Positive rate....gear up

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Interesting report on Avherald about a Dash 8 400 that took off from Sydney and flew half way to Albury before they realised they'd forgotten to put the gear up. Not having flown the 400, I don't know what indications they may have had, but I would have expected it to be a bit more noisy? And no doubt the increased fuel burn must have been a concern - I wonder if that's how they picked it up, or if someone in the cabin said something?

Incident: Sunstate DH8D at Sydney on Jul 12th 2021, crew did not retract landing gear

[smiling monkey]

Originally Posted by Sue Ridgepipe

Interesting report on Avherald about a Dash 8 400 that took off from Sydney and flew half way to Albury before they realised they'd forgotten to put the gear up. Not having flown the 400, I don't know what indications they may have had, but I would have expected it to be a bit more noisy? And no doubt the increased fuel burn must have been a concern - I wonder if that's how they picked it up, or if someone in the cabin said something?

Incident: Sunstate DH8D at Sydney on Jul 12th 2021, crew did not retract landing gear

Biggest indication would be a pair of Dunlops hanging outside the passengers' windows!

[Green.Dot]

Originally Posted by smiling monkey

Biggest indication would be a pair of Dunlops hanging outside the passengers' windows!

Quite amazing, and reassuring the cabin crew were also at the top of their game! [sarcasm] Or maybe in their defence they just did a sector in a BN-2 previously?!

[Ladloy]

Originally Posted by smiling monkey

Biggest indication would be a pair of Dunlops hanging outside the passengers' windows!

no pax to see them

[Foxxster]

with all that drag maybe it came to this.

You Tube

[Torukmacto]

Worst case scenario is get to destination and put them up for landing .

[Qanchor]

Similar thing happened recently with a QF 787.
After take-off, gear remained down, aircraft RTB.

Disclaimer: Sorry for thread drift & sorry if mentioned elsewhere

[mmm345]

That was due to the gear pins being left in by the ground engineer, not forgetting to raise them after T/O

[Jetdream]

Is it not the responsibility of the flight crew member doing the walk around to ensure all the gear pins have been removed?

[minigundiplomat]

Right, Sunstate.

Obviously no link whatsoever to the unblemished safety champions of the world?

[compressor stall]

With the stop start nature of rostering and general reduction / lack of currency, we’ll see more of this sort of stuff across the board.

[Qanchor]

That was due to the gear pins being left in by the ground engineer, not forgetting to raise them after T/O

So the engineer inserted the pins after the flight crew did the walk-around?
Doesn't make sense.

[Ollie Onion]

It happens, I investigated an A320 flight were the crew didn’t realise the Gear was still down until they got the over speed warning accelerating through 10,000 ft. Also investigated a engine out departure in the UK were the Gear was left down until the crew noticed a ‘reduced’ climb performance after acceleration. We are all capable of doing these things.

[Lookleft]

Ollie as an investigator you would have tried to ascertain the why it was left down. There are procedures and checklists that are supposed to stop this happening. It is a very basic part of two crew operation so why are two or more pilots missing the basics? It is not that different to setting an incorrect QNH then not bothering to cross check the altimeter. I can accept the COVID and recency argument for something a bit out of left field but not putting the gear up and then completing an After Take-Off checklist seems a bit of a stretch. However if COVID is having this sort of impact then the airlines need to be taking note and proactively put some non-punitive HR resources to help anyone struggling. Unfortunately the airlines and the regulators put all the onus on the individual.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

It happened because they said "positive Rate", they should have said "positive Climb", then it would have all been good.

[ACMS]

It’s happened in the Sim quite a few times ( not to the same person I’ll add !! )
In some cases not picked up until the call for gear down on approach, lots of confused looking faces and a check Captain writing lots of notes for the debrief…..

[neville_nobody]

The problem here will be the SA of the crew. Anyone can take off with the gear out but the fact it took so long to realise, including doing the After Take-off checks will be the issue. I still can't fathom how you wouldn't notice the large gear lever with three green lights right in front of you. What was the FO looking at during the climb?

[MickG0105]

What would the noise be like fanging along with the gear still down?

[Car RAMROD]

Originally Posted by neville_nobody

The problem here will be the SA of the crew. Anyone can take off with the gear out but the fact it took so long to realise, including doing the After Take-off checks will be the issue. I still can't fathom how you wouldn't notice the large gear lever with three green lights right in front of you. What was the FO looking at during the climb?

NOT saying it’s the case in this incident; but I’m sure we’ve all flown with people who just read the checklist, expecting that the items are done, rather than checking they’ve been done.

I fly with one person in particular who does this with the after takeoff checklist. I have seen them look (and I do reckon they’ve looked at the item), but they then just literally read the checklist off. . . . . Not they way it’s meant to be done.

I hide my smile after I call “negative” to items they say they’ve done but have actually missed. And it’s more than once with this old boy!

[TukwillaFlyboy]

Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc

It happened because they said "positive Rate", they should have said "positive Climb", then it would have all been good.

Standard Boeing call is “positive rate”