Quarantine for domestic crew?
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however there are crew members from other airlines who have been caught doing the wrong thing & like most things in life there are always a few who ruin it for the majority.
I see there are airlines now threatining to stop flying here because of the crew isolating requirements
Australians really are a pathetic bunch, bitch and moan about Australians living overseas, supposedly because they are 'silvertails,' if they are overseas working, they've got heaps of money, **** them, let them get themselves home. Invariably not the case. But hey, let's become the insular, ignorant, rednecks of the south pacific.
It only matters what the public perception is and the political reaction.
Aircrew are seen as being a risk now. So airline staff will be affected by this.I Can understand the public question mark over home quarantine.
Lots of positive cases from people giving it to families whilst they isolate at home and stay in a seperate room, use different bathroom etc.
And they are taking the same precautions as pilots at home are yet still passing it to family.
Question for those in the red zone of the northern beaches. Are they allowed to come to work domestically and internationally? Simulators and EP days?
How long till the next case comes from an infected Pilot or cabin crew from the epicentre of the Sydney outbreak? Going to see plenty of state border and state restrictions till a vaccine comes.Political poison if clusters keep popping up like they are doing.
Aircrew are seen as being a risk now. So airline staff will be affected by this.I Can understand the public question mark over home quarantine.
Lots of positive cases from people giving it to families whilst they isolate at home and stay in a seperate room, use different bathroom etc.
And they are taking the same precautions as pilots at home are yet still passing it to family.
Question for those in the red zone of the northern beaches. Are they allowed to come to work domestically and internationally? Simulators and EP days?
How long till the next case comes from an infected Pilot or cabin crew from the epicentre of the Sydney outbreak? Going to see plenty of state border and state restrictions till a vaccine comes.Political poison if clusters keep popping up like they are doing.
SWH;
Big whoop. You want to make it a pissing contest? I do that in a fortnight.
Not so simple answer. I had been approved on four separate occasions in the last four months, including an international flight on 15th Nov, after this new legislation was introduced where I was classified as international crew. I specifically checked the day before departure that my permit was valid and no new requirements had been introduced in light of Sydney’s situation. My status was changed AFTER I landed in Broome. Don’t try to tell me you wouldn’t be annoyed at that happening to you.
So every other country and state in Australia regards me as flight crew except WA. The ABAA also has weighed in on the debate as an “airliner” does not cover bizjets, flown either under charter or private.
Now show me where the WA legislation defines an “airliner”. “Clearly” is not acceptable, as my case illustrates. The definition of an “airliner” is and for a while in WA was subject to a non-aviation interpretation. I would bet money if you ask Joe Public what the definition is, the word “passenger” will be there.
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What, you agree with the hourly wake-up procedure? Point was until someone pointed out the problem to an outsider, the original situation persevered.
Who said I wasn’t complying with the rules? I’m in the hotel as directed until I’m released. Nothing says I have to be happy about it. Nothing says rules can’t be changed either. Look at NT’s Greater Sydney decision.
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And I bet you’re ABSOLUTELY ECSTATIC about that.
Your argument suddenly reeks of “If I can’t, then nobody else should.”
I have been doing the best part of a 8-12 international flights a month
Simple question, were you flying an airliner, medevac, or air ambulance?
Border Force
The Australian Border Force manages the process for exemptions to travel into and out of Australia and as you note aircrew are automatically exempt from requiring permission to depart/arrive in Australia.
The Australian Border Force manages the process for exemptions to travel into and out of Australia and as you note aircrew are automatically exempt from requiring permission to depart/arrive in Australia.
AFAP
The Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) believes that XXXX XXXXXXXX should be treated as “international flight crew” and an exemption from mandatory hotel quarantine applied. This approach would be consistent with his previous recent arrivals into Western Australia, each of the international jurisdictions he has flown through and all other Australian state jurisdictions.
The Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) believes that XXXX XXXXXXXX should be treated as “international flight crew” and an exemption from mandatory hotel quarantine applied. This approach would be consistent with his previous recent arrivals into Western Australia, each of the international jurisdictions he has flown through and all other Australian state jurisdictions.
I have read the document, and no where in it does it mention private aircraft, business jets etc. QF freighter aircraft clearly come under the definition of airliner.
Sure, and I have had to install apps on my phone that give authorities full access to the camera, location, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and microphone, as well as in some cases having to wear a monitoring device like a prisoner
What, you agree with the hourly wake-up procedure? Point was until someone pointed out the problem to an outsider, the original situation persevered.
I understand aviation, I also understand some people feel they are too entitled to follow the rules.
I spent Christmas by myself in isolation, not been able to see my family for 10 months
And I bet you’re ABSOLUTELY ECSTATIC about that.
Your argument suddenly reeks of “If I can’t, then nobody else should.”
Last edited by MakeItHappenCaptain; 26th Dec 2020 at 08:30.
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Spoiler
yep, you nailed it....
..I too have had to isolate, and wouldn’t want others to go down the same track at all.....to the point that proposals have been sent to Govt Departments outlining issues that can manifest with continual room isolation (pity CASA did not step up to the plate), but I would never in my wildest dreams want others to go through, or suggest they were where whinging, just because I was isolated in a small one roomed, no fresh air, no permitted contact even with the person I had just spent several hours next to in the flight deck.
Your posts are excellent, and so good to see someone articulate with the passion the subject deserves.....not so good to see some “true and inclusive” replies “cough cough” to your post.........in some the so called Aussie spirit does not reside....if it actuallu exists at all in this Government controlled Covid World!!
Cheers
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The WA premier is obviously a moron, but let’s just relax this **** will get better in about a years time, medical advice and anyone in the know , knows it. It’s the Spanish Flu all over again, took 3 years, this will take 2, get ready for it.
SWH,
Not a simple answer. You should get a job with the WA cops. You seem to have your stick inserted to the correct depth.
Didn’t need an Exempt Traveller entry because I had a valid Flight Crew permit. I had also entered and departed WA after the 14 Dec Aircrew Directions under flight crew permits previously. But according to you, the goalposts get shifted after the game and I should just say, “Thank You Sir, May I Please Have Another?”
And as for isolating for 14 days before LEAVING the country? How many international flights per month did you say you do? 2? That’s as stupid an idea as making someone travel to a major population centre to isolate (doctor’s opinion, I just agree).
If a country isn’t admitting anyone bar aeromedical, doesn’t mean I’m not considered flight crew there. They might have had quarantine requirements, but every country I’ve been to has considered me as flight crew for the last 10 years I’ve been doing this.
Actually, WA has also issued exemptions to Bizjet ops as flight crew. (Uh oh, someone else stepping on your patch...)
I shouldn’t need to take a definition to court to get a sensible result. That’s why you ask for rules to be amended.
Who said I’m not abiding by their COVID rules? If they need to be amended, the squeaky wheel gets the grease (unless you are just happy with other sectors of aviation than yours being disadvantaged. Looking more and more to be the case.)
The answer to the question on everyone’s mind (stuffed if I know why everyone would want to know) is I chose to enter Broome because it’s none of your business whatsoever, (but here’s a hint. From DPS, 700nm to BRM vs almost 1000nm to DRW. I’m sure you can work that out all by yourself...)
I’m sitting in quarantine following WA’s COVID regs exactly. You’re nuts if you think I’m the reason for tougher aircrew quarantine rules. Thank the Sydney crews and paranoid state governments for that. Flying single pilot, I’m probably less of a risk than you. I follow a COVID manual and isolate the same as you, but not with other crew or pax the whole trip. I’m trying to get a restrictive and IMO unnecessary definition changed. I’ve done nothing that could possibly make it harder to operate in WA than it already is.
You’re grateful for your job? Well I’m just trying to do mine.
Not a simple answer. You should get a job with the WA cops. You seem to have your stick inserted to the correct depth.
Didn’t need an Exempt Traveller entry because I had a valid Flight Crew permit. I had also entered and departed WA after the 14 Dec Aircrew Directions under flight crew permits previously. But according to you, the goalposts get shifted after the game and I should just say, “Thank You Sir, May I Please Have Another?”
And as for isolating for 14 days before LEAVING the country? How many international flights per month did you say you do? 2? That’s as stupid an idea as making someone travel to a major population centre to isolate (doctor’s opinion, I just agree).
If a country isn’t admitting anyone bar aeromedical, doesn’t mean I’m not considered flight crew there. They might have had quarantine requirements, but every country I’ve been to has considered me as flight crew for the last 10 years I’ve been doing this.
Actually, WA has also issued exemptions to Bizjet ops as flight crew. (Uh oh, someone else stepping on your patch...)
I shouldn’t need to take a definition to court to get a sensible result. That’s why you ask for rules to be amended.
Who said I’m not abiding by their COVID rules? If they need to be amended, the squeaky wheel gets the grease (unless you are just happy with other sectors of aviation than yours being disadvantaged. Looking more and more to be the case.)
The answer to the question on everyone’s mind (stuffed if I know why everyone would want to know) is I chose to enter Broome because it’s none of your business whatsoever, (but here’s a hint. From DPS, 700nm to BRM vs almost 1000nm to DRW. I’m sure you can work that out all by yourself...)
I’m sitting in quarantine following WA’s COVID regs exactly. You’re nuts if you think I’m the reason for tougher aircrew quarantine rules. Thank the Sydney crews and paranoid state governments for that. Flying single pilot, I’m probably less of a risk than you. I follow a COVID manual and isolate the same as you, but not with other crew or pax the whole trip. I’m trying to get a restrictive and IMO unnecessary definition changed. I’ve done nothing that could possibly make it harder to operate in WA than it already is.
You’re grateful for your job? Well I’m just trying to do mine.
Last edited by MakeItHappenCaptain; 26th Dec 2020 at 15:14.
So the answer is no, you were not a member of the crew of an airliner or a medevac or air ambulance.
This is not legislation, these are directions under the Emergency Management Act.
Do you mean approval with the form "WA Entry – Request for Approval as an Exempt Traveller" ? That form just stops you from being arrested for stepping foot in WA under the Quarantine (Closing the Border) Directions, it has nothing to bypassing isolation requirements under the Flight Crew directions, two different directions under the Emergency Management Act. I get approval under that form to enter WA, however I am still taken to the hotel under police escort, police shutting down the street while we get off the bus, and then police guarding our rooms until we leave and I meet the international crew definition under the direction.
The direction would also probably apply to you departing internationally via BME, if you have been outside Australia in the past 14 days you would need to isolate under the direction.
That is not true, a number of countries do not permit international private flights and business jets at all unless its for aeromedical purposes. Many countries have banned all flights from the UK in the past week.
Correct, crew of these aircraft should to go into isolation when entering via WA.
Doesn't need to be in legislation, the courts will take the normal interpretation of the word which has been used in the courts numerous times.
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I dont agree with lots of stuff around covid, however I don't jump up and down like an entitled prat . Their train set, their rules.
I am sure everyone is thinking why you chose to enter Australia via BME and not DRW or CNS if your going to ISA.
Not at all, I am sick and tired of people who think they are too entitled to follow the rules, and then make it harder for everyone that follows. Half the reason why things are so strict in WA is the idiots that escaped from the Quarantine hotels, everyone is now treated like a 3 year old.
I didn't enjoy spending Christmas in isolation, I made the most of it with technology to stay in touch, however I do feel grateful to still be working and getting paid.
This is not legislation, these are directions under the Emergency Management Act.
Do you mean approval with the form "WA Entry – Request for Approval as an Exempt Traveller" ? That form just stops you from being arrested for stepping foot in WA under the Quarantine (Closing the Border) Directions, it has nothing to bypassing isolation requirements under the Flight Crew directions, two different directions under the Emergency Management Act. I get approval under that form to enter WA, however I am still taken to the hotel under police escort, police shutting down the street while we get off the bus, and then police guarding our rooms until we leave and I meet the international crew definition under the direction.
The direction would also probably apply to you departing internationally via BME, if you have been outside Australia in the past 14 days you would need to isolate under the direction.
That is not true, a number of countries do not permit international private flights and business jets at all unless its for aeromedical purposes. Many countries have banned all flights from the UK in the past week.
Correct, crew of these aircraft should to go into isolation when entering via WA.
Doesn't need to be in legislation, the courts will take the normal interpretation of the word which has been used in the courts numerous times.
.
I dont agree with lots of stuff around covid, however I don't jump up and down like an entitled prat . Their train set, their rules.
I am sure everyone is thinking why you chose to enter Australia via BME and not DRW or CNS if your going to ISA.
Not at all, I am sick and tired of people who think they are too entitled to follow the rules, and then make it harder for everyone that follows. Half the reason why things are so strict in WA is the idiots that escaped from the Quarantine hotels, everyone is now treated like a 3 year old.
I didn't enjoy spending Christmas in isolation, I made the most of it with technology to stay in touch, however I do feel grateful to still be working and getting paid.
Of course none of us like the rules but they are what they are,i can imagine how hard it is for pilots & cabin crew right now not knowing if your next flight will actually go ahead.
I understand this guy being upset with changing rules & requirements just like most of us here in victoria were during severe lockdown & a curfew only a few months back.
We all know who caused our situation however they turned things around & we like the result.
The rules changed many times for us & the vast majority have complied & we have all had a relatively restriction free xmas which we have enjoyed.
I too am sick & tired of people who wont follow rules & of course its a tiny minority but can have a massive result,i understand our captain who is not happy probably has some valid issues however with regard to the rest of the world right now we are probably doing ok.
I have relatives in the netherlands who right now are getting 10000+ cases a day & they have told me that the people just ignore rules & do whatever they want.
They are the ones who just dont get it in my opinion.
I emailed numerous WA Departments regarding what I thought was an issue with the domestic flight crew exemptions in WA. Many of us travelled in and out of the state numerous times over the past few months however provided we left every 11 days there was no test requirement. I suggested why don’t we do something similar to truck drivers and get tested every 7 days (and not have to quarantine after testing provided we’re not sick). The best response I got was from WAPOL saying “consider myself lucky I don’t have to quarantine” 😑 muppets
And that, my friend is the only reason the AFAP haven’t started a media campaign.
It’s not like I went out for a latte at Broome’s renowned park cafe. I could honestly defend any decision for me to isolate at home instead of a hotel on the other side of the country to a reporter. When it comes down to it, I isolate, I get tested.
ps. Stop getting hung up on DPS. I never said I stayed there.
It’s not like I went out for a latte at Broome’s renowned park cafe. I could honestly defend any decision for me to isolate at home instead of a hotel on the other side of the country to a reporter. When it comes down to it, I isolate, I get tested.
ps. Stop getting hung up on DPS. I never said I stayed there.
Last edited by MakeItHappenCaptain; 27th Dec 2020 at 14:31.
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We are dealing with 7 little countries basically in Australia and it is a cluster in dynamic proportions. They do not communicate with each other and have their pathetic rules completely different state by state. This $hitfight will continue through 2021 IMO, get used to it, just finished my seventh quarantine period and 19th COVID test....and I’m not even international, only domestic. This won’t end until 2023 at the earliest.
So now we are no longer in isolation, they have changed the term to detention. Not allowed to talk to anyone, no contact with airline, $20,000 individual fine for anyone who breaches.
My heartfelt thanks to those who couldn’t follow the basic rules before and make it harder now for everyone.
”If individuals refuse or fail to comply with the directions and requirements set out in this Detention Notice, the current penalty for an individual is $19,826.40.
If you have questions about the quarantine program or you detention notice
• Flight and freight crew should refer to information pack provided referencing supports available during quarantine, or contact guest services via hotel phone if further information is required.
• An Authorised Officer must review your detention at least once every 24 hours for the period of detention to determine whether your continued detention is reasonably necessary to eliminate or reduce a serious risk to public health.”
My heartfelt thanks to those who couldn’t follow the basic rules before and make it harder now for everyone.
”If individuals refuse or fail to comply with the directions and requirements set out in this Detention Notice, the current penalty for an individual is $19,826.40.
If you have questions about the quarantine program or you detention notice
• Flight and freight crew should refer to information pack provided referencing supports available during quarantine, or contact guest services via hotel phone if further information is required.
• An Authorised Officer must review your detention at least once every 24 hours for the period of detention to determine whether your continued detention is reasonably necessary to eliminate or reduce a serious risk to public health.”
Last edited by swh; 31st Dec 2020 at 23:14.
