QF mandates Vaccine
Science is wonderful, it's the dumb **** we do with that science.
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It's more about time than number of doses, was it safe, we should know in say 5 or 10 years time, remember your kids are about to be vaccinated. I don't expect there to be a problem we have created for ourselves, lets hope we are all right on that score. But to declare it's safe in just 6 months is a bit premature don't you think.
I trust the medical professionals who have dedicated their lives to this kind of work and research - you know, like ACTUAL research in a lab compared to what conspiracy theories you have read online (that fact you might say 'but it's not a conspiracy' - would ultimately suggest that it is). I trust the thousands of scientists who have downed tools from what they were working on and bumped heads together on an unprecedented scale to come up with a vaccine on a virus that only emerged last year. In my view, the greatest human achievement since humans first set foot on the moon. But alas those with a superiority complex, from those who think they know better, a 'gotcha!' if you will, believe differently. This, which will ultimately will cost lives and livelihoods (sorry SloMo, had to steal that one) because of an indignant few.
I trust those medical professionals, just as they would trust me as a pilot, with doing my job right. A job that is purely based on science studied by fascinating human beings who are far more intelligent than you or I. Forget the misinformation, get the friggen jab.
Fuel-Off
All that aside it's still going to take months to get our population vaccinated, we can't go any faster, just the same as you can't fly me there any quicker.
The response to my post was as predicted. Personally I dont care if QF goes bust - I cant get into your country nor mine and with your current mess I dont want to. Nor do I worry if you get vaccinated - as said, vaccination is not about protecting others despiute what your politicians claim, it is about protecting you. It is a free world and if you dont want the vaccine I am sure someone else will have it. You will have to battle out compulsion with Mr Joyce but it is irrelevant to the rest of us.
The rest of the developed world is openiung up and will do so fairly fully Q4 2021 - it is your economy and your jobs that will suffer. Every 'risk' from the vaccine is magnified many times over if you get infected and infection is effectively inevitable.
The rest of the developed world is openiung up and will do so fairly fully Q4 2021 - it is your economy and your jobs that will suffer. Every 'risk' from the vaccine is magnified many times over if you get infected and infection is effectively inevitable.
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At the risk of putting my female foot into the middle of a political and employment debate, may I add some pure science?
The Indian or Delta variant is more transmissable. Much of the developed world is vaccinated. We are getting better at preventing ITU admission and death. 2021 is not the new 2020
As a result the people at risk of death are now the immunosuppresed - those with cancer and on immunosuppressants. Not professional pilots
The rest of the world has little risk of death but over the next 18-36 months everyone (well 98% of everyone) will get vaccinated or infected. That is the choice. The vaccines are very safe - even the risk of myocarditis froim Pfizer is a sixth that of myocarditis froim Covid. I would get vaccinated now purely because of the risk of long covid. Even if it is only 4% (and it is likely much higher) that is a 4% risk of losing my job, losing my medical, and failing to support my family. Sadly the politicians are still stuck in 2020 saying get vaccinated to save granny. Granny is vaccinated and safe. Vaccination is a totally selfish act, and a good one at that. Vaccination does not prevent infection, but you are likely to have only minor symptoms for a few days and no long covid. This will be the case for decades.
As to why Mr Joyce is mandating it, I can think of two reasons: first it is good marketing because most people believe adverts. Personally if I am in a metal tube with 400 plus others it matters not a jot it the dozen or so CC and pilots are vaccinated or not especially as they can still be transmitting. Second, to run an efficient airline you dont want your employees going sick for weeks and weeks. It takes only a handful of key employees to get struck down to create significant financial headwinds.
The Indian or Delta variant is more transmissable. Much of the developed world is vaccinated. We are getting better at preventing ITU admission and death. 2021 is not the new 2020
As a result the people at risk of death are now the immunosuppresed - those with cancer and on immunosuppressants. Not professional pilots
The rest of the world has little risk of death but over the next 18-36 months everyone (well 98% of everyone) will get vaccinated or infected. That is the choice. The vaccines are very safe - even the risk of myocarditis froim Pfizer is a sixth that of myocarditis froim Covid. I would get vaccinated now purely because of the risk of long covid. Even if it is only 4% (and it is likely much higher) that is a 4% risk of losing my job, losing my medical, and failing to support my family. Sadly the politicians are still stuck in 2020 saying get vaccinated to save granny. Granny is vaccinated and safe. Vaccination is a totally selfish act, and a good one at that. Vaccination does not prevent infection, but you are likely to have only minor symptoms for a few days and no long covid. This will be the case for decades.
As to why Mr Joyce is mandating it, I can think of two reasons: first it is good marketing because most people believe adverts. Personally if I am in a metal tube with 400 plus others it matters not a jot it the dozen or so CC and pilots are vaccinated or not especially as they can still be transmitting. Second, to run an efficient airline you dont want your employees going sick for weeks and weeks. It takes only a handful of key employees to get struck down to create significant financial headwinds.
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The response to my post was as predicted. Personally I dont care if QF goes bust - I cant get into your country nor mine and with your current mess I dont want to. Nor do I worry if you get vaccinated - as said, vaccination is not about protecting others despiute what your politicians claim, it is about protecting you. It is a free world and if you dont want the vaccine I am sure someone else will have it. You will have to battle out compulsion with Mr Joyce but it is irrelevant to the rest of us.
The rest of the developed world is openiung up and will do so fairly fully Q4 2021 - it is your economy and your jobs that will suffer. Every 'risk' from the vaccine is magnified many times over if you get infected and infection is effectively inevitable.
The rest of the developed world is openiung up and will do so fairly fully Q4 2021 - it is your economy and your jobs that will suffer. Every 'risk' from the vaccine is magnified many times over if you get infected and infection is effectively inevitable.
Summary By Dr. Jessica Steier & Dr. Andrea Love
Unbiased Science Podcast 29 August 2021
Last month, data from a CDC internal presentation was leaked and taken out of context. The agency thinks that communication on vaccine effectiveness and breakthrough infections could be improved. The document contained several slides that were considered confidential (meaning that they included preliminary data that are subject to change).
It is crucial to analyze all slides before sharing them and spreading the wrong information. Let’s dive into the presentation:
Breakthrough cases are expected and will be seen more often as more people get vaccinated. However, they are still rare and don't indicate that the vaccines are not working. There is an 8-fold reduction in disease incidence, a 25-fold reduction in hospitalization, and a 25-fold reduction in death in the vaccinated population vs unvaccinated. Preliminary studies suggest that the number of hospitalizations is increasing within the vaccinated group (still less than the unvaccinated), mainly among the elderly who are at higher risk of infection.
The delta variant appears to cause more severe illness when compared to earlier variants. Delta leads to a much higher viral load and is more transmissible than the ancestor strain and almost as transmissible as chickenpox. Based on CDC data, it appears that breakthrough cases MAY be as transmissible as unvaccinated cases.
The document also contains information about vaccine effectiveness (VE); preliminary VE data from May and June 2021 were disclosed in the presentation. 88%-87% reduction against hospitalization and 90% against symptomatic infections were reported. Despite presenting a good VE in the general population, it was lower among immunocompromised communities and nursing home residents.
The CDC’s goal was to improve the communication on vaccine effectiveness, breakthrough cases, and the delta variant. After analyzing published and preliminary data -- given higher transmissibility, vaccine coverage, and VE -- it was concluded that universal masking is essential.
The war has changed. But we know how to fight.
With everyone's help, we can reduce the Delta transmission.
Want more Unbiased Science? Check out our Patreon!
Dang - It won't let me post the link to the report.
Google : Improving communications around vaccine breakthrough and vaccine effectivness
People are misreading documents. Key point is " Breakthrough cases are POTENTIALLY as transmissible as unvaccinated, but for shorter period of time". The high viral load that some have referred to in previous posts is only refering to breakthrough infections post vaccination (something like 1% from memory). That means that post vaccination, you can still get Covid, most (like 99% of non imunocompromised people) will show no symptoms what so ever. This cohort have little to no chance of spreading it to others.
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074
Unbiased Science Podcast 29 August 2021
Last month, data from a CDC internal presentation was leaked and taken out of context. The agency thinks that communication on vaccine effectiveness and breakthrough infections could be improved. The document contained several slides that were considered confidential (meaning that they included preliminary data that are subject to change).
It is crucial to analyze all slides before sharing them and spreading the wrong information. Let’s dive into the presentation:
Breakthrough cases are expected and will be seen more often as more people get vaccinated. However, they are still rare and don't indicate that the vaccines are not working. There is an 8-fold reduction in disease incidence, a 25-fold reduction in hospitalization, and a 25-fold reduction in death in the vaccinated population vs unvaccinated. Preliminary studies suggest that the number of hospitalizations is increasing within the vaccinated group (still less than the unvaccinated), mainly among the elderly who are at higher risk of infection.
The delta variant appears to cause more severe illness when compared to earlier variants. Delta leads to a much higher viral load and is more transmissible than the ancestor strain and almost as transmissible as chickenpox. Based on CDC data, it appears that breakthrough cases MAY be as transmissible as unvaccinated cases.
The document also contains information about vaccine effectiveness (VE); preliminary VE data from May and June 2021 were disclosed in the presentation. 88%-87% reduction against hospitalization and 90% against symptomatic infections were reported. Despite presenting a good VE in the general population, it was lower among immunocompromised communities and nursing home residents.
The CDC’s goal was to improve the communication on vaccine effectiveness, breakthrough cases, and the delta variant. After analyzing published and preliminary data -- given higher transmissibility, vaccine coverage, and VE -- it was concluded that universal masking is essential.
The war has changed. But we know how to fight.
With everyone's help, we can reduce the Delta transmission.
Want more Unbiased Science? Check out our Patreon!
Dang - It won't let me post the link to the report.
Google : Improving communications around vaccine breakthrough and vaccine effectivness
People are misreading documents. Key point is " Breakthrough cases are POTENTIALLY as transmissible as unvaccinated, but for shorter period of time". The high viral load that some have referred to in previous posts is only refering to breakthrough infections post vaccination (something like 1% from memory). That means that post vaccination, you can still get Covid, most (like 99% of non imunocompromised people) will show no symptoms what so ever. This cohort have little to no chance of spreading it to others.
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074
Last edited by Guptar; 28th Aug 2021 at 21:34.
Granny still not likely to die or be gravely ill, so the point stands.
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Alan Joyce said it best on Friday.
”If you don’t want to get vaccinated then aviation is probably not for you”.
I still have my little yellow vaccination book from the 60s and 70s showing vaccination for smallpox and yellow fever etc.
There are plenty of precedents people.
Get a grip.
Get the vaccination.
”If you don’t want to get vaccinated then aviation is probably not for you”.
I still have my little yellow vaccination book from the 60s and 70s showing vaccination for smallpox and yellow fever etc.
There are plenty of precedents people.
Get a grip.
Get the vaccination.
If you're not willing to trust the medical science behind vaccination why are you trusting the aerodynamic, engineering, and technological science behind the aircraft your stepping into?
Also from Qantas's perspective, they are protecting themselves from future civil action, if you can sue for falling down some aircraft stairs I can guarantee you could successfully sue if an airline hadn't taken all available mitigations to reduce transmission on an aircraft.
Also from Qantas's perspective, they are protecting themselves from future civil action, if you can sue for falling down some aircraft stairs I can guarantee you could successfully sue if an airline hadn't taken all available mitigations to reduce transmission on an aircraft.
Your individual immune system will never forget the disease, it just changes how quickly and effectively it will respond. I was vaccinated at the start of the year, and been getting blood tests every month since to measure my antibody levels, the levels of antibodies I have is still many orders of magnitude higher than what is considered to be the minimum level to be effectively vaccinated, my personal immune system response to the vaccine has been very positive. The CDC just last week is now advocating for people like myself 8 months since the second vaccine to have a third booster shot. Those people who are immunocompromised they recommend a booster shot 4 weeks after the second shot. The only way to know your individual response to vaccine is to get an antibody test.
Additionally recent studies by the CDC have shown that people that have been vaccinated with mRNA vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna) have a reduced ability to transmit the virus, and have very significantly reduced chances of getting really sick, being hospitalised and dying. That does not mean vaccinated people will stop dying, some will as everyone’s immune response once infected is different. Studies in the US and Israel have shown person requiring hospitalisation after being vaccinated is more likely to be immunocompromised.
In Israel where over 85% of adults are fully vaccinated, there is still a few hundred people a month getting COVID, and single digits figures dying. Their lifestyle over there is reminiscent of pre COVID times, beaches are packed, restaurants are buzzing.
Their population is reaping the rewards of an effective vaccination campaign, they have a quality lifestyle, their health system can effectively cope with a few cases they get, and their economy is recovering.
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This pretty much sums it up, the average weekly deaths in the UK for last month. COVID has over 1,000,000 current infections being treated or isolated compared to 33,000 with cancer and 18,000 with heart disease but is one of the smallest reasons for death. Time to get vaccinated and open the borders, enough of the scaremongering, we can control Covid gettin* in as well as we can eradicate cancer and heart disease yet we don’t live in fear of those.
Last edited by Ollie Onion; 29th Aug 2021 at 11:07.
Covid is very highly contagious unlike heart disease, cancer and those other illnesses which are not.
I know I won't catch heart disease or cancer just from walking past someone else in the street, and so I don't have the same fear about these illnesses.
I know I won't catch heart disease or cancer just from walking past someone else in the street, and so I don't have the same fear about these illnesses.
No vaccinations against cancer or heart disease so if you get either your in trouble . You can get vaccinated, free of charge , takes a couple hours out of your life and your doing the right thing for yourself, your family and country at very little risk to yourself .
There's something not quite right with that data and its presentation, Ollie. According to the GOV.UK Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK website in the past two months there have been 4,131 COVID-19 deaths, giving a weekly average of 474 deaths, not 250.
Moreover, those categories of illness usually only account for a bit over half the deaths recorded in the UK in any given recent year. At the very least there should be a sizeable segment called "Other".
Further, heart disease looks to be significantly understated. Based on recent cause of death data for the UK ischaemic heart diseases have accounted for half as many deaths again than dementia and Alzheimer disease.
Where did you get that graphic from?
Moreover, those categories of illness usually only account for a bit over half the deaths recorded in the UK in any given recent year. At the very least there should be a sizeable segment called "Other".
Further, heart disease looks to be significantly understated. Based on recent cause of death data for the UK ischaemic heart diseases have accounted for half as many deaths again than dementia and Alzheimer disease.
Where did you get that graphic from?
The data is from https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...st-killer.html
The point of the article is that an obsession with daily case numbers and deaths is unhealthy and causing major mental illness issues amongst the population when COVID is something that we are going to have to live with. Get jabbed and get on with life, the chances that you will die from this disease is significantly less than other leading causes. It is of note as well that the lockdowns and isolation are leading to a resurgence in other respiratory conditions such as RSV which has lead to many more children in hospital than covid has.
The point of the article is that an obsession with daily case numbers and deaths is unhealthy and causing major mental illness issues amongst the population when COVID is something that we are going to have to live with. Get jabbed and get on with life, the chances that you will die from this disease is significantly less than other leading causes. It is of note as well that the lockdowns and isolation are leading to a resurgence in other respiratory conditions such as RSV which has lead to many more children in hospital than covid has.
which is why it is important to get the jab.