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Qantas...Post COVID

Old 17th Jul 2021, 11:18
  #461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
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What Qantas should do Post...Covid.
When these friggen international borders open QF need to hit London, Paris, Frankfurt, Rome, Athens with their own metal. Like the good old days.
Fly them direct, bypass the sand pit and you will fill every seat on those 78s. People are itching and they are done with interstate border closures.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 11:33
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jrfsp View Post
To bypass Perth would need air to air refuelling on those 787s

maybe ask for those A330 MMRTs back?
I think they meant the sandpit as in the Middle East, not Perth!
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 11:37
  #463 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
I think they meant the sandpit as in the Middle East, not Perth!
ahh my mistake
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 11:43
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jrfsp View Post
To bypass Perth would need air to air refuelling on those 787s

maybe ask for those A330 MMRTs back?
Roger that. To clarify all flights originate from Perth. Perth-London has been proven, the other European cities are shorter flights.
Problem is they haven't enough 78s or A350s project sunrise thing. They need to find more pronto and if the A380s are still iffy coming back then train up all the remaining 747/A380 crews
Don't know about the union/politics on how that will work, though you got the drift of my intent.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 11:59
  #465 (permalink)  
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If only Qantas has some of those rubbish 777s
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 12:06
  #466 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
If only Qantas has some of those rubbish 777s
Old technology.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 12:20
  #467 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080 View Post
Roger that. To clarify all flights originate from Perth. Perth-London has been proven, the other European cities are shorter flights.
Problem is they haven't enough 78s or A350s project sunrise thing. They need to find more pronto and if the A380s are still iffy coming back then train up all the remaining 747/A380 crews
Don't know about the union/politics on how that will work, though you got the drift of my intent.
Short answer is that it wonít work. The problem is with the SO ranks. The pay on the 78 is complete rubbish for SOs, itís only attractive for new hires and Qantas arenít buying 350s any time soon.

12yr A380 SOs stood down, receiving IRP and AL/LSL (not including Personal Leave) are getting just under 50% of a 787 SO salary flying at MGH all year. Theyíre not far off earning the same take home as a 787 SO flying a BP on/ BP off roster.

Why would they move to the 787 voluntarily or take the risk of not being able to move after the (18 month/ more junior taking promotion) pay protection if moved involuntarily? The only way youíd get them to move is to do a RIN. Then theyíll displace off the 330 if they have any sense. And now youíve got a cascade of training.

Nice idea Turnleft, but the only way it would work is with fleet pay, and we know how that ends up.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 12:35
  #468 (permalink)  
 
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How much AL/ LSL they got left?
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 12:40
  #469 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster View Post
How much AL/ LSL they got left?
Itís accruing it at 6 weeks AL and 3/10 of a month LSL per year pro rata during stand down, so itís ongoing.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 12:44
  #470 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tucknroll View Post
Short answer is that it wonít work. The problem is with the SO ranks. The pay on the 78 is complete rubbish for SOs, itís only attractive for new hires and Qantas arenít buying 350s any time soon.

12yr A380 SOs stood down, receiving IRP and AL/LSL (not including Personal Leave) are getting just under 50% of a 787 SO salary flying at MGH all year. Theyíre not far off earning the same take home as a 787 SO flying a BP on/ BP off roster.

Why would they move to the 787 voluntarily or take the risk of not being able to move after the (18 month/ more junior taking promotion) pay protection if moved involuntarily? The only way youíd get them to move is to do a RIN. Then theyíll displace off the 330 if they have any sense. And now youíve got a cascade of training.

Nice idea Turnleft, but the only way it would work is with fleet pay, and we know how that ends up.
What a bunch of rubbish - if the company got enough 350s or more 787s most of the SOs on the 380 would take FO slots anyway.

I reckon the ones that are too junior for a slot would happily take 787 MGH pay any day over being stood down.

The SO pay on the 787 is far from rubbish - itís just not the overinflated 380 pay some may be used to.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 12:56
  #471 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
What a bunch of rubbish - if the company got enough 350s or more 787s most of the SOs on the 380 would take FO slots anyway.

I reckon the ones that are too junior for a slot would happily take 787 MGH pay any day over being stood down.

The SO pay on the 787 is far from rubbish - itís just not the overinflated 380 pay some may be used to.
Itís not rubbish, itís numbers. Part 5 section 32 of the EBA if youíve got access to it.

787 SO pay is low. Itís low, not only compared to Qantas SO rates, but also compared to the industry 787 pay. Thatís why clause 32.6 is in there, to protect current SOs to 330 average pay.

And I hardly think the argument for Ďpromotions all roundí is valid given the current situation, but thanks as always for your optimism (even if it isnít skeptical in this instance).
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 13:13
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tucknroll View Post
787 SO pay is low. Itís low, not only compared to Qantas SO rates, but also compared to the industry 787 pay. Thatís why clause 32.6 is in there, to protect current SOs to 330 average pay.
Hold on, what other airlines are out there paying substantially more to their cruise relief/SO pilots? The only others I can think of that employ cruise relief/SOs are CX and JQ, and neither of them pay more.

The conditions are appropriate for the entry level nature of the position, pre 2020 there was absolutely no shortage of applicants, plenty with jet airline experience, for recruitment onto the 787 at that pay, so the rates were appropriate at a market level.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 13:19
  #473 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Hold on, what other airlines are out there paying substantially more to their cruise relief/SO pilots? The only others I can think of that employ cruise relief/SOs are CX and JQ, and neither of them pay more.

They conditions are appropriate for the entry level nature of the position, pre 2020 there was absolutely no shortage of applicants for recruitment onto the 787 at that pay, so the rates were appropriate at a market level.
Show me an operator who pays a 787 pilot of any rank just over $100k? And weíre talking pre-covid here when the rates were negotiated. Itís even worse when you consider the take home pay of QF 787 pilots compared to the foreign contemporaries.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 14:06
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tucknroll View Post
Show me an operator who pays a 787 pilot of any rank just over $100k? And weíre talking pre-covid here when the rates were negotiated. Itís even worse when you consider the take home pay of QF 787 pilots compared to the foreign contemporaries.
But SO isnít just any other rank. Itís an entry level cruise relief job in which you donít even hold a type rating that allows you in a control seat below FL200. You canít expect pay for that role to be on par with Capt/FO ranks of any other operator.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 21:22
  #475 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
But SO isnít just any other rank. Itís an entry level cruise relief job in which you donít even hold a type rating that allows you in a control seat below FL200. You canít expect pay for that role to be on par with Capt/FO ranks of any other operator.
S/Os hold a type rating that allows them to land the plane Dre. Thereís no such thing as an S/O type rating.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 21:46
  #476 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tucknroll View Post
S/Os hold a type rating that allows them to land the plane Dre. Thereís no such thing as an S/O type rating.
Do Qantas group SOs land the aircraft? If not, the the matter of type rating is moot.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 21:59
  #477 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tucknroll View Post
S/Os hold a type rating that allows them to land the plane Dre. Thereís no such thing as an S/O type rating.
The only Qantas SOís that ďhold a type rating that allows them to land the plane,Ē are SOís that come from that type as an FO.
ie JQ 787 FO whom is now a QF 787 SO, or a CX 330 FO whom is now a QF 330 SO

All other SOís only have a cruise relief type rating which prohibits them from sitting in a control seat below 20,000í (Iím not saying an SO with the full TR can be in a control seat below 20,000í, as their full TR isnít current and the FAM prohibits it also)
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 22:03
  #478 (permalink)  
 
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Are they expected (by the company)to be able to land the aircraft if needed? If the answer is yes than thatís all that really matters.
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 23:02
  #479 (permalink)  
 
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Is it safer to have SOs rather than FOs or is it cheaper? You know what the answer is.........
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Old 17th Jul 2021, 23:27
  #480 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc View Post
Is it safer to have SOs rather than FOs or is it cheaper? You know what the answer is.........
I have no skin in this game, but if the SOs were called FOs and paid the same money would it be any safer?
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