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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 23rd Sep 2021, 23:54
  #581 (permalink)  
 
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Correct but due to numbers more vaccinated are getting into that category particularly the high risk persons.

I wonder if this treatment is more or less effective depending on vaccination status? - serious thought - as one is mimicking the spike proteins the other is trying to smother.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 00:25
  #582 (permalink)  
 
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Watching the "Project" last night and they had a clip of film where some one had urinated on the Shrine, so they said, the film then switched to a very brief look at a pile of some thing on the Shrine with out stating what it was, to me it looked very much as though some one had defecated. I mean, really? You're a real bunch of nutters in desecrating a memorial to all those who served, and to those who gave all in the process, you have no place in society, I'm being as polite as possible.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 01:07
  #583 (permalink)  
 
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Reading on Twitter this morning they threatening to vandalise the Shrine today . They are obviously a small group of right wing extremists , hijacking the anti vaxer , union movement for their own reasons . Paid to bring anarchy to the streets ?
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 01:10
  #584 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
Correct but due to numbers more vaccinated are getting into that category particularly the high risk persons.

I wonder if this treatment is more or less effective depending on vaccination status? - serious thought - as one is mimicking the spike proteins the other is trying to smother.
Either way Sotrovimab is a monoclonal antibody. It essentially does the same thing as a vaccine, prepares and aids your immune system to fight.

What’s got me confused is why all the anti-vaxxers are opposed to the vaccine, yet love these treatments that have the same characteristics as the vaccine, they were approved under emergency use, limited testing, manufactured by “big pharma”, have a risk of side effects.

All rational people would prefer to use a product to stop them acquiring a health condition, rather than get the health condition and then become so sick they need specialised treatment to combat that condition.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 01:15
  #585 (permalink)  
 
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have a risk of side effects.
Ivermectin has MUCH greater risk of severe side-effects in large doses than any vaccine, even to the point of mutations in unborn, hence it is not approved for pregnant women, where Covid vaccines are.

As far as vaccine MO, it just agitates your immune system into doing its own thing, none of the vaccines fight Covid in hand to hand combat. They are just training drones to get your own immune system to do that by pretending to be something similar, hence why they are safe.

Either way promoting treatment medications good or bad on a pilots forum is stupid, go get medical advice if you have covid or want more info on prevention. You can not self treat your self for this virus, as the treatment course varies depending on stage of infection, and it can be deadly taking the wrong meds at the wrong time. ie course of steroids administered at the wrong time will lead to black fungus, at the right time will lead to recovery, one being 50% death rate the other survivial.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 02:43
  #586 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Either way Sotrovimab is a monoclonal antibody. It essentially does the same thing as a vaccine, prepares and aids your immune system to fight.

What’s got me confused is why all the anti-vaxxers are opposed to the vaccine, yet love these treatments that have the same characteristics as the vaccine, they were approved under emergency use, limited testing, manufactured by “big pharma”, have a risk of side effects.

All rational people would prefer to use a product to stop them acquiring a health condition, rather than get the health condition and then become so sick they need specialised treatment to combat that condition.

The data seems/does suggest that natural immunity gives better protection and lasts longer than a 2 dose vaccination does.

Improved immunity is gained to the natural immunity, by having one vaccination shot (not both). This by far is currently the best known immunity to COVID DELTA variant.

So surely to get the best immunity in theory - is where possible allow slow natural infection (low risk group only) then 1 vaccine shot - Sotrovimabuse if people get too sick.
Fully vaccinate all high risk persons and give Sotrovimabwhen they test positive.

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Old 24th Sep 2021, 02:59
  #587 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
The data seems/does suggest that natural immunity gives better protection and lasts longer than a 2 dose vaccination does.
No

Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity

With the added benefit that natural Covid infection could also hospitalise or kill you.

Improved immunity is gained to the natural immunity, by having one vaccination shot (not both). This by far is currently the best known immunity to COVID DELTA variant.
Where did you pull this info from? Source please

So surely to get the best immunity in theory - is where possible allow slow natural infection (low risk group only) then 1 vaccine shot - Sotrovimabuse if people get too sick.
Fully vaccinate all high risk persons and give Sotrovimabwhen they test positive.
Ridiculous. You won’t be able to allow a “slow” spread in any case, disregarding the fact a majority of western nations, and even almost of majority of Australians, have been double vaccinated so impossible.

Ask the Swedes how their natural herd immunity plan went.

It just boggles my mind why some people are so opposed to two little injections to protect themselves, and want to create ridiculous complicated plans when a simple option is available.

Unless the media and information they consume leads them to believe this.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 03:04
  #588 (permalink)  
 
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It just boggles my mind why some people are so opposed to two little injections to protect themselves, and want to create ridiculous complicated plans when a simple option is available.

The need to feel special !
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 03:09
  #589 (permalink)  
 
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Reading on Twitter this morning they threatening to vandalise the Shrine today . They are obviously a small group of right wing extremists , hijacking the anti vaxer , union movement for their own reasons . Paid to bring anarchy to the streets ?
How do you know they aren't Left Wing Marxist Anarchists?
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 03:30
  #590 (permalink)  
 
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How do you know they aren't Left Wing Marxist Anarchists?
A number of members of a Neo Nazi group have been identified and some arrested at the protests, as well as being identified as protagonists. Melbourne has had a problem with Neo Nazi groups for a while, its not new, not long ago there was a big issue with someone flying a WW2 Nazi flag in plain view on his street. Trump protesters are obvious, they are flying flags for his re-election among the protesters. If there are Marxists joining forces with nazis and trump supporters, it will certainly add to the diverse mix of crackpot extremist, but I'm pretty sure they will be fighting each other not sharing chants. It doesn't take much brain power to see most groups involved are right wing. The tradies there are not representing the CFMEU either as that union has denounced the protests, it all started attacking the CFMEU headquarters for backing mandatory vaccinations.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 03:37
  #591 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=dr dre;11115785]No

Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity You are aware this is a hospital (several in USA)?



Where did you pull this info from? Source please

Not PPRuNe.Studies show that people with previous exposure to SARS-CoV-2 tend to mount powerful immune responses to single shots, and gain little added benefit from another injection1,2,3. What’s more, for people with immunity gained through infection, one dose typically boosts antibody numbers to levels that are equal to, or often greater than, those found in individuals who have not been infected and have received double doses4.

France, Germany and Italy, among other countries, now advise only one dose of vaccine for people with a healthy immune system and a confirmed previous diagnosis. Many scientists who have studied immune responses to vaccination say such policies are a sensible way to make the most of limited supplies in countries that are racing to inoculate their populations.

and



The Israeli preprint does, however, shed light on our increasing understanding of the potent immunity induced by getting the vaccine after having COVID – so-called hybrid immunity. Several studies show a substantial boost in both antibody and T-cell responses to vaccine in people with previous COVID infection.

A recent report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that people who’d recovered from COVID and were later vaccinated had half the risk of reinfection compared with unvaccinated people who’d previously had COVID. So it’s still worth getting the vaccine, even if you have previously had COVID.

The effective immune booster following the combination of natural immunity and a single subsequent vaccine jab also raises the question of whether one dose is enough for people who have had COVID. Several studies report that immune responses to a single dose of either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine exceed those after two doses in people without prior infection.


There are a number of the studies you can read - the theory seems to be that with the natural immunity your body has fought the whole virus unlike what the vaccines produce.

This is a pretty standard profile to see the groups at risk

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/...-group-and-sex
and
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...-demographics/
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 04:02
  #592 (permalink)  
 
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France, Germany and Italy, among other countries, now advise only one dose of vaccine for people with a healthy immune system and a confirmed previous diagnosis.
Be careful quoting what's going on in Germany, there is a lot of false information. Germany is moving to pretty strict rules for non vaccinated, including that to attend things you must have done a test proving you are covid free withing the previous 48 hours AT your own expense, no more free testing. The single jab is becoming a MINIMUM requirement for those that have recovered from Covid, to boost antigens. And you can only use covid recovery as a pass if its within 6 months of recovery date, then you need MINIMUM 1 shot covid booster shots. So it is quite obvious that they consider having had covid as less of protection than teh vaccinations themselves which last 8 months to 1 year before booster is required. Basically in Germany it is set to get very expensive for you to attend any indoor event unvaccinated.

Do not regard minimum requirements by law as what is better for you. These minimums are what they consider the absolute basic requirements for public safety, you can actually get more and not suffer much side effect, but that would be wasting doses as the benefit of more does not significantly boost its effectiveness. Germany was actually pushing to mix up dosing with one AZ and one Pf for maximum effectiveness.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 04:46
  #593 (permalink)  
 
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The Israeli preprint does, however, shed light on our increasing understanding of the potent immunity induced by getting the vaccine after having COVID – so-called hybrid immunity. Several studies show a substantial boost in both antibody and T-cell responses to vaccine in people with previous COVID infection.
Last years Israel study on Pfizer found the complete opposite of what you are saying. The rates of infection and hospitalisation did not drop off significantly until after a second dose was administered and then infection rates dropped off markedly.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 05:23
  #594 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Last years Israel study on Pfizer found the complete opposite of what you are saying. The rates of infection and hospitalisation did not drop off significantly until after a second dose was administered and then infection rates dropped off markedly.
100% correct 43inches, lots of misinformation and changing new data on this new pandemic all the time.

That is why it is important to keep an open mind, last years info is out of date now, and a min of 3 doses seems to be the new standard mantra.

A small fraction of resources (time and money) have been allocated to effects of natural immunity compared to "just get vaccinated". Australia and USA do not even recognize natural immunity and treat it as if it does not exist.

This from the WHO a while ago still says not much is known about numerous aspects of immunity, but has have some data on it. That data shows it is pretty good immunity.

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/...2021.1-eng.pdf

Worldwide more than 208,081,956 people have it so far.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 05:38
  #595 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing much has changed since last years Israeli study, just what is studied. That study focused on effectiveness of the vaccine as it was administered. Lately that sort of study is getting almost impossible to quantify as those that are not vaccinated all have some form of antigens due to Covid being so wide spread. In Europe especially most people have had some exposure to covid now, so a high proportion have antibodies. That in no way infers immunity, as its the amount of circulating antigens that determines whether you get infected or not. Which is why Germany does not accept antigen tests as a form of pass.

The 3rd jab has been happening in Israel for a number of months now, it is not an extra jab to the initial 2. It is a booster shot that will be required regularly as antigen density drops off and therefore immunity wanes. One would assume there will be a 4th, 5th and 6th jab as long as Covid is prolific in the community.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 05:49
  #596 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
This from the WHO a while ago still says not much is known about numerous aspects of immunity, but has have some data on it. That data shows it is pretty good immunity.

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/...2021.1-eng.pdf

Worldwide more than 208,081,956 people have it so far.
That figure looks like it came from the Worldometer webpage. It looks reputable with no obvious reason to doubt it. The line prior of deaths on that page is worth noting too, at the point you retrieved that figure the deaths figure stood at 4,742,727. So based on those figures, 208 million recovered, 4.7 million died. I'm sure all the usual caveats apply regarding asymptomatic cases undiagnosed, deaths not recorded in places such as India and remote places unable to test sick patients and so on, but overall based on those figures it's a fairly dangerous way to gain natural immunity - a roughly 2.2% death rate.

On the 22nd of September in Australia there were 337,285 vaccine doses administered. For the sake of the example if we take the rough approximation that half of them were first doses, that is 168642 first doses. Now if hypothetically deaths occurred at the same rate at the point of first exposure to either coronavirus or the vaccine, in gaining either natural or vaccine-derived immunity people, then there would have been 3710 people dying, in Australia alone, from their vaccination reactions on that day. 3710 deaths, in one day. That fairly obviously didn't happen. Given a choice, I know which way I would rather gain that immunity.

While there have been very rare cases of deaths linked to vaccinations, that rate is vastly, vastly lower. Of course, if you've had it, and recovered, then hopefully you are protected whether that involves a followup booster or whatever is the most effective.

Last edited by De_flieger; 24th Sep 2021 at 06:16.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 06:13
  #597 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
The data seems/does suggest that natural immunity gives better protection and lasts longer than a 2 dose vaccination does.

Improved immunity is gained to the natural immunity, by having one vaccination shot (not both). This by far is currently the best known immunity to COVID DELTA variant.

So surely to get the best immunity in theory - is where possible allow slow natural infection (low risk group only) then 1 vaccine shot - Sotrovimabuse if people get too sick.
Fully vaccinate all high risk persons and give Sotrovimabwhen they test positive.
OMG, I can’t believe you are suggesting this.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 07:17
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Originally Posted by Derfred View Post
OMG, I can’t believe you are suggesting this.

I did not suggest it!

The words "In theory" were used to obtain one, and only one simple thing - The best immunity.

Possibilities and practicalities were left out - a bit like only using "best medical advice" in running a country or a state, or CAsA reducing flight possibilities over decades to making aviation safer.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 07:57
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So Bendalot, how do you get natural immunity? If everyone says let’s get natural immunity then what happens when 70% of the population who are unvaccinated get Covid? Sure they may end up with natural immunity but the hospital system will break under the pressure and thousands will die. It never ceases to amaze me when people say, ‘instead of getting a proven and safe vaccine I will get covid, risk life long complications and take a horse anti-parasitic as my Facebook mates say it helps even though all the medical studies say it doesn’t! The reason you don’t see governments talking about natural immunity is because it is the dumbest idea that the anti ax brigade have pushed yet, right up their with horse medicine and injecting bleach….. but hey, you do you.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 09:14
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India where health standards are extremely poor and where there are massive slums has only vaccinated a minority of its citizens. Yet the COVID death rate per million people is 5 times less than the almost fully vaccinated United Kingdom’s death rate.

Vaccines really work …. to create inflation so the USA can remain the master of the global financial system.
Soon the USD will shoot for the stars until the trust is finally gone forever for the fiat currency and than the world will return to the gold standard. I believe it’s 3-5 years that’s it . Unless we have a war of course.

Last edited by union; 24th Sep 2021 at 09:30.
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