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Qantas...Post COVID

Old 5th Aug 2021, 01:46
  #581 (permalink)  
 
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Wow, P377, if juvenile retorts like that are best you can do, no wonder your actual opinions seem so ill-informed.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 02:37
  #582 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer View Post
Wow, P377, if juvenile retorts like that are best you can do, no wonder your actual opinions seem so ill-informed.
Juvenile, perhaps it is Shane. But a sensible reply would be wasted on your ridiculous notion that Alan and the Board are doing a wonderfully amazing job at Qantas when it comes to its treatment of its staff. Shane, your fellow worshippers of Lord Alan are seeking your presence so you better hurry along nowÖ..
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 03:32
  #583 (permalink)  
 
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P377, how about trying to debate the issue rather than the personalities? I know that's hard for you when playground-level insults seem to be your forte, but do tell, what is so bad about Qantas' decision to keep so many staff on salary during the past month despite demand and flights being crippled by the lockdowns? Or are you incapable of admitting that Alan Joyce and the QF execs can in fact make business decisions which are not always as evil as you like to portray?
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 03:32
  #584 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
But a sensible reply would be wasted on your ridiculous notion that Alan and the Board are doing a wonderfully amazing job at Qantas when it comes to its treatment of its staff.
Perhaps you could tell us what employer in Aus or NZ is doing an amazing job.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 03:42
  #585 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer View Post
P377, how about trying to debate the issue rather than the personalities? I know that's hard for you when playground-level insults seem to be your forte, but do tell, what is so bad about Qantas' decision to keep so many staff on salary during the past month despite demand and flights being crippled by the lockdowns? Or are you incapable of admitting that Alan Joyce and the QF execs can in fact make business decisions which are not always as evil as you like to portray?
I donít need to debate anything as my opinion remains unchanged. Iím sure the 2,500 sacked ground handlers, sacked for the purpose of saving an alleged $100m per annum wouldnít see things the way you do, Shane. And your hero Alan has been on a campaign of eroding staff numbers and conditions for many years prior to COVID. But to be fair, if you have been a shareholder or sitting up high in Mascots lofty towers you would think Alan has done an amazing job.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 04:39
  #586 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
I donít need to debate anything as my opinion remains unchanged. Iím sure the 2,500 sacked ground handlers, sacked for the purpose of saving an alleged $100m per annum wouldnít see things the way you do, Shane.
Well if I was running an airline and could save at least $100m per year by moving to outsourced contract staff, which is a model that works around the world and which has been proven to be more efficient than having your own employees who are notorious as a group for over-crewing and feather-bedding, sleeping open the job, milking the rosters to maximise penalties and overtime etc, then yes, that's exactly what I would do, and any CEO who would not do this doesn't deserve to be CEO in the first place. But it sounds to me like you're just another overly critical 'armchair airline CEO' who can't take an objective view of anything because your established prejudice gets colours your worldview.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 05:54
  #587 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer View Post
Well if I was running an airline and could save at least $100m per year by moving to outsourced contract staff, which is a model that works around the world and which has been proven to be more efficient than having your own employees who are notorious as a group for over-crewing and feather-bedding, sleeping open the job, milking the rosters to maximise penalties and overtime etc, then yes, that's exactly what I would do, and any CEO who would not do this doesn't deserve to be CEO in the first place. But it sounds to me like you're just another overly critical 'armchair airline CEO' who can't take an objective view of anything because your established prejudice gets colours your worldview.
Wow Shane, Iím sure that the ground crew that worked hard would love to hear your esteemed analysis of their alleged poor performance. If youíre not a management stooge, you should be. And I guess based on your premise, the 737 and wide body flight crew should get paid the same salary as QLink and Jetstar flight crews, yes?

I wonder how much money Qantas will save by having their aircraft damaged in outports by cheap contractors with cheap GSE and working under extreme manpower shortages? Oh thatís right, wasnít it 3 aircraft grounded nationally in one week due to GSE damage? I also wonder how Qantas feel about those pesky load control errors that have occurred exponentially since outsourcing ground operations.

Last edited by Paragraph377; 5th Aug 2021 at 07:02.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 06:39
  #588 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
Wow Shane, Iím sure that the ground crew that worked hard would love to hear your esteemed analysis of their alleged poor performance.
My comments don't apply to all of them of course but there were enough that rode the gravy train for decades and now that ride has come to an end. Same as the goings-on at the wharves until the late 90s when Patricks cleaned things out. Yes, a lot of pain and anger there but guess what, we actually ended up dragging Australia's waterfront operations into the 20th century and making them more efficient by every measure. There's simply no room in the world these days for those sorts of cushy practises of the 1950s and 1960s mindset, and I make no apologies for expecting any business, let alone one the size and important of Qantas, to be running like a business.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 07:09
  #589 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer View Post
My comments don't apply to all of them of course but there were enough that rode the gravy train for decades and now that ride has come to an end. Same as the goings-on at the wharves until the late 90s when Patricks cleaned things out. Yes, a lot of pain and anger there but guess what, we actually ended up dragging Australia's waterfront operations into the 20th century and making them more efficient by every measure. There's simply no room in the world these days for those sorts of cushy practises of the 1950s and 1960s mindset, and I make no apologies for expecting any business, let alone one the size and important of Qantas, to be running like a business.
Meanwhile, management is on the Gravy Train Express..........no stops till Retirementville.

There's simply no room in the world these days for those sorts of cushy practises of the 1950s and 1960s mindset
A rising tide is supposed to lift all boats not just C-suites.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 07:36
  #590 (permalink)  
 
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Totally agree Snoozer.
Yep, to retrench 2500 people to save $100 million is essential to the survival of our business.
To pay the CEO $10.24 million is essential for the survival of our business.

Hypocrisy doesn't even come close.

Melbourne Flyer, I, like most of the other crew I work with, wouldn't the money being saved by these decisions was re-invested in the Mainline Product- but unfortunately, it is be used to line the pockets of the Few.

And if you (as in Management) don't get it- the main issue with stand down is that Crew were FORCED to return, and give up secondary employment on the basis that they were permanently Stood Up ( and so Alliance could operate former 737 services...). Keeping us stood up was "To maintain Operational Flexibility"...DH's words, not mine...not because it was a nice gesture.

And as for Mental Health that has dominated Yammer in the last couple of weeks- the Company could not give a toss.

And yes, if EBITDA is a loss, I will say sorry, I have integrity- and admit to errors.

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Old 5th Aug 2021, 07:49
  #591 (permalink)  
 
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Street Garbage, don't misunderstand me, I am certainly not suggesting that the job of Qantas Group CEO is worth $10m per year. I think $7.5m is more appropriate, with maybe $5m for the CEOs of QF domestic and QF international. But much less than that would be hard to see working, I mean, if the CEO of Qantas Group is $5m then the CEO of each operational arm of the airline would be paid quite a bit less, eg $3m, and that's just not going to fly in today's business world.

And I also agree there needs to be more investment in the airline, be it fleet or product or lounges. But right now that $100m per year is really just going to help bring the books back into balance, not a lot in the scheme of things but it all adds up.

Last edited by MelbourneFlyer; 5th Aug 2021 at 08:46.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 08:07
  #592 (permalink)  
 
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Well, we are in a much much worse position than this time last yr. Hiw much of that runway that AJ always talks about is left? Outside of SY base you might be lucky to fly again this yr, NSW is out until next yr at the earliest.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 08:20
  #593 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
Well, we are in a much much worse position than this time last yrÖ..
​​​​​ÖÖ.Outside of SY base you might be lucky to fly again this yr, NSW is out until next yr at the earliest.
With all due respect, how can you possibly assert that? Everyone is so full of their own BS here on PPRuNe!

Talk about a glass half empty kind of person. You must be a hoot to hang around! :-)
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 09:31
  #594 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer View Post
I am certainly not suggesting that the job of Qantas Group CEO is worth $10m per year. I think $7.5m is more appropriate, with maybe $5m for the CEOs of QF domestic and QF international. But much less than that would be hard to see working, I mean, if the CEO of Qantas Group is $5m then the CEO of each operational arm of the airline would be paid quite a bit less, eg $3m, and that's just not going to fly in today's business world.
Holy crap!! So now you are an expert on CEO remuneration and what the QF Group CEOís should be paid!! Is there any part of the business that you arenít an expert on? I think you should be a financial adviser to the Qantas group rather than serving drinks to toothless grubs sitting in the back 3 rows.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 09:39
  #595 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
With all due respect, how can you possibly assert that? Everyone is so full of their own BS here on PPRuNe!

Talk about a glass half empty kind of person. You must be a hoot to hang around! :-)
Oh Iím so sorry, everything is just fine the government is doing very good and these lockdowns will be over before you know it NSW little longer about 8 weeks (I believe that but we will be so infected with covid no one will let us travel to their state).
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 11:49
  #596 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MelbourneFlyer View Post
Well if I was running an airline and could save at least $100m per year by moving to outsourced contract staff, which is a model that works around the world and which has been proven to be more efficient than having your own employees who are notorious as a group for over-crewing and feather-bedding, sleeping open the job, milking the rosters to maximise penalties and overtime etc, then yes, that's exactly what I would do, and any CEO who would not do this doesn't deserve to be CEO in the first place. But it sounds to me like you're just another overly critical 'armchair airline CEO' who can't take an objective view of anything because your established prejudice gets colours your worldview.
Outsourcing such a large portion of the workforce is nothing more than an affirmation of the failure of management and leadership. Inspired leaders take their workers on a journey to success, where slackness, milking, rorting etc are not part of the vocabulary. If that stuff creeps in, then it is a failure of management, not the workers, and management are the one's who should be replaced. Outsourcing is for technical skills, technology or capital beyond the ability of the organisation, not for lazy or inept management. Outsourcing to such an extent is fraught with danger for an organisation, loss of direct control, reliability, cost creep etc etc.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 22:06
  #597 (permalink)  
 
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When were the cash reserves supposed to be able to last until?

Was it the end of 2021?

At this rate we will be lucky if there is anything left to go back to.

MCD
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 22:16
  #598 (permalink)  
 
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I guess we will just have to wait until the 26th Aug to get a clearer picture of Qantas’s financial position.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 22:18
  #599 (permalink)  
 
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I think the last few months extended it, JQ was making a profit he last dial in we were told. But I agree we will be lucky to have a company to return to if this keeps up past 2021! NSW is out of the game for rest of the yr ppl need to realize regardless of the vaccination Gladys wants as other states will not let NSW travel there. Dan is locking Vic down weekly this is not sustainable.

Mid 2022 will see a very different country in what is left, seems Bain are tipping in more cash keeping their pilots and cabin crew paid even tho they’re not flying.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 22:30
  #600 (permalink)  
 
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Unhappy

Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
...seems Bain are tipping in more cash keeping their pilots and cabin crew paid even tho theyíre not flying.
One has to wonder for how long Bain will keep up this caper? Their track record doesn't present a pretty picture
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