.
I feel sorry for those who cannot hear it.
really good response…..but good luck trying to get this message across….people are pretty [email protected] up !
The vaccin doesn’t work, it’s a fact…..we only have to look at data.


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Old 25th Sep 2021, 07:05
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There is no such thing as natural immunity, you are either immune or not, having antibodies in your systems just means you have been exposed to something that activated them, vaccine or not. Antibodies does not mean immunity, it just means protection. Consider antibodies like soldiers in an army, you need enough soldiers to combat an invasion. If the invading force overwhelms your soldiers they win and you start to deteriorate in health as the virus creates complications with your other body systems as it multiplies. The point of vaccination is to increase the solider force to the level it can combat a severe invasion from the onset, boosters maintain the level high enough. Vaccines do not fight along side your immune system, they just stimulate your immune system, like poking an ants nest, that is all.

Anyone can have some antibodies, but what has been proven is that you antigens wane over time and once you get below 50% protection you are at serious risk of major infection again.

Another thing to cover is that the more times you are reinfected the more likely hood of mutation to a resistant strain. Which is why flu keeps rearing its head. Same as a host of other viruses and disease that have now been almost eradicated through vaccination.

A number of the reinfected in Britain have antigens from previous infection, and it does show a lower severity of infection, but not consistent in protection. Pretty much everyone in Europe is carrying some antigens to covid now due to it's prevalence.

Last edited by 43Inches; 25th Sep 2021 at 07:18.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 07:29
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Tetanus is a good example of a bacteria that your body can be vaccinated against, however the antibodies fade over time so booster shots are required and usually another precautionary booster is given if you are possibly exposed to it.

Or you could fight it with your 'natural' immune system alone if you like.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 07:32
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I was merely pointing out another poster's erroneous suggestion that Ivermectin was developed as a Horse deworming product. It was not
From the Nobel Peace Prize award
Invermectin was invented/developed by William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura and awarded the Nobel in Physiology or Medicine for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites. The derivatives have radically lowered the incidence of River Blindness and Lymphatic Filariasis, as well as showing efficacy against an expanding number of other parasitic diseases.
Ivermectin was developed to control parasites, not viruses. Viruses are not made out of cells, are unable to keep themselves in a stable state, and are not alive but are more akin to androids carrying code. Claims that ivermectin is either effective or safe for the treatment of virus-origin infections are not backed by credible scientific evidence. Research into ivermectin’s use, efficacy and risks for treatment of viral-origin infections, including COVID-19, is ongoing, and multiple major health organizations, including the Food and Drug Administration, U.S. Centers for Disease Control, the European Medicines Agency, and the World Health Organization have stated that ivermectin is not authorized or approved to treat virus-origin COVID-19.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:03
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43inches and Megan -

Abstract

Although several clinical trials are now underway to test possible therapies, the worldwide response to the COVID-19 outbreak has been largely limited to monitoring/containment. We report here that Ivermectin, an FDA-approved anti-parasitic previously shown to have broad-spectrum anti-viral activity in vitro, is an inhibitor of the causative virus (SARS-CoV-2), with a single addition to Vero-hSLAM cells 2 h post infection with SARS-CoV-2 able to effect ~5000-fold reduction in viral RNA at 48 h. Ivermectin therefore warrants further investigation for possible benefits in humans.

1. Introduction

Ivermectin is an FDA-approved broad spectrum anti-parasitic agent (Gonzalez Canga et al., 2008) that in recent years we, along with other groups, have shown to have anti-viral activity against a broad range of viruses (Gotz et al., 2016; Lundberg et al., 2013; Tay et al., 2013; Wagstaff et al., 2012) in vitro. Originally identified as an inhibitor of interaction between the human immunodeficiency virus-1 (HIV-1) integrase protein (IN) and the importin (IMP) α/β1 heterodimer responsible for IN nuclear import (Wagstaff et al., 2011), Ivermectin has since been confirmed to inhibit IN nuclear import and HIV-1 replication (Wagstaff et al., 2012). Other actions of ivermectin have been reported (Mastrangelo et al., 2012), but ivermectin has been shown to inhibit nuclear import of host (eg. (Kosyna et al., 2015; van der Watt et al., 2016)) and viral proteins, including simian virus SV40 large tumour antigen (T-ag) and dengue virus (DENV) non-structural protein 5 (Wagstaff et al., 2012, Wagstaff et al., 2011). Importantly, it has been demonstrated to limit infection by RNA viruses such as DENV 1-4 (Tay et al., 2013), West Nile Virus (Yang et al., 2020), Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus (VEEV) (Lundberg et al., 2013) and influenza (Gotz et al., 2016), with this broad spectrum activity believed to be due to the reliance by many different RNA viruses on IMPα/β1 during infection (Caly et al., 2012; Jans et al., 2019). Ivermectin has similarly been shown to be effective against the DNA virus pseudorabies virus (PRV) both in vitro and in vivo, with ivermectin treatment shown to increase survival in PRV-infected mice (Lv et al., 2018). Efficacy was not observed for ivermectin against Zika virus (ZIKV) in mice, but the authors acknowledged that study limitations justified re-evaluation of ivermectin's anti-ZIKV activity (Ketkar et al., 2019). Finally, ivermectin was the focus of a phase III clinical trial in Thailand in 2014–2017, against DENV infection, in which a single daily oral dose was observed to be safe and resulted in a significant reduction in serum levels of viral NS1 protein, but no change in viremia or clinical benefit was observed (see below) (Yamasmith et al., 2018).

^^^^^
Worthy of further research wouldn't you say?

Wouldn't be the first time in history that one drug had amazing cross purpose usage. Lol even another small drug company, what is it called?- oh that's right Pfizer came up with something called Viagra - The sildenafil compound was originally developed by Pfizer for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure) and angina pectoris (chest pain due to heart disease). During the heart clinical trials, researchers discovered that the drug was more effective at inducing erections than treating angina.

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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:09
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Can you agree on the fact that people who got infected and recovered from Covid-19 have some form of protection as you call it?
Can you consider that protection after natural infection could be better than after vaccination?
No protection is perfect, certainly not the one offered by vaccination against this zoonotic constantly mutating coronavirus.
Why would anyone want to mandate vaccination for those who already recovered?
Many countries did actually assume process of immunity through infection was good 1 year ago, that's not the case now, with general consensus being that it's either the same or slightly less than vaccinated immunity. Now most countries that accept covid exposure immunity limit its use out to 6 months from recovery, Germany is moving to make those that want to remain un-vaccinated prove at their own cost they are active virus free, paying for their own tests. Being 'vaccinated' in Germany means full course of vaccination + 15 days or recovered from covid and within 6 months, otherwise you can not attend indoor public settings without a self paid covid free test result within 48 hours. I use German rules as an example as they have some clear cut rules about covid vaccination status. That will most likely become the norm, either get vaccinated or pay for tests to be an active member of society. Vaccination status is an easy way to monitor the coverage of ones protection level, and is a lot cheaper than constant testing.

Worthy of further research wouldn't you say?
I've already given plenty of reasons why Ivermectin is wrong for this, as it may have some affect, but its drawbacks are too great for the dosage required. I could cure your Covid affliction with a swift hammer to the cranium, you would die, the virus would then die as it has no live feed to survive on, Covid eradicated. Like I gave the wolf example earlier, they are the doctors of the wild by being lazy hunters and preying on the sick and weak, which strengthens the herds by killing off the sick before they can infect others. Your treatment has to have tangible benefits over the side effects, which at the dosage required is not clear. Anyway there has already been one patient in Sydney with Ivermectin poisoning, who would have had no issues with covid had he just rested for the time he had it, so the stupid is still out there.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:30
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
43inches and Megan -

Abstract

Although several clinical trials are now underway to test possible therapies, the worldwide response to the COVID-19 outbreak has been largely limited to monitoring/containment. We report here that Ivermectin, an FDA-approved anti-parasitic previously shown to have broad-spectrum anti-viral activity in vitro, is an inhibitor of the causative virus (SARS-CoV-2), with a single addition to Vero-hSLAM cells 2 h post infection with SARS-CoV-2 able to effect ~5000-fold reduction in viral RNA at 48 h. Ivermectin therefore warrants further investigation for possible benefits in humans.

1. Introduction

Ivermectin is an FDA-approved broad spectrum anti-parasitic agent (Gonzalez Canga et al., 2008) that in recent years we, along with other groups, have shown to have anti-viral activity against a broad range of viruses (Gotz et al., 2016; Lundberg et al., 2013; Tay et al., 2013; Wagstaff et al., 2012) in vitro. Originally identified as an inhibitor of interaction between the human immunodeficiency virus-1 (HIV-1) integrase protein (IN) and the importin (IMP) α/β1 heterodimer responsible for IN nuclear import (Wagstaff et al., 2011), Ivermectin has since been confirmed to inhibit IN nuclear import and HIV-1 replication (Wagstaff et al., 2012). Other actions of ivermectin have been reported (Mastrangelo et al., 2012), but ivermectin has been shown to inhibit nuclear import of host (eg. (Kosyna et al., 2015; van der Watt et al., 2016)) and viral proteins, including simian virus SV40 large tumour antigen (T-ag) and dengue virus (DENV) non-structural protein 5 (Wagstaff et al., 2012, Wagstaff et al., 2011). Importantly, it has been demonstrated to limit infection by RNA viruses such as DENV 1-4 (Tay et al., 2013), West Nile Virus (Yang et al., 2020), Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus (VEEV) (Lundberg et al., 2013) and influenza (Gotz et al., 2016), with this broad spectrum activity believed to be due to the reliance by many different RNA viruses on IMPα/β1 during infection (Caly et al., 2012; Jans et al., 2019). Ivermectin has similarly been shown to be effective against the DNA virus pseudorabies virus (PRV) both in vitro and in vivo, with ivermectin treatment shown to increase survival in PRV-infected mice (Lv et al., 2018). Efficacy was not observed for ivermectin against Zika virus (ZIKV) in mice, but the authors acknowledged that study limitations justified re-evaluation of ivermectin's anti-ZIKV activity (Ketkar et al., 2019). Finally, ivermectin was the focus of a phase III clinical trial in Thailand in 2014–2017, against DENV infection, in which a single daily oral dose was observed to be safe and resulted in a significant reduction in serum levels of viral NS1 protein, but no change in viremia or clinical benefit was observed (see below) (Yamasmith et al., 2018).

^^^^^
Worthy of further research wouldn't you say?

Wouldn't be the first time in history that one drug had amazing cross purpose usage. Lol even another small drug company, what is it called?- oh that's right Pfizer came up with something called Viagra - The sildenafil compound was originally developed by Pfizer for the treatment of hypertension (high blood pressure) and angina pectoris (chest pain due to heart disease). During the heart clinical trials, researchers discovered that the drug was more effective at inducing erections than treating angina.
Are you volunteering? Go on be the Guinean pig.
Apparently it works well as suppository too.

from the SMH today

Of the 11 people who died, one was in their 40s, one in their 50s, two in their 60s, three in their 70s, three in their 80s, and one in their 90s.
Nine were unvaccinated, with two having received one dose.

Are you prepared to die to prove a point? A point that’s already buried thousands that believe vaccination doesn’t work. Good luck, you’ll need it.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 08:42
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It is just a lost cause, fully vaccinated people only account for 0.5% of the deaths from COVID in the UK and 1% in the USA, if those figures aren’t enough for people to use the vaccine then nothing will and they are betting their lives on uneducated opinions of self-taught experts and conspiracy theorists….. good luck to you.
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