EK suspending flights from East Coast Oz
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Not that it makes much difference with the border restrictions which have turned Australia into East Germany.
I've been in the UK for 20 years, so no major odds to me. Apart from Zoom funeral in the middle of the night, having to watch the people you can't comfort was pretty grim.
But it's bad for people like one of my former UK colleagues, an Aussie from Melbourne who came here for two years, couldn't get out of his lease when it kicked off, so had to stay and now he's not a priority case to get back. He's been crashing with distant relatives, caught COVID staying with them, got sick, put into hospital, moved to Intensive Care, currently back on a general ward but not out of trouble, only in his 30s and unclear how come it hit someone young so bad.
EK is a good example of what happens with constantly changing rules. It's not solely an Australian issue. I've been personally involved in cancelling routes where the government can't manage to be clear or consistent with border rules. It reaches the point where adherence to the regulations becomes impossible.
”I think you’ll find”
Ahhh no.....
Mate I live overseas and this topic comes up every single time I go to work. The conversation DOES NOT go like this:
”wow Australia is doing such a great job keeping the cases low, you must understand why you’re locked out of your own country”
Its more like:
”How can Australia get away with treating its citizens that way? In my country the government isn’t allowed to get away with it”
The overriding part of the conversation is about the trampling of basic human rights. There is no balance in Australia. It’s just “because of the virus” and that justifies any new bureaucratic rule, no matter the affect on people’s lives.
They also find it hard to understand why Australians don’t care for their own citizens that happen to be on the wrong side of the border.
Believe me, they’re laughing.
Ahhh no.....
Mate I live overseas and this topic comes up every single time I go to work. The conversation DOES NOT go like this:
”wow Australia is doing such a great job keeping the cases low, you must understand why you’re locked out of your own country”
Its more like:
”How can Australia get away with treating its citizens that way? In my country the government isn’t allowed to get away with it”
The overriding part of the conversation is about the trampling of basic human rights. There is no balance in Australia. It’s just “because of the virus” and that justifies any new bureaucratic rule, no matter the affect on people’s lives.
They also find it hard to understand why Australians don’t care for their own citizens that happen to be on the wrong side of the border.
Believe me, they’re laughing.
Nunc est bibendum
The whole subsidised state airline argument is a smokescreen to hide Qantas' inability to innovate with the crisis. The privately owned unsubsidised Americans, British, Japanese, Hong Kongers etc etc have maintained skeleton long haul flying, Qantas' response is more or less uniquely inadequate for a first world airline.
Australia has been pretty clear and consistent with the international* border rules for months now. I don’t like many of them but they are what they are.
(Let’s not start on the state rules. They’re a complete basket case that often change when aircraft are mid flight).
Last edited by Keg; 18th Jan 2021 at 00:39.
Nunc est bibendum
The QF 787 repatriation flights have about 170 pax on board. Howard Springs has a capacity of around 650 currently meaning there can be no more than 2 repatriation flights into Darwin per week. The numbers that will end up going to HBA and CBR has not yet been announced.
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an.other
Wow !
Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?
Or that Qantas has an obligation to run operations at a loss to salvage you ?
There has been a weird idea that has developed over the last 30 years or so that the Government and DFAT are there to rescue Australian citizens from all threats and privations that the might encounter.
They are not and they cannot.
Wow !
Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?
Or that Qantas has an obligation to run operations at a loss to salvage you ?
There has been a weird idea that has developed over the last 30 years or so that the Government and DFAT are there to rescue Australian citizens from all threats and privations that the might encounter.
They are not and they cannot.
The QF & SQ charter flights are not subsidised, nor should they be.
The QF 787’s make sense to Darwin as that’s the range, as we no without project Sunraisier there is no machine for Europe to East Coast.
SQ to Hobart and Canberra make sense as they fly from Singapore with transit pax from around the globe.
Passengers pay their way with Business, Premium & Economy fares as such.
Howard Springs there was talk of ramping up to 1000, that should happen pronto.
The QF 787’s make sense to Darwin as that’s the range, as we no without project Sunraisier there is no machine for Europe to East Coast.
SQ to Hobart and Canberra make sense as they fly from Singapore with transit pax from around the globe.
Passengers pay their way with Business, Premium & Economy fares as such.
Howard Springs there was talk of ramping up to 1000, that should happen pronto.
Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?
https://uk.embassy.gov.au/lhlh/consular.html
It is debatable about free will. Helping citizens is the reason we have a government isn't it?
Don't forget that the Yanks can use the protection of Chapter 11 when they are going 'wheels up' in which case the employees have virtually zero protection, contracts/awards are torn up with the queue (line??) starting here if you want a job at much lower rates of pay and lesser conditions. Be careful what you wish for as it wouldn't take much for Scottie from Marketing (
) and his fellow travellers to bring that kind of unconscionable regime to our shores.
) and his fellow travellers to bring that kind of unconscionable regime to our shores.
Nonetheless there are some strange long haul flights operating in January. Looking further afield Air India have started a non stop Bangalore San Francisco. Under normal circumstances this is probably a promising route linking two technology centers. But right now with California one of the worst places for Covid I wonder if they might not have waited a few months.
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But right now with California one of the worst places for Covid I wonder if they might not have waited a few months.
Fuel-Off
an.other
Wow !
Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?
Or that Qantas has an obligation to run operations at a loss to salvage you ?
There has been a weird idea that has developed over the last 30 years or so that the Government and DFAT are there to rescue Australian citizens from all threats and privations that the might encounter.
They are not and they cannot.
Wow !
Where did you ever get the idea that the Australian Government has the obligation to extract you from an unfavourable position you entered into of your own free will ?
Or that Qantas has an obligation to run operations at a loss to salvage you ?
There has been a weird idea that has developed over the last 30 years or so that the Government and DFAT are there to rescue Australian citizens from all threats and privations that the might encounter.
They are not and they cannot.
What they are asking for, is the government of their country, create a reasonable pathway for them to cross the border and enter the country.... The current system does not allow that.
Paying for quarantine.
Paying for business class tickets.
Having to buy another ticket while waiting for refunds from another airline.
Paying extra for accommodation because your ticket was cancelled and you have to wait another 3 months for a free seat.
How is any of that “save me and do it for free”.....
The reason for restricting arrival numbers is a lack of secure quarantine space. As events have now shown, capital city quarantine hotels are not leak proof.
So here’s another perspective to consider beside your own needs. There have been severe lockdowns and restrictions forced on the residents here in order to very nearly suppress the virus. Why would you expect them to throw away this sacrifice so that expat Australians can arrive willy nilly - with enhanced likelihood of bringing yet more variants of the virus here?
As a former expat for over 35 years, I never once expected to be rescued by the government. We always had funds stashed away for contingencies along with Plans A, B and C. Everyone I knew and worked with did the same. Once you become an expat, you’ve left the system and shouldn’t really have any expectation that the very system you’ve left should come and rescue you.
So here’s another perspective to consider beside your own needs. There have been severe lockdowns and restrictions forced on the residents here in order to very nearly suppress the virus. Why would you expect them to throw away this sacrifice so that expat Australians can arrive willy nilly - with enhanced likelihood of bringing yet more variants of the virus here?
As a former expat for over 35 years, I never once expected to be rescued by the government. We always had funds stashed away for contingencies along with Plans A, B and C. Everyone I knew and worked with did the same. Once you become an expat, you’ve left the system and shouldn’t really have any expectation that the very system you’ve left should come and rescue you.
If people weren't being charged $3000 a piece, I would be slightly less critical of the quarantine system. The federal and state governments have had 9 months to get an effective high capacity system in place to deal with overseas arrivals and they have utterly failed.
Tens of thousands of unused seats come into Australia every week. Thousands of rooms on military bases around Australia go unused but apparently the quarantine system is "at capacity". The quarantine of incoming Australians should have been handled by the military from day 1. You probably won't get an inner city hotel, but at least the numbers processed would be far higher that what incompetent state governments have been doing.
Tens of thousands of unused seats come into Australia every week. Thousands of rooms on military bases around Australia go unused but apparently the quarantine system is "at capacity". The quarantine of incoming Australians should have been handled by the military from day 1. You probably won't get an inner city hotel, but at least the numbers processed would be far higher that what incompetent state governments have been doing.
The reason for restricting arrival numbers is a lack of secure quarantine space. As events have now shown, capital city quarantine hotels are not leak proof.
So here’s another perspective to consider beside your own needs. There have been severe lockdowns and restrictions forced on the residents here in order to very nearly suppress the virus. Why would you expect them to throw away this sacrifice so that expat Australians can arrive willy nilly - with enhanced likelihood of bringing yet more variants of the virus here?
As a former expat for over 35 years, I never once expected to be rescued by the government. We always had funds stashed away for contingencies along with Plans A, B and C. Everyone I knew and worked with did the same. Once you become an expat, you’ve left the system and shouldn’t really have any expectation that the very system you’ve left should come and rescue you.
So here’s another perspective to consider beside your own needs. There have been severe lockdowns and restrictions forced on the residents here in order to very nearly suppress the virus. Why would you expect them to throw away this sacrifice so that expat Australians can arrive willy nilly - with enhanced likelihood of bringing yet more variants of the virus here?
As a former expat for over 35 years, I never once expected to be rescued by the government. We always had funds stashed away for contingencies along with Plans A, B and C. Everyone I knew and worked with did the same. Once you become an expat, you’ve left the system and shouldn’t really have any expectation that the very system you’ve left should come and rescue you.
I take on board the quarantine system isnt perfect but like you say the people who have lived here since it all started are entitled to be protected & dont need a repeat of the last few months(particularly in victoria & yes,the govt stuffed up big time).
Many expats would never have considered returning to oz if covid hadnt raised its ugly head & well done to them for taking the risk to go elsewhere for better employment however like you point out a plan b or c was never thought of.
Of course there are many cases of people being stranded at the moment & i cant imagine how that feels but in reality what country in the world has rules or restrictions that suit everybody at any 1 time.
Right now,a group of entitled tennis players are demanding easing of rules because they dont like them & amazingly there are people in the community that support them.
The QF & SQ charter flights are not subsidised, nor should they be.
The QF 787’s make sense to Darwin as that’s the range, as we no without project Sunraisier there is no machine for Europe to East Coast.
SQ to Hobart and Canberra make sense as they fly from Singapore with transit pax from around the globe.
Passengers pay their way with Business, Premium & Economy fares as such.
Howard Springs there was talk of ramping up to 1000, that should happen pronto.
The QF 787’s make sense to Darwin as that’s the range, as we no without project Sunraisier there is no machine for Europe to East Coast.
SQ to Hobart and Canberra make sense as they fly from Singapore with transit pax from around the globe.
Passengers pay their way with Business, Premium & Economy fares as such.
Howard Springs there was talk of ramping up to 1000, that should happen pronto.
If Howard Springs can be ramped up definitely a good idea but it cannot be an open ended expansion as some have suggested.
Some are suggesting that the longer you have been away from Australia the less entitled you are to return?
Maybe there are other parts of Australians rights we can limit based on length of residence? How about we make it a rule you don't get uni and medicare until you have lived in Australia for 10 years? Why don't we cancel citizenship of people who have lived away from Australia for 20 years?
By the time Australia is open again for business the world would have already moved on. There is a fine line between keeping some people safe and causing untold distress to others.
Maybe there are other parts of Australians rights we can limit based on length of residence? How about we make it a rule you don't get uni and medicare until you have lived in Australia for 10 years? Why don't we cancel citizenship of people who have lived away from Australia for 20 years?
By the time Australia is open again for business the world would have already moved on. There is a fine line between keeping some people safe and causing untold distress to others.
However let’s look at the sums. These were very rough figures I read a while ago before tax.
42 business x $6,000 = $252,000
28 premium x $4,000 = $112,000
102 economy x $2000 = $204,000
Total = $568,000 / 36 hours = $15,777 per hour.
Not withstanding any cargo revenue, plus they had sold seats DRW - SYD after a previous repat flight.
Even if the figures are out by 20% it shows that the sums add up.
Now try that on a 777 with 30 passengers.
Why do we need repat charters? One reason is no wide body airlines operate to Darwin, Canberra or Hobart.
