Qantas...Post COVID
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Great to see the Captains get the Settlement that was acceptable to them. And good to see a federal court judge critical of the industrial and legal approach taken by Qantas and rule accordingly.
Its not the big table at Fattie's anymore. You throw out some nasty little hand grenades then expect everyone to move on? "I have spoken and there the matter ends!" It doesn't work that way in the real world.
Join Date: Feb 2021
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Lookleft, re “I have spoken and there the matter ends”, I’ll thank you for not putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting me. Moving on was merely a suggestion. Your welcome to dwell there.
Thanks theheadmaster and engine out. I think most people would understand the difference between settling a dispute and a ruling made by a judge, without needing a lesson on when Qf have been found to have broken the law versus when Qf have settled.
Both of you are doing nothing more than obfuscating my 3 points, which were that:
At least we can all agree Qf is not infallible. Pilots legal rights should be supported rather than undermined. Let’s move on shall we gentlemen?
Both of you are doing nothing more than obfuscating my 3 points, which were that:
- Keg isn’t qualified to be presenting his legal opinions as fact. It is my opinion that presenting unqualified legal opinions on public forums is dangerous, can be misleading, and is not justified simply because others do it. And,
- It is fact that Qf has settled and lost recent legal battles. Losing legal battles in court means that Qf have been found to have broken the law. And,
- I questioned why keg appears to constantly support qf’s position.
At least we can all agree Qf is not infallible. Pilots legal rights should be supported rather than undermined. Let’s move on shall we gentlemen?
Qantas may have lost the recent case with the TWU, however whether Qantas have 'broken the law' or not has not been finalised. There will be an appeal and at the end of that process the outcome will be known. However, the 'battle' and whether Qantas 'have broken the law' is not the real issue. The 'war' is about what happens to the workers. They have not been reinstated on their old conditions, and probably never will be. The 'war' is about what Qantas have done to the TWU, the FAAA, the ALAEA (and perhaps the AFAP with regards to Jetstar). AIPA needs to make sure they don't contribute to its members meeting the same fate.
The statement about AIPA CoM members infiltrating forums to push the company agenda is absurd. People like Keg are not pushing the company agenda to outsource and reduce conditions, they are actively working to prevent it. Taking the same path as the other unions will likely lead to similar outcomes. Not sure if you were in the industry in 1989, but I see similar grass roots attitudes now that were arounds then. The AIPA leadership were wise enough to avoid that mess. I don't have the same faith in the current AIPA leadership. In fact we have substantially the same Executive members that led long haul pilots to the industrial situation of 2011. The same people had a view that the current short haul and long haul Agreements should have been voted down. Look and see what having an open agreement at the moment means for your Jetstar and Virgin mates.
The argument isn't about standing up for pilots or not, it is about how to do it without shooting yourself in the foot.
Last edited by theheadmaster; 1st Aug 2021 at 22:20.
Facts are that Qantas are either settling cases like Andrew Hewitts’ as Qantas didn’t have a strong case or they are losing as is the case with the TWU in the Federal court. The judge was damming of the behaviour of every Qantas executive and how Qantas deliberately and meticulously manufactured legal and industrial responses and strategy. The judge saw through it and ruled accordingly.
Shows what Qantas wants and communicates as facts via media, webinars, company moles on forums, differs to what the court of law says.
“Qf have recently lost or settled a few significant legal matters. This means they have been found to have broken the law. They are far from infallible.” Spot on!
It shows the importance of asking these questions in court.
As opposed to basing decisions or relying on opinion that is completely unqualified on a Qrewroom or slack/Prune. I often think it’s the case of deliberate misinformation masquerading as “just my opinion”. Often it’s an attempt to steer the opinion of the masses toward the companies position as opposed to that which would benefit or be a right of the pilot
Shows how important the legal system is proving to be.
Shows what Qantas wants and communicates as facts via media, webinars, company moles on forums, differs to what the court of law says.
“Qf have recently lost or settled a few significant legal matters. This means they have been found to have broken the law. They are far from infallible.” Spot on!
It shows the importance of asking these questions in court.
As opposed to basing decisions or relying on opinion that is completely unqualified on a Qrewroom or slack/Prune. I often think it’s the case of deliberate misinformation masquerading as “just my opinion”. Often it’s an attempt to steer the opinion of the masses toward the companies position as opposed to that which would benefit or be a right of the pilot
Shows how important the legal system is proving to be.
How many times have we seen this before.
https://www.theage.com.au/business/c...03-p58fbq.html
Not ideal
Qantas to stand down 2500 employees in response to outbreaks
The decision will directly impact domestic pilots, cabin crew and airport workers, mostly in New South Wales but also in other states given the nature of airline networks.Not ideal
Join Date: Jan 2017
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These staff will also all be given two weeks notice apparently, with the stand down itself to last for eight weeks. After Sydney has been in lockdown this long, states closing borders etc I am surprised that this didn't happen sooner. As much as some people here like to slam Alan Joyce I think it's worth noting that those thousands of people have remained employed and drawing a full salary even without actually 'working' on flights which have been grounded. Or can people find something to criticise in that too?
These staff will also all be given two weeks notice apparently, with the stand down itself to last for eight weeks. After Sydney has been in lockdown this long, states closing borders etc I am surprised that this didn't happen sooner. As much as some people here like to slam Alan Joyce I think it's worth noting that those thousands of people have remained employed and drawing a full salary even without actually 'working' on flights which have been grounded. Or can people find something to criticise in that too?
Join Date: Feb 2018
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These staff will also all be given two weeks notice apparently, with the stand down itself to last for eight weeks. After Sydney has been in lockdown this long, states closing borders etc I am surprised that this didn't happen sooner. As much as some people here like to slam Alan Joyce I think it's worth noting that those thousands of people have remained employed and drawing a full salary even without actually 'working' on flights which have been grounded. Or can people find something to criticise in that too?
Generous...BS..most 737 crew stood up had close to MGH on their line. Main Line is now seen as a casualised workforce, stood up at the whim of Management, stood down at minimal notice to suit the Industrial Agenda.
Or do you mean generous, as in being paid $10 million dollars for the year, and having a large percentage of your workforce surviving on Government handouts?
QCC never can gauge the workforce, there is too many filters to drown out the real world, staff are angry at how the Ground Staff were dismissed, that are livid about how they have been treated again today. It will be bubbly and bonuses all round in the next couple of weeks when the AMAZING profit is announced.
Spare me the koolaid propaganda.
Full Salary...BS
Generous...BS..most 737 crew stood up had close to MGH on their line. Main Line is now seen as a casualised workforce, stood up at the whim of Management, stood down at minimal notice to suit the Industrial Agenda.
Or do you mean generous, as in being paid $10 million dollars for the year, and having a large percentage of your workforce surviving on Government handouts?
QCC never can gauge the workforce, there is too many filters to drown out the real world, staff are angry at how the Ground Staff were dismissed, that are livid about how they have been treated again today. It will be bubbly and bonuses all round in the next couple of weeks when the AMAZING profit is announced.
Spare me the koolaid propaganda.
Generous...BS..most 737 crew stood up had close to MGH on their line. Main Line is now seen as a casualised workforce, stood up at the whim of Management, stood down at minimal notice to suit the Industrial Agenda.
Or do you mean generous, as in being paid $10 million dollars for the year, and having a large percentage of your workforce surviving on Government handouts?
QCC never can gauge the workforce, there is too many filters to drown out the real world, staff are angry at how the Ground Staff were dismissed, that are livid about how they have been treated again today. It will be bubbly and bonuses all round in the next couple of weeks when the AMAZING profit is announced.
Spare me the koolaid propaganda.
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When you can eliminate so much cost and manipulate to ensure there's a symbol of your success.
don’t you work for JQ? So isn’t that you as well?
EBITDA, yep. But by the time they write down the value of literally everything to position themselves for transformation bonus MKII, a massive loss.
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I didn't say it was 'an act of generosity', those are your words, my point is that nobody can deny that letting these works remain on full salary for all that time while unable to perform their actual duties is pretty decent but that Qantas and Alan Joyce would probably see no acknowledgement of that here, compared to the immediate cries for blood if those workers had been stood down as soon as flights were reduced.
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I didn't say it was 'an act of generosity', those are your words, my point is that nobody can deny that letting these works remain on full salary for all that time while unable to perform their actual duties is pretty decent but that Qantas and Alan Joyce would probably see no acknowledgement of that here, compared to the immediate cries for blood if those workers had been stood down as soon as flights were reduced.