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Positive rate....gear up

Old 23rd Jul 2021, 01:45
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Positive rate....gear up

Interesting report on Avherald about a Dash 8 400 that took off from Sydney and flew half way to Albury before they realised they'd forgotten to put the gear up. Not having flown the 400, I don't know what indications they may have had, but I would have expected it to be a bit more noisy? And no doubt the increased fuel burn must have been a concern - I wonder if that's how they picked it up, or if someone in the cabin said something?

Incident: Sunstate DH8D at Sydney on Jul 12th 2021, crew did not retract landing gear

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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 02:25
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Originally Posted by Sue Ridgepipe View Post
Interesting report on Avherald about a Dash 8 400 that took off from Sydney and flew half way to Albury before they realised they'd forgotten to put the gear up. Not having flown the 400, I don't know what indications they may have had, but I would have expected it to be a bit more noisy? And no doubt the increased fuel burn must have been a concern - I wonder if that's how they picked it up, or if someone in the cabin said something?

Incident: Sunstate DH8D at Sydney on Jul 12th 2021, crew did not retract landing gear
Biggest indication would be a pair of Dunlops hanging outside the passengers' windows!
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 02:41
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Originally Posted by smiling monkey View Post
Biggest indication would be a pair of Dunlops hanging outside the passengers' windows!
Quite amazing, and reassuring the cabin crew were also at the top of their game! [sarcasm] Or maybe in their defence they just did a sector in a BN-2 previously?!
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 02:48
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Originally Posted by smiling monkey View Post
Biggest indication would be a pair of Dunlops hanging outside the passengers' windows!
no pax to see them
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 03:12
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with all that drag maybe it came to this.

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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 03:21
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Worst case scenario is get to destination and put them up for landing .
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 03:23
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Similar thing happened recently with a QF 787.
After take-off, gear remained down, aircraft RTB.

Disclaimer: Sorry for thread drift & sorry if mentioned elsewhere
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 03:42
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That was due to the gear pins being left in by the ground engineer, not forgetting to raise them after T/O

Last edited by mmm345; 23rd Jul 2021 at 03:42. Reason: spelling
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 04:07
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Is it not the responsibility of the flight crew member doing the walk around to ensure all the gear pins have been removed?
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 04:12
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Right, Sunstate.

Obviously no link whatsoever to the unblemished safety champions of the world?
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 04:14
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With the stop start nature of rostering and general reduction / lack of currency, we’ll see more of this sort of stuff across the board.
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 04:33
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That was due to the gear pins being left in by the ground engineer, not forgetting to raise them after T/O
So the engineer inserted the pins after the flight crew did the walk-around?
Doesn't make sense.
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 05:54
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It happens, I investigated an A320 flight were the crew didn’t realise the Gear was still down until they got the over speed warning accelerating through 10,000 ft. Also investigated a engine out departure in the UK were the Gear was left down until the crew noticed a ‘reduced’ climb performance after acceleration. We are all capable of doing these things.
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 07:18
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Ollie as an investigator you would have tried to ascertain the why it was left down. There are procedures and checklists that are supposed to stop this happening. It is a very basic part of two crew operation so why are two or more pilots missing the basics? It is not that different to setting an incorrect QNH then not bothering to cross check the altimeter. I can accept the COVID and recency argument for something a bit out of left field but not putting the gear up and then completing an After Take-Off checklist seems a bit of a stretch. However if COVID is having this sort of impact then the airlines need to be taking note and proactively put some non-punitive HR resources to help anyone struggling. Unfortunately the airlines and the regulators put all the onus on the individual.
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 07:39
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It happened because they said "positive Rate", they should have said "positive Climb", then it would have all been good.

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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 08:10
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It’s happened in the Sim quite a few times ( not to the same person I’ll add !! )
In some cases not picked up until the call for gear down on approach, lots of confused looking faces and a check Captain writing lots of notes for the debrief…..
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 09:33
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The problem here will be the SA of the crew. Anyone can take off with the gear out but the fact it took so long to realise, including doing the After Take-off checks will be the issue. I still can't fathom how you wouldn't notice the large gear lever with three green lights right in front of you. What was the FO looking at during the climb?
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 09:40
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What would the noise be like fanging along with the gear still down?
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 09:47
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
The problem here will be the SA of the crew. Anyone can take off with the gear out but the fact it took so long to realise, including doing the After Take-off checks will be the issue. I still can't fathom how you wouldn't notice the large gear lever with three green lights right in front of you. What was the FO looking at during the climb?

NOT saying it’s the case in this incident; but I’m sure we’ve all flown with people who just read the checklist, expecting that the items are done, rather than checking they’ve been done.

I fly with one person in particular who does this with the after takeoff checklist. I have seen them look (and I do reckon they’ve looked at the item), but they then just literally read the checklist off. . . . . Not they way it’s meant to be done.

I hide my smile after I call “negative” to items they say they’ve done but have actually missed. And it’s more than once with this old boy!
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 09:50
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
It happened because they said "positive Rate", they should have said "positive Climb", then it would have all been good.
Standard Boeing call is “positive rate”
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