Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Quarantine Hypocrisy

Old 26th Apr 2021, 12:24
  #21 (permalink)  
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No incorrect. Lucky for you. Whatever your circumstances though it doesn’t make it right when there are significant inconsistencies. If you’re happy with the status quo so be it. I trust Alan rang you to thank you for your service.
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Old 26th Apr 2021, 12:59
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Never said it did make it right and never said I was happy with it. But complaining on PPRuNe of my plight wasn't going to help last year.

I went other ways - twice I even got as far as the Government solicitors who draft the legislation to point out the omissions that were landing us in Q having done less than things that would exempt you from Q. It took 3 months in one case but the new directions covered it.

For most of last year I was keeping a matrix to stay abreast of all state/territory ever changing Directions and we regularly fired it back to the Police and health departments when they interpreted things on a whim towards our crews against their own advice.

Alan? Nice try but, no.
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Old 26th Apr 2021, 13:17
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Troo believer View Post
No incorrect. Lucky for you. Whatever your circumstances though it doesnít make it right when there are significant inconsistencies. If youíre happy with the status quo so be it. I trust Alan rang you to thank you for your service.
I think compressor stall works in even colder climates than Alan's office. So not QF.

Fortress Australia has screwed the few to protect the many. It's economy is doing well, unemployment is going ok. And that's where the big picture stops. In comparison to life in other parts of the world it is still the lucky country. And I say that as an Ozzie locked on the outside.

Unfortunately the working life of the international pilot (and domestic with the way states shut down) is of no consequence. If qf don't do the flying, someone from outside will The public and travelers don't care. I don't endorse this, but this where Australia is at.

There is lots of real world data now supporting the use of vaccines. And until the major population of the world have been jabbed, there won't be change. And that is taking a long time to achieve.

But, on our network, where quarentine is no longer an issue, our aircraft are full. So I see this as evidence as a strong rebound in travel when things finally open up.

I only hope that those still waiting to be recalled can wait it out.

And troo believer I agree with everything you say about the inconsistent way it's all being managed. But those making the decisions weren't the ones we saw do well in class at school.
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Old 26th Apr 2021, 15:30
  #24 (permalink)  
swh

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All I will say, what is happening in Oz is by far not the worst out there.

Some countries want you to test and quarantine for departing and landing at the same airport, like a 2hr air test. Literally pulling up at the same stand you departed from.

Donít see a lot of science in this, probably been tested over 100 times, fully vaccinated however Iím considered more of a threat than
the people at immigration that never get tested however in contact with unknown passengers every day.
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Old 26th Apr 2021, 16:08
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Some quality journalism suggests CoVID can "creep" from one hotel room to another? By creep do they men shoddy adherence to procedures in quarantine hotels?

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Old 26th Apr 2021, 18:50
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Troo believer, for once I agree with you!!

Australia has truly lost its way with the various restrictions in place for quarantine. I canít comment on the rules for Oz based flight crew, but I can certainly tell you that what arriving crew experience is also following the same inane path.

Iíll add my experience though from the last 12 months in the UAE.

We started with 14 day home quarantine after every flight or until your next duty. For those is us that continued flying, that meant a continuous quarantine period that lasted around 3 months until the rules changed. During this time if you were unlucky enough to be on a flight with a confirmed case, you were removed from duty for 14 days and also required to take a PCR test at the end. We were also given a PCR test at the end of every duty.

Approximately 3 months in the rules changed and the PCR test on arrival was dropped. The home quarantine requirement was also removed. For the ďconfirmed case on boardĒ, we still had to isolate for 14 days, however the PCR test at the end was removed.

Sometime around October the ďconfirmed case on boardĒ rules changed again. Now we were notified but only required to monitor for symptoms.

Throughout this time restrictions on layovers have been in place. Most destinations we are not allowed to leave the hotel. However in your case, if you believe 100% of QF/ANZ crew follow this on every layover, I have a bridge to sell you..... If restrictive rules exist, I guarantee you someone isnít following them.

We also had requirements for PPE since March last year, including on layovers.

To be honest, Iíve been quite happy with the progression of the various rules here. Things have changed regularly but appear to be based on new information or actual available data. Unlike some of the pedantic BS in Australia. Plus this country is actually able to figure out how to administer a vaccine, so almost all crew are vaccinated (plus a significant portion of society and airline families).

Just to add, the rule changes at the beginning of 2021 for international crew on layovers, are another example of what you speak about. Please tell me what benefit there is in testing crew on a 24 hour layover??? Especially when the results can take 24-48 hours to come back. There has been flight crew ON THE AIRCRAFT, about to board passengers, that then receive a positive result. The threat is almost 99% guaranteed to be asymptomatic and is ABOUT TO LEAVE AUSTRALIA!!! But the rules require all the crew to leave the aircraft and undergo 14 days quarantine in Australia.

All I can really say is HAHAHAHA and good luck. And Iím Australian!!
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Old 26th Apr 2021, 22:23
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Elimination (of logic) Strategy

I believe the overriding problem in Australia is the very thing "we" are most proud of - our Elimination Strategy. This will be our downfall going forward.

Politicians with the aid of the media have hammered the concept of zeros, double zeros etc so hard into our skulls that even seeing the number "1" sends citizens rushing to the shops for toilet paper, fears of city wide lockdowns and 10-20k ppl rushing to be COVID swabbed.
This concept of absolute zero risk is unsustainable and has moved the country head first into a brick wall.

Who wants to be the one to relax any rules in this environment?

Using COVID logic, Easter Weekend should be cancelled. If it had been cancelled, we would have saved 20 lives.

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Old 27th Apr 2021, 00:30
  #28 (permalink)  
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Differences between Aus and NZ

Those wondering why differences exist between Australian and NZ rules - just look at the media ownership in NZ (or specifically lack of ownership by Newscorpse). What possible incentive would any (particularly labour) state government have to apply any judgement to practicality of risk based outcomes on crew quarantine (manageble when you consider recent WA and NSW Northern Beaches) when any perceived lack of absolute control will result in a media campaign akin to what Victoria saw last year (totally unmanaged - and from the same organisation that actively promotes the "let it rip" brigade)?
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Old 27th Apr 2021, 02:55
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Iím not so concerned or wound up about myself being isolated.
What gets to me, as per the thread title, is the hypocrisy.

In short, there are arguably people who are at an equal or greater risk of catching/spreading it than compared to us flight crew, and they are not required to isolate yet we are.
Now if you isolated those people Iíd complain less.

Iím not complaining about the hypocrisy in an attempt to get out of quarantine; but if they made it fair and let us not quarantine (like the equally or higher risk staff) then I wouldnít say no.
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Old 27th Apr 2021, 03:19
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Climb150 View Post
Some quality journalism suggests CoVID can "creep" from one hotel room to another? By creep do they men shoddy adherence to procedures in quarantine hotels?
Par for the course for quality journalism some would say!.... before a mid life career change I worked in commercial airconditioning, including some hotels and hospitals. To make them as energy efficient as possible (which has been a major influence in he past 20 years) typically just the rooms themselves are airconditioned with the absolute least amount of fresh air introduced via an central outside air unit. The introduced air returns and relieves down the corridors (which are not air conditioned at all).

It's possibly the worst design for preventing the spread of a respiratory virus. The virus load will leak down the hallways continuously and also build up in the room so when the door to the corridor is opened sent a big parcel of infected air down the common areas. It's surprising we haven't had more outbreaks.

A better setup would be to have a purpose built facility (or two) to safely process international arrivals, big enough to handle as many people that want to come here. Plenty of flying for both international and domestic.

The federal government really needs to show some leadership... the state by state approach will only lead to a dogs breakfast.
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Old 27th Apr 2021, 07:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I believe the overriding problem in Australia is the very thing "we" are most proud of - our Elimination Strategy. This will be our downfall going forward.
Koizi is absolutely correct. The majority of the voting public (who, funnily enough, are not international aircrew) will not accept anything other than ZERO cases.
You can't really blame them, it is something that people can be proud of. It just makes life difficult for those of us (the minority) that need to travel overseas as part of our work.
We've "done so well" that we've made a rod for our own backs...

Last edited by josephfeatherweight; 28th Apr 2021 at 21:50. Reason: Sorry - misrepresented the individual I was quoting...
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Old 28th Apr 2021, 05:36
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Aluminium Mallard View Post
Par for the course for quality journalism some would say!.... before a mid life career change I worked in commercial airconditioning, including some hotels and hospitals. To make them as energy efficient as possible (which has been a major influence in he past 20 years) typically just the rooms themselves are airconditioned with the absolute least amount of fresh air introduced via an central outside air unit. The introduced air returns and relieves down the corridors (which are not air conditioned at all).

It's possibly the worst design for preventing the spread of a respiratory virus. The virus load will leak down the hallways continuously and also build up in the room so when the door to the corridor is opened sent a big parcel of infected air down the common areas. It's surprising we haven't had more outbreaks.

A better setup would be to have a purpose built facility (or two) to safely process international arrivals, big enough to handle as many people that want to come here. Plenty of flying for both international and domestic.

The federal government really needs to show some leadership... the state by state approach will only lead to a dogs breakfast.
Are you seriously suggesting sending everyone to a facility like Nauru? Even more so where in a few months time most of the western world will have reached herd immunity. That policy is inhumane in itself. Literally no other country is doing this. All for the sake of 1 case that slipped through the net. This Covid jingoism really needs to stop to be honest.
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Old 28th Apr 2021, 12:20
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Are you seriously suggesting sending everyone to a facility like Nauru?
Where did you get that from?

Heís talking about Australia.

to have a purpose built facility (or two) to safely process international arrivals, big enough to handle as many people that want to come here.

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Old 28th Apr 2021, 13:22
  #34 (permalink)  
Keg

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NSW alone would require a facility that can house 6,000 people given the NSW arrival cap of 3,00 a week. Add workers and youíre talking a facility of 7,500-8,500 people in a Covid safe way. With 410 leaving each day and 410 arriving each day thatís a very, very significant logistical issue to sort out for one facility.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 05:08
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kitchen bench View Post
Where did you get that from?

Heís talking about Australia.
I said like Nauru - where people are held like second class citizens. If Aus decided to hold people in these desert camps, it would massively hurt itís international standing.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 05:14
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 View Post
I said like Nauru - where people are held like second class citizens. If Aus decided to hold people in these desert camps, it would massively hurt it’s international standing.
You're overlooking the FACT that a fair proportion of the returnees have spent their time overseas living in quarters that would make a desert quarantine camp look like a Kempinski penthouse.
For many of them, two weeks in a Mercure quarantine lockup will be the first and only time in their lives that they spend time in a star rated hotel.

It's 2 weeks FFS. Not a life sentence.

In addition to which, I doubt that our "international standing" would be hurt by one iota, let alone massively.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 05:15
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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The problem with rules is too many people forget the intent while flat out trying to find an exemption because they are special.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 05:33
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Quarantine is here and it's here to stay. It's sad the government hasn't even considered reducing hotel Quarantine to 7 days and possibly doing the remainder 7 days at home. Look at the stat's, 95% of all positive cases test positive in the first 7 days after exposure. The few that get through the cracks will be under home isolation.
There needs to be a path to open borders eventually.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 06:06
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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where people are held like second class citizens
So, you've been to Nauru and that's a first hand observation? Or are you repeating the drivel that comes out of the mouths of some do-gooders?
At least the people that arrive in the country to go to the quarantine facilities will have done so legally. On the other hand ..............


in a few months time most of the western world will have reached herd immunity.
If you believe that then I imagine you believe pigs can fly too.

in these desert camps
And finally, just so you've got the facts, the Victorian State Government announced today that they'll build a dedicated quarantine facility not 40 kms from Melbourne. Now, even by the wildest of imaginations, that's not the desert.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...lity/100103308

Last edited by kitchen bench; 29th Apr 2021 at 06:36. Reason: Link added.
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Old 29th Apr 2021, 08:43
  #40 (permalink)  
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From across the Tasman for aircrew quarantine rules in New Zealand. Have a read of this compared with Australian crew requirements. Correct me if I’m wrong but do Air New Zealand crew have to quarantine at all if they fly to Singapore or Hong Kong and back to NZ? It appears not but please enlighten me. For flights to LA or San Fran 2 days and a negative test. Not 14. Can anybody else see this as a major flaw in the bubble? Perhaps Aussies are just more diseased than our Kiwi bros.
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/fi...al_interim.pdf
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