EK suspending flights from East Coast Oz
I’m so glad the government is here to save us.... NOT!
If the quarantine system was organised properly, there is already huge capacity on existing flights to uplift inbound Australians. It’s not the flights that are the issue, it’s the heavily restricted cap on arrivals.
If the quarantine system was organised properly, there is already huge capacity on existing flights to uplift inbound Australians. It’s not the flights that are the issue, it’s the heavily restricted cap on arrivals.
Somebody mentioned transits in Singapore. I understand they are only allowed within the the Singapore Airline group, SQ, Silkair, ect. No go if you want to transit from KLM to SQ in Singapore and continue on to Australia.
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
Quite right. A country cannot refuse entry of it's own citizens. However our best and brightest are circumventing this requirement by placing caps on passenger numbers on flights, this may be legal. So if you arrive at the border of Australia you will be processed into the country and not turned away. Private yacht, aircraft, drift in by way of a refugee style boat and you will allowed entry (then quarantine). A neat legal work around brought to you by our elected reps. Of course foreign nationals who play tennis...come on in.
The organisers of the tournaments are footing the bills for quarantine, testing, security, etc. not any tax payers.
So following your line it is about the money? Who pays, not the health outcomes?
Given the difficult in crossing most international borders for non-citizens of respective countries, unless you live in the city served by a “charter flight” you are screwed.
The best option was always to use airlines such as EK/Qatar because of their wide network.
So many half truths in this post:
1. "The only airline that has the capability and enforces the strictest quarantine regime under the guidance of Australian state and federal authorities is QANTAS" UNTRUE, CX and SQ have been stricter than QANTAS for the last 9 months, confining their crews to their rooms 24/7 in Australia and most other places on pain of being fired. In some ports where no room service is provided they can go as far as the lobby to pick up deliveries - only if the hotel won't bring it to the door. They were also wearing masks inflight before QF
2. "Our government would rather put subsidised state owned airlines ahead of its own national airline in order to save a few bucks". UNTRUE. QF has vacated the field since March and while ME carriers are state owned CX,Delta, American and JAL to name a some are not state owned. All have received some sort of COVID financial assistance direct or indirect - so has QF.
3."For the journos that read this forum.
Qantas crew that fly internationally are required to remain in their room whilst overseas. That is upon leaving the aircraft they travel directly to the hotel, close their room door and don’t leave their room until reporting for the next flight". TRUE - join the club, to my certain knowledge SQ and CX have been doing this for 9 months now. These airlines COVID test all crew after every return to home base and have been for many months. Australia started this only last week. These two airlines have brought zero COVID positive crew to Australia.
4."The Federal Government needs to step up and ensure that our citizens are repatriated ASAP. It’s a legal requirement to do so btw" TRUE - we are in agreement.
1. "The only airline that has the capability and enforces the strictest quarantine regime under the guidance of Australian state and federal authorities is QANTAS" UNTRUE, CX and SQ have been stricter than QANTAS for the last 9 months, confining their crews to their rooms 24/7 in Australia and most other places on pain of being fired. In some ports where no room service is provided they can go as far as the lobby to pick up deliveries - only if the hotel won't bring it to the door. They were also wearing masks inflight before QF
2. "Our government would rather put subsidised state owned airlines ahead of its own national airline in order to save a few bucks". UNTRUE. QF has vacated the field since March and while ME carriers are state owned CX,Delta, American and JAL to name a some are not state owned. All have received some sort of COVID financial assistance direct or indirect - so has QF.
3."For the journos that read this forum.
Qantas crew that fly internationally are required to remain in their room whilst overseas. That is upon leaving the aircraft they travel directly to the hotel, close their room door and don’t leave their room until reporting for the next flight". TRUE - join the club, to my certain knowledge SQ and CX have been doing this for 9 months now. These airlines COVID test all crew after every return to home base and have been for many months. Australia started this only last week. These two airlines have brought zero COVID positive crew to Australia.
4."The Federal Government needs to step up and ensure that our citizens are repatriated ASAP. It’s a legal requirement to do so btw" TRUE - we are in agreement.
Australians should be looking after Australians not some other State’s subsidised airline entity in times like these. You may want to argue the minutiae but the cold fact remains that Qantas has the capability yet has been ignored by the Liberal Government hell bent on saving a few dollars. Those dollars incidentally leave the shores of Australia for good to help prop up airlines that are state run and financed.
The likes of the ME3 and Singapore will become sidelined by the the A350-1000 and the 787 for Australians wanting to travel internationally to Europe in particular and they know it and are trying to hold onto market share no matter what. Unlike Qantas none of the airlines I’ve mentioned could survive in an open market without significant government backing.
What the f*ck is wrong with apathetic Australians whom can’t see these pariahs for what they are. Opportunists that distort the aviation market with government cash whilst Qantas staff languish on jobkeeper. What a joke. Liberal party hang your head in shame.
New Zealand has a cap on numbers, because the last thing any Covid free country wants is masses of people arriving and infecting everyone. The UK press are reporting that ALL passenger traffic into the UK will be stopped till the 15th Feb, and also that they seriously F'ed up by NOT mandating quarantine.
NZ has a booking system for your place in quarantine. It’s up to the traveller to ensure they have a booking first, then they can get on ANY flight available to get them to NZ.
This is a massive difference to the AUS system where the government “palms off” the decisions to the airlines. Also means if your specific airline makes a schedule change, you can’t just rebook a new flight with another airline that’ll probably still arrive on the same day.
There is a financial reason for those arrivals. The organisers of the tournaments are footing the bills for quarantine, testing, security, etc. not any tax payers. Similarly they are bringing in services (poor tennis pun, not intended).The same applies for lots of other groups - cricketers, film production crews, the mega-rich who've fled to see the America's Cup
“not coming home in March”
Citizens first, that’s the entire point of government. To serve the people that put them in power. That includes Australians stuck on the “wrong” side of the international border. Citizenship doesn’t end when you step off Australian soil
And your point is?
Australians should be looking after Australians not some other State’s subsidised airline entity in times like these. You may want to argue the minutiae but the cold fact remains that Qantas has the capability yet has been ignored by the Liberal Government hell bent on saving a few dollars. Those dollars incidentally leave the shores of Australia for good to help prop up airlines that are state run and financed.
The likes of the ME3 and Singapore will become sidelined by the the A350-1000 and the 787 for Australians wanting to travel internationally to Europe in particular and they know it and are trying to hold onto market share no matter what. Unlike Qantas none of the airlines I’ve mentioned could survive in an open market without significant government backing.
What the f*ck is wrong with apathetic Australians whom can’t see these pariahs for what they are. Opportunists that distort the aviation market with government cash whilst Qantas staff languish on jobkeeper. What a joke. Liberal party hang your head in shame.
Australians should be looking after Australians not some other State’s subsidised airline entity in times like these. You may want to argue the minutiae but the cold fact remains that Qantas has the capability yet has been ignored by the Liberal Government hell bent on saving a few dollars. Those dollars incidentally leave the shores of Australia for good to help prop up airlines that are state run and financed.
The likes of the ME3 and Singapore will become sidelined by the the A350-1000 and the 787 for Australians wanting to travel internationally to Europe in particular and they know it and are trying to hold onto market share no matter what. Unlike Qantas none of the airlines I’ve mentioned could survive in an open market without significant government backing.
What the f*ck is wrong with apathetic Australians whom can’t see these pariahs for what they are. Opportunists that distort the aviation market with government cash whilst Qantas staff languish on jobkeeper. What a joke. Liberal party hang your head in shame.
This is about the thousands of Australians stuck all over the world unable to get a ticket because of government policy. If the policy was good enough and they were capable of running effective quarantine with sufficient numbers, you would get your wish and QF international would be back in the air.
Qantas can’t save everyone. The best options are through the major hub carriers connecting from ports all over world. Having QF fly to these hubs and bring people back on the final leg, is about the only thing that makes sense involving QF.
Otherwise, get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact Australians just want to get home. They don’t care how it’s done, just get it done!
Troo believer: your clear bias towards anything non-QF blinds you to the fact, it’s not about QF!!
This is about the thousands of Australians stuck all over the world unable to get a ticket because of government policy. If the policy was good enough and they were capable of running effective quarantine with sufficient numbers, you would get your wish and QF international would be back in the air.
Qantas can’t save everyone. The best options are through the major hub carriers connecting from ports all over world. Having QF fly to these hubs and bring people back on the final leg, is about the only thing that makes sense involving QF.
Otherwise, get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact Australians just want to get home. They don’t care how it’s done, just get it done!
This is about the thousands of Australians stuck all over the world unable to get a ticket because of government policy. If the policy was good enough and they were capable of running effective quarantine with sufficient numbers, you would get your wish and QF international would be back in the air.
Qantas can’t save everyone. The best options are through the major hub carriers connecting from ports all over world. Having QF fly to these hubs and bring people back on the final leg, is about the only thing that makes sense involving QF.
Otherwise, get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact Australians just want to get home. They don’t care how it’s done, just get it done!
how wrong can one be! The federal and state governments have managed this situation and now emirates have said f$&# you Australia, it’s too hard. And herein lays the problem....the reliance upon foreign entities. The response, to not suggest or use the home grown advantage that Qantas has. What’s the advantage? The crews Aren’t spending the majority of their lives living in covid hotspots. The majority of covid imports have transited Dubai, Doha or crews from the relevant airlines. Yet, the Australian government continues to lump Qantas crews in the same infected bunch when it considers what should happen next.
Qantas also has a fleet that could operate a substantial network to affect the number of Australian citizens to return home. Yet the government prefers not too. It’s a disgrace. When will they put their own country and people first ffs.
I wonder what happens when one of your crew tests positive somewhere like Sydney. Long haul carriers are not going to have standby crew members everywhere. The risk of one of your pilots being quarantined or even worse falling ill at a distant outstation is not negligible if mandatory testing is introduced. Identifying non symptomatic aircrew is obviously good for Australia but complicates matters from a crewing point of view. What do you do if the captain tests positive on arrival. Obviously the other crew are high risk. Do you fly a whole new crew in or just a replacement? The whole thing becomes extremely difficult to manage.
What do you do if the captain tests positive on arrival. Obviously the other crew are high risk. Do you fly a whole new crew in or just a replacement? The whole thing becomes extremely difficult to manage.
I wonder what happens when one of your crew tests positive somewhere like Sydney. Long haul carriers are not going to have standby crew members everywhere. The risk of one of your pilots being quarantined or even worse falling ill at a distant outstation is not negligible if mandatory testing is introduced. Identifying non symptomatic aircrew is obviously good for Australia but complicates matters from a crewing point of view. What do you do if the captain tests positive on arrival. Obviously the other crew are high risk. Do you fly a whole new crew in or just a replacement? The whole thing becomes extremely difficult to manage.
Just to make it harder, VIC also require any crew that have been in quarantine (positive or not) MUST return to their home country on an empty ferry flight (no passengers) or a freight flight. So after all that drama (and despite clearing quarantine) they still can’t be used as crew for the way home!!!
Does this start to make sense why EK are pulling out of the east coast? It’s not a simple exercise when you are now talking about the entire crew being removed, plus not even able to operate home.
The entire crew goes into quarantine if one person rests positive. In QLD that’s for 14 days, in VIC it’s 10 days, I haven’t looked up NSW yet.
Just to make it harder, VIC also require any crew that have been in quarantine (positive or not) MUST return to their home country on an empty ferry flight (no passengers) or a freight flight. So after all that drama (and despite clearing quarantine) they still can’t be used as crew for the way home!!!
Does this start to make sense why EK are pulling out of the east coast? It’s not a simple exercise when you are now talking about the entire crew being removed, plus not even able to operate home.
Just to make it harder, VIC also require any crew that have been in quarantine (positive or not) MUST return to their home country on an empty ferry flight (no passengers) or a freight flight. So after all that drama (and despite clearing quarantine) they still can’t be used as crew for the way home!!!
Does this start to make sense why EK are pulling out of the east coast? It’s not a simple exercise when you are now talking about the entire crew being removed, plus not even able to operate home.
Nunc est bibendum
Icarus from the post after yours it does appear that the recovery actions would be substantially different. I am frankly surprised that so many long haul flights are still operating. I have heard from some quarters that cargo is covering the cost. But I have not seen any calculations that back this up. Hopefully the vaccination program will start to improve matters. But even the most optimistic scenario looks like months rather than weeks.
but why the need to go to Darwin? It’s only because they are incapable of running hotel quarantine at an appropriate level. I doubt the pax final destination is Darwin.
True colours? What? Not red and white with a kangaroo on the flag? Hahaha
Hong Kong is one of the few destinations we still don’t have any layovers. For this exact reason.
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but why the need to go to Darwin? It’s only because they are incapable of running hotel quarantine at an appropriate level. I doubt the pax final destination is Darwin
Fuel-Off
Pretty sure thats wrong if you are PR of australia you need permission to leave. Not sure what they would a do if you left on another passport but you must get permission to leave
If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online but you must meet at least one of the following:
If you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident you cannot leave Australia due to COVID-19 restrictions unless you have an exemption. You can apply online but you must meet at least one of the following:
A few observations for anyone (like me) who is trawling websites from time to time for reliable or updated information. Some in the forum may find my own circumstances irritating or even offensive, especially those who wish to see their friends or loved ones return from overseas. I do sympathise, but my own circumstances are what they are, and I apologise if anything in this post gets your goat.
Firstly, permanent Residents of Australia must obtain permission to leave the country, only those who are ‘ordinarily resident’ outside of Australia (as at the time of writing), and have spent more time outside Australia (than in Australia) in the 12 to 24 months prior to their Australian departure date - are able to travel overseas without gaining permission. There is a definition of ordinarily resident in the lower part of this page https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/leaving-australia
Most, therefore, will need permission.
NB In addition to the above, it would be unwise for a permanent resident to leave Australia without a valid resident return visa. The RRV typically sits alongside your permanent residence status and is what allows you to re-enter Australia. RRVs can be granted whilst the applicant is overseas, but qualification criteria exist, including having spent 2 in the last 5 years onshore, in Australia.
I do not know of a connection with “other passports” as is alluded to in this thread. I imagine, that if you have an Australian passport, you are not a permanent resident, but have the status of an Australian citizen. If that is the case, the above information may not apply, and you should verify your status before making travel plans.
Despite the non-requirement for advance travel permission for permanent residents who meet the above criteria (ordinarily resident overseas), a permanent resident wishing to leave the country must be ready to prove (at the airport) that they are ordinarily resident outside of Australia, and be prepared to be questioned at the Australian departure airport. You will be first questioned by the police, who will then direct you to the immigration dept. officers to question or clear you. The check-in staff will then call through to obtain a release number (from Canberra) before your ticket is handed to you.
My advice would be to check with a registered migration agent (MARN) before making travel arrangements or going to the airport, personal circumstances often vary, and a quick call could avoid a lot of upset and aggravation.
I have flown backwards and forwards with both SQ (very limited and complex transit situation with constantly changing rules in Singapore) and Qatar. SQ would typically be my ‘go to’ and have been for 14 years. I have booked with SQ three times since COVID hit and have had to cancel or re-scheduled twice as circumstances, rules etc. have changed. I have never flown with Qantas, or EK, but can only imagine what an EK temporary withdrawal will do to already very high prices and availability.
I flew from London to Australia in Feb ‘20 (pre-quarantine), July (quarantine) and November ’20 (quarantine), and - specifically on the last occasion - I met numerous Australians (and kiwis) in the transit area in Singapore, where many were swapping stories. I felt (frankly) ashamed that I was somehow managing to commute back and forth at a time when so many others had experienced huge challenges and stress simply trying to find or pay for a flight. I could see in the eyes of many that they had been through a very stressful experience first trying to make ends meet without a job, then finding flights, often navigating the same ‘fluid’ situation I had. Some had paid off-the-scale prices for one-way flights in economy. Others had been forced to buy business tickets they could not afford. It was a confronting situation. In some instances, the people I met had worked in travel or hospitality in Europe, and had lost their jobs at the very start of the pandemic, then waited months to find a flight or way ‘home’, for which they had been forced to beg or borrow the fair. I have heard and read horror stories of Australians stuck in London sofa surfing. One kiwi said to me "I don't care about quarantine, it will be like a holiday, and for the first time in months I can spend 2 weeks not worrying how I am going to eat".
My own commentary is to provide some first-hand experience on travel for permanent residents, but also, I hope, to shine a light on theories that a majority of Australians stuck overseas are in that situation because it suited them to remain, or that they made that choice. I am not sure that this is the case, at least it was not for those I met.
Last edited by bizflyer; 17th Jan 2021 at 16:11. Reason: lengthy post
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Keep it Capped!
I think you’ll find many other countries would applaud us on our handling of this pandemic. Let’s not forget it’s the return travellers and International visitors who are infected and bringing this virus into the country.
By keeping it capped and the incoming numbers low, the government and authorities are better able to control and handle the situation, especially if someone slips through the cracks. Which has clearly been the case in the past, and then all hell breaks loose.
When you lose a loved one to this virus, you’ll be in a far better position to question our government's decisions.
By keeping it capped and the incoming numbers low, the government and authorities are better able to control and handle the situation, especially if someone slips through the cracks. Which has clearly been the case in the past, and then all hell breaks loose.
When you lose a loved one to this virus, you’ll be in a far better position to question our government's decisions.