Ladies in the sky
The pilot recruits had been filtered and sifted, and the short list was down to 3 - all women. They were taken, one by one, into the boss's office with the HR dude.
The HR specialist asked each one a single question: "What is one and one?"
One of them answered "Two"
One answered "11"
and the last one answered "10". They were ushered out, and the HR dude started analysing their answers.
"The first one said 2, she is a straight shooter, gives the right answer immediately."
"The second one said "11", showing that 1 and 1, side by side, makes 11, she is a lateral thinker and a good problem solver."
"The third one said "10" which is correct in binary maths - this girl will be a whizz on the computing side and will easily handle the complex electronics in the cockpit. Which one do you choose?"
The boss replied "The one with the big tits."
The HR specialist asked each one a single question: "What is one and one?"
One of them answered "Two"
One answered "11"
and the last one answered "10". They were ushered out, and the HR dude started analysing their answers.
"The first one said 2, she is a straight shooter, gives the right answer immediately."
"The second one said "11", showing that 1 and 1, side by side, makes 11, she is a lateral thinker and a good problem solver."
"The third one said "10" which is correct in binary maths - this girl will be a whizz on the computing side and will easily handle the complex electronics in the cockpit. Which one do you choose?"
The boss replied "The one with the big tits."
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 40
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
There´s always that one guy with a tit joke....although in this case, the joke may indeed be on the hiring dinosaur.
However, the most valuable lesson here is the self image required for a member of group A, to view themselves as legitimate jurors of group B. Most blokes I know hate it and call it -isms when the same kind of scrutiny is applied to group "men", but see no problem in exercising their right to discuss, judge, categorize and grant tolerance to (or not) females, gay people or other "others".
However, the most valuable lesson here is the self image required for a member of group A, to view themselves as legitimate jurors of group B. Most blokes I know hate it and call it -isms when the same kind of scrutiny is applied to group "men", but see no problem in exercising their right to discuss, judge, categorize and grant tolerance to (or not) females, gay people or other "others".
I think this misses the point.
The purpose of diversity isn't or certainly should not be to accept inferior candidates from under represented groups.
The purpose is to develop a more diverse pipeline of candidates.
If only 5% of applicants are female, the objective must be to find ways to raise the number of suitable female applicants.
Once they have applied, the usual rules should apply.
The purpose of diversity isn't or certainly should not be to accept inferior candidates from under represented groups.
The purpose is to develop a more diverse pipeline of candidates.
If only 5% of applicants are female, the objective must be to find ways to raise the number of suitable female applicants.
Once they have applied, the usual rules should apply.
The Asian Americans should be suing the NBA for not having enough of them in professional basketball teams. There is covert discrimination in placing the hoops high up on the basketball court, short people can’t reach them. The hoops need to either be lowered or a special hoop installed further down to even things up.
The African Americans can’t complain about this as they benefit from programs such as Affirmative Action and Minority Scoring to help them obtain employment in areas where they are underrepresented.
If Jews are over represented in the field of neurosurgery then it must be because the training and selection process has been set up to favour them. A quota system ensuring that all races and genders are appropriately represented in the professional fields could be introduced. A Jewish student might find that he couldn’t go into medicine but could easily play basketball instead.
Alternatively, it could be ensured that equal opportunity is given to all and selection procedures are scrupulously fair and transparent, the only criteria being ability to do the job. If having the best people in appropriate positions means that certain demographics are over represented in some areas and underrepresented in others then we have to live with that.
The African Americans can’t complain about this as they benefit from programs such as Affirmative Action and Minority Scoring to help them obtain employment in areas where they are underrepresented.
If Jews are over represented in the field of neurosurgery then it must be because the training and selection process has been set up to favour them. A quota system ensuring that all races and genders are appropriately represented in the professional fields could be introduced. A Jewish student might find that he couldn’t go into medicine but could easily play basketball instead.
Alternatively, it could be ensured that equal opportunity is given to all and selection procedures are scrupulously fair and transparent, the only criteria being ability to do the job. If having the best people in appropriate positions means that certain demographics are over represented in some areas and underrepresented in others then we have to live with that.
The pilot recruits had been filtered and sifted, and the short list was down to 3 - all women. They were taken, one by one, into the boss's office with the HR dude.
The HR specialist asked each one a single question: "What is one and one?"
One of them answered "Two"
One answered "11"
and the last one answered "10". They were ushered out, and the HR dude started analysing their answers.
"The first one said 2, she is a straight shooter, gives the right answer immediately."
"The second one said "11", showing that 1 and 1, side by side, makes 11, she is a lateral thinker and a good problem solver."
"The third one said "10" which is correct in binary maths - this girl will be a whizz on the computing side and will easily handle the complex electronics in the cockpit. Which one do you choose?"
The boss replied "The one with the big tits."
The HR specialist asked each one a single question: "What is one and one?"
One of them answered "Two"
One answered "11"
and the last one answered "10". They were ushered out, and the HR dude started analysing their answers.
"The first one said 2, she is a straight shooter, gives the right answer immediately."
"The second one said "11", showing that 1 and 1, side by side, makes 11, she is a lateral thinker and a good problem solver."
"The third one said "10" which is correct in binary maths - this girl will be a whizz on the computing side and will easily handle the complex electronics in the cockpit. Which one do you choose?"
The boss replied "The one with the big tits."
There´s always that one guy with a tit joke....although in this case, the joke may indeed be on the hiring dinosaur.
However, the most valuable lesson here is the self image required for a member of group A, to view themselves as legitimate jurors of group B. Most blokes I know hate it and call it -isms when the same kind of scrutiny is applied to group "men", but see no problem in exercising their right to discuss, judge, categorize and grant tolerance to (or not) females, gay people or other "others".
However, the most valuable lesson here is the self image required for a member of group A, to view themselves as legitimate jurors of group B. Most blokes I know hate it and call it -isms when the same kind of scrutiny is applied to group "men", but see no problem in exercising their right to discuss, judge, categorize and grant tolerance to (or not) females, gay people or other "others".
Are you just perpetually offended and looking to be angry all the time?
Please tell me this tripe is a wind up?
I'm in favour of best person for the job and am more concerned that everyone has equal opportunities. No one should be held back or advanced on the basis of belonging to a minority group. Standards should be the same for everyone with the aim of getting the best people, it's known as meritocracy.
Unfortunately the PC mob don't agree and want to see a certain percentage of minority groups in all areas, and unfortunately this results in a lowering of standards in order to meet quotas.
The Police need to have female officers for reasons such as searching women suspects and dealing with rape victims. Whilst they are not as good in a physical confrontation, women often have better communication skills and can defuse a difficult situation better than a testosterone fuelled male officer out to prove himself. Women are invaluable to the police and it would be difficult for the force to operate effectively without them.
Airlines do not need to have women pilots, however should they choose a flying career then they should have the same opportunities as the men and there should be no favouritism or discrimination shown. The top percentile are just as good and should be hired on merit, it's doing them no favours when the female average is dragged down by the bottom percentile who were employed only to make up the numbers.
Rather than setting targets for women pilots, airlines should be making sure that the playing field is completely level and they simply employ the best applicants for the job regardless of gender, race or sexual orientation. I regularly fly with female F/Os and have no issues with this, our selection procedure is even handed and those who got through did so because they deserved to, not because we need to achieve a certain percentage.
The issue of race and university entrance in the USA is an interesting one, do they simply take the best scoring applicants which results in the intake being comprised largely of Asian and Jewish students, or do they have quotas which would give a diverse intake, enable social mobility and all races the opportunity to advance ?
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: all over Europe
Age: 40
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
Me? "Perpetually", "all the time", wut? Some conclusion jumper, are you? Maybe time to check your emotional regulation with such an aggressive ad hominem reply with zero relation to actual content. You are actually not coming across as very masculine today (read: sovereign, calm, factual).
The pilot recruits had been filtered and sifted, and the short list was down to 3 - all women. They were taken, one by one, into the boss's office with the HR dude.
The HR specialist asked each one a single question: "What is one and one?"
One of them answered "Two"
One answered "11"
and the last one answered "10". They were ushered out, and the HR dude started analysing their answers.
"The first one said 2, she is a straight shooter, gives the right answer immediately."
"The second one said "11", showing that 1 and 1, side by side, makes 11, she is a lateral thinker and a good problem solver."
"The third one said "10" which is correct in binary maths - this girl will be a whizz on the computing side and will easily handle the complex electronics in the cockpit. Which one do you choose?"
The boss replied "The one with the big tits."
The HR specialist asked each one a single question: "What is one and one?"
One of them answered "Two"
One answered "11"
and the last one answered "10". They were ushered out, and the HR dude started analysing their answers.
"The first one said 2, she is a straight shooter, gives the right answer immediately."
"The second one said "11", showing that 1 and 1, side by side, makes 11, she is a lateral thinker and a good problem solver."
"The third one said "10" which is correct in binary maths - this girl will be a whizz on the computing side and will easily handle the complex electronics in the cockpit. Which one do you choose?"
The boss replied "The one with the big tits."
I think we need Jordan Peterson’s thoughts on equality of outcome.
sexual orientation
Is asked on application forms so that the appropriate toilets can be on board any aircraft they may fly?
Does it come up at an interview so that the company can meet some mystic quota?
Is it worn as a badge so that others have to pay respect to a minority?
Never in my 33 years did I have to state or indicate my sexual orientation.
And who cares!!!!!!!!
Me? "Perpetually", "all the time", wut? Some conclusion jumper, are you? Maybe time to check your emotional regulation with such an aggressive ad hominem reply with zero relation to actual content. You are actually not coming across as very masculine today (read: sovereign, calm, factual).
If it looks good politically or on a poster, the govt and business cant wait to announce it. Who cares what the impact is on day to day ops. As long as there is no smoking hole in the ground it's fine.
How do we know what a person's sexual orientation is?
I knew a very competent Captain who was unable to get in with two airlines in the Middle East, simply because he came across as a bit effeminate. He was married with children but first impressions did not indicate straight male behaviour, and that sort of thing does not go down well over there. Saudi Arabia has the death penalty for it.
Certain airlines are gay friendly and deal well with issues such as civil partnerships, staff travel and other matters pertaining to same sex couples. They will not tolerate any form of harassment and are openly supportive.
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Somewhere South
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whist I have no problem at all with female pilots, I can give you a couple of examples where some women cannot do the job as well as men. I am talking about the biz jet world where the crew have to do a lot more in the way of pre and post flight checks than in the airlines.
Example 1: On the HS125 releasing and locking the nose wheel door latch takes a strong grip on some aircraft. I have not met many women able to do this. (the nose wheel doors have to be opened to insert the nose wheel locking pin before the aircraft can be moved)
Example 2: Removing and replacing the front engine covers on a Falcon 2000 requires balancing on the top of a stepladder while unclipping and securing the top strap. In the wind and rain it is not easy. Most female pilots that I have flown with simply refuse to climb the ladder, putting the onus on the other pilot, if male, or paying for the services of an engineer if one is to hand.
Men tend to be taller and physically stronger than women so the above is no criticism but a simple fact.
Example 1: On the HS125 releasing and locking the nose wheel door latch takes a strong grip on some aircraft. I have not met many women able to do this. (the nose wheel doors have to be opened to insert the nose wheel locking pin before the aircraft can be moved)
Example 2: Removing and replacing the front engine covers on a Falcon 2000 requires balancing on the top of a stepladder while unclipping and securing the top strap. In the wind and rain it is not easy. Most female pilots that I have flown with simply refuse to climb the ladder, putting the onus on the other pilot, if male, or paying for the services of an engineer if one is to hand.
Men tend to be taller and physically stronger than women so the above is no criticism but a simple fact.
Last edited by PaulH1; 27th Mar 2021 at 16:25.
Did you all miss the fact that govt and big company PR depts don't care if quotas actually work, just so long as they get great publicity from it.
Stop discussing it here before some SJW tells a news website that all the white male pilots are putting down female pilots on a internet forum.
Stop discussing it here before some SJW tells a news website that all the white male pilots are putting down female pilots on a internet forum.
PPL Instructor (Eva, TPC, Denham) got me through PPL and was one of the best pilots I have ever flown with, she taught me a hell of a lot, CPL Instructor (Anna the Finn, VFC) got me through CPL (and most of the IR) without her I'd be nowhere - I was trained by women! Best instructors I ever had as well.
Example 2: Removing and replacing the front engine covers on a Falcon 2000 requires balancing on the top of a stepladder while unclipping and securing the top strap. In the wind and rain it is not easy. Most female pilots that I have flown with simply refuse to climb the ladder, putting the onus on the other pilot, if male, or paying for the services of an engineer if one is to hand.
Obviously not in Australia. OH & S would not allow this, do you have your working at heights certificate? Is it over 1.5m high? Oh yes need a high lift, do you have your high lift license? Oh it’s raining must down tools........
Obviously not in Australia. OH & S would not allow this, do you have your working at heights certificate? Is it over 1.5m high? Oh yes need a high lift, do you have your high lift license? Oh it’s raining must down tools........
Whist I have no problem at all with female pilots, I can give you a couple of examples where some women cannot do the job as well as men. I am talking about the biz jet world where the crew have to do a lot more in the way of pre and post flight checks than in the airlines.
Example 1: On the HS125 releasing and locking the nose wheel door latch takes a strong grip on some aircraft. I have not met many women able to do this. (the nose wheel doors have to be opened to insert the nose wheel locking pin before the aircraft can be moved)
Example 2: Removing and replacing the front engine covers on a Falcon 2000 requires balancing on the top of a stepladder while unclipping and securing the top strap. In the wind and rain it is not easy. Most female pilots that I have flown with simply refuse to climb the ladder, putting the onus on the other pilot, if male, or paying for the services of an engineer if one is to hand.
Men tend to be taller and physically stronger than women so the above is no criticism but a simple fact.
Example 1: On the HS125 releasing and locking the nose wheel door latch takes a strong grip on some aircraft. I have not met many women able to do this. (the nose wheel doors have to be opened to insert the nose wheel locking pin before the aircraft can be moved)
Example 2: Removing and replacing the front engine covers on a Falcon 2000 requires balancing on the top of a stepladder while unclipping and securing the top strap. In the wind and rain it is not easy. Most female pilots that I have flown with simply refuse to climb the ladder, putting the onus on the other pilot, if male, or paying for the services of an engineer if one is to hand.
Men tend to be taller and physically stronger than women so the above is no criticism but a simple fact.
Example of systemic discrimination: most if not all aircraft are built for the average male. Rudder pedals, seat height etc are built for a male body. Women face a hurdle from their first flight in a training aircraft...those who make it make all sorts of accommodations for the fact that the aircraft they’re flying are built without any consideration for them.
We all have our strengths, but women have to overcome more hurdles to learn to fly.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Example 1: most female pilots weigh less than the average male pilot, so they are able to carry more pax, freight or fuel on a typical GA flight (instructing or charter)
Example of systemic discrimination: most if not all aircraft are built for the average male. Rudder pedals, seat height etc are built for a male body. Women face a hurdle from their first flight in a training aircraft...those who make it make all sorts of accommodations for the fact that the aircraft they’re flying are built without any consideration for them.
We all have our strengths, but women have to overcome more hurdles to learn to fly.
Example of systemic discrimination: most if not all aircraft are built for the average male. Rudder pedals, seat height etc are built for a male body. Women face a hurdle from their first flight in a training aircraft...those who make it make all sorts of accommodations for the fact that the aircraft they’re flying are built without any consideration for them.
We all have our strengths, but women have to overcome more hurdles to learn to fly.
I like to think about it from this point of view:
If my daughter wanted to become a pilot like Dad, what obstacles stand in her way?
The previous poster mentioned grip-strength for nose-wheel doors on an HS-125, and ladder climbing on a Falcon 2000. That’s a pretty big generalisation... I have a female friend who is a kickboxer in her spare time. Not only is she taller than me, I’d say her grip strength probably exceeds mine.
Regardless, I’d have to be a pretty bad father to tell my daughter that’s why she can’t be a pilot. If that really mattered, then a small tool for the nose-wheel doors and a slightly taller step ladder should solve the problem. Next?
I would tell her that nose-wheel doors and ladders wouldn’t be her problem, it would be that she would have to deal with people who would assume she can’t do the job. For example, she would attend an interview with an HS-125 operator who would prefer a male. Or not even get an interview.
She would just have to deal with that.
It would be nice if, one day, she didn’t have to deal with that.
But before I go, I mentioned a hypothetical daughter, who might want to be a pilot, like Dad.
Anecdotally, many female pilots I have come across have had a pilot father, relative or friend. That has given them the initiative and drive to go for it, with the available help and mentoring.
I like to think of the average young girl, who’s mother might be a receptionist, or stay-home mum, and who’s dad might be a tradie, or not even in the family picture. What are her chances of even thinking of becoming a pilot, let alone working out how to achieve the goal?
You probably know such a girl... would she consider becoming a pilot? If she did, would her parents immediately dismiss her for even considering such an absurd life goal?
Is this a problem we need to solve? Is this even a problem?
I think this a more interesting discussion than so-called quotas.