Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Quarantine for domestic crew?

Old 20th Dec 2020, 11:41
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post
Again, NO. You miss the point entirely.
  • 1 crew member lives in a country riddled with COVID. Every day they are being exposed to possible sources of infection; at the supermarket, at a cafe, at the shops, etc. They feel fine, have no reason to be tested so they hop on a flight to Australia.
  • An Australian crew member lives in a country where a week ago we had virtually eliminated COVID. They have almost no possible way to catch it when not at work. They then fly off to a hotel room overseas and interact with a only a handful of people whilst always wearing a mask. They now fly home to quarantine at home.

Clearly the ‘risk profile’ is very different between the two.
On top of which, crew from certain other countries may not be particularly keen to abide by Australian requirements.
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 11:50
  #22 (permalink)  
Keg

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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post
Again, NO. You miss the point entirely.
  • 1 crew member lives in a country riddled with COVID. Every day they are being exposed to possible sources of infection; at the supermarket, at a cafe, at the shops, etc. They feel fine, have no reason to be tested so they hop on a flight to Australia.
  • An Australian crew member lives in a country where a week ago we had virtually eliminated COVID. They have almost no possible way to catch it when not at work. They then fly off to a hotel room overseas and interact with a only a handful of people whilst always wearing a mask. They now fly home to quarantine at home.

Clearly the ‘risk profile’ is very different between the two.
Agreed. There is also the fact that I sanitise my hands immediately after interacting with any one at all. Hand my passport to someone? Have sani wipe ready to wipe it down when I get it back from them and then sanitise my hands. Get a room key? Have a sani wipe ready to wipe it down and then sanitise my hands. Anyone who thinks the risk profile of a US pilot coming to Australia is the same as an Aussie pilot going to HKG, NRT (or even the USA) and then home undertaking home isolation has little idea as to how crew are managing this when away from home.
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 12:04
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Are returning Australian based international crew COVID tested, or regularly tested?
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 12:24
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The The View Post
Are returning Australian based international crew COVID tested, or regularly tested?
Yes. Tested around day 12. Only come out of isolation on day 14 if you’ve passed it. If you don’t get tested then it’s 28 days of isolation.
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 19:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry but I can't agree with some of the posts above. As I mentioned I won't go into the specifics of a particular operation but if an Australian based crew member is exposed to the virus whilst outside the country they pose exactly the same risk as an exposed non-Australian based crew member in terms of bringing the virus into Australia. How they are handled when they arrive alters how far and wide the virus may spread.

What did happen is the Australian could leave the airport and self isolate at home (possibly exposing other people), the foreign based individual went to a crew hotel to self isolate (low risk if they follow the established rules). If the Australian based person returned as a passenger to NSW then they went into mandatory hotel quarantine (very low risk).

So with the latest changes (latest published information is dated the 17th), if you re-enter as a passenger (having been an operating crew member outbound) you go to hotel quarantine, foreign based you go to hotel quarantine, but if you are Australian based and operate back into Australia you can self isolate at home. It seems odd that the individual that positioned home is treated differently to the one that operated. Australian based crew are just as likely to bend/break the rules as foreign based crew

Given all the rumors (and that is all they are at this stage) that the "Avalon Cluster" was started by a returned crew member it seems inconsistent that aircrew are handled differently depending on their operating capacity and country of residence.

BTW, can anybody determine if a resident of the Northern Beaches can now go to Melbourne to do a sim?
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 19:38
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Could it have been an Australian based aircrew/cabin crew! These guys are able to isolate at home after their duty. At the height of the Melbourne 2nd wave I was talking with a crew member who was paxing to Sydney (Melbourne based) fly internationally enter back via Sydney and then pax back to Melbourne no quarantine in SY and paxing on a flight full of pax no less than hrs after arriving. That there is the loop hole, if you want to wok you have to agree to hotel quarantine thats how it should be moving forward the risk is to great top everyone else.
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 21:51
  #27 (permalink)  
Keg

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Originally Posted by dartman2 View Post
...if an Australian based crew member is exposed to the virus whilst outside the country...
The various departments of health have looked at the procedures in place for Australian crew heading overseas and have determined that the likelihood of this occurring is very, very low. Certainly significantly lower than for a crew member who lives in the overseas community. Not so low as to be impossible which is why they allow home isolation but low enough that the isolation at home is considered to be good risk mitigation.

Sure, IF a crew member picks up Covid overseas then yes, it’s likely to enter the home... which is why you find Aussie crew members being very diligent when overseas about hand sanitisation and isolating in hotel rooms. I’ve no desire to pass Covid to my family and/or be Patient Zero for a new outbreak in my area. Keep in mind we’ve had crew members doing this home isolation thing since May with no virus jumping the fence yet.

There certainly is some mind bending logic in the current rules. Eg having operated back internationally I can’t operate a domestic passenger flight but I can operate a domestic freighter and then passenger back to my home port. SYD-MEL-SYD with pax.... bad. SYD-MEL with freight and then pax back to SYD.... good.

Originally Posted by dartman2 View Post
Given all the rumors (and that is all they are at this stage) that the "Avalon Cluster" was started by a returned crew member...
Really? I’ve not heard that said directly. I’m hearing it was a rich couple who were exempted to self isolate at home for health reasons and subsequently didn’t.

Oh, and what is your solution dartman? Aussie crew in permanent hotel quarantine for months at a time? Already we’ve got crew who have endured north of four months of home isolation. Now you’re going to stick them into a hotel for that duration?
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 22:06
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post

Aussie crew in permanent hotel quarantine for months at a time? Already we’ve got crew who have endured north of four months of home isolation. Now you’re going to stick them into a hotel for that duration?
Well yes! majority are following the rules I know first hand of a few that quickly have gone to a supermarket or went for a run no biggie they reckon.

Having a small number of crew in hotel quarantine on their return is a far better soloution than an entire country closed off to a state and millions being affected. If crews are not willing to accept that inform your employer and they will go further down the list.

Australian base airlines need an opt in system so you know you will be living in a hotel for the foreseeable future, it only takes one to pass it on to stop it all.

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Old 20th Dec 2020, 22:33
  #29 (permalink)  
Keg

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So what about those working at the quarantine hotels? It only takes one crew member to cough on them or to touch them and they’ve got Covid. They’re at risk also. Should they be required to isolate at hotels whilst ever they are doing that job? The cleaners of those hotels? Are they required to isolate every night and weekend for months? They’re much higher risk of contracting Covid than Aussie crew over nighting and returning from SIN, PVG, NRT and HKG!

What about the nurses working at Covid clinics? Overseas and in Victoria the health workers were decimated by Covid. They return home each night. They don’t even have to isolate after their shift or on their days off but continue out into the community at will.

You position holds no logic. It doesn’t consider the ‘risk’ that crew are facing when going overseas (or how we mitigate that risk) when compared to foreign crew who reside there, and it doesn’t take into account the precautions we are taking in our own homes when in isolation. It appears your position comes from ignorance.
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 23:20
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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There is also the fact that I sanitise my hands immediately after interacting with any one at all. Hand my passport to someone? Have sani wipe ready to wipe it down when I get it back from them and then sanitise my hands. Get a room key? Have a sani wipe ready to wipe it down and then sanitise my hands.
Bit of a point being missed here, if all people showed the same consideration to others and commitment and responsibility for personal hygiene we wouldn't be in this mess.

Humans are selfish and disgusting at times.
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Old 20th Dec 2020, 23:22
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Given all the rumors (and that is all they are at this stage) that the "Avalon Cluster" was started by a returned crew member
That's all it is, a rumour. The Health Minister said that they do not believe that is the case. They could easily track which crew have operated in, where they live and access their day 12 COVID test result.

Additionally, genomic testing has shown it is highly likely the infection arrived from the US. Now take a look at who flies to Australia from the US. The only service that Qantas operates is a single weekly LAX-BNE freight service crewed by BNE based pilots. So while there may be many Qantas crew living on the northern beaches, none of them are flying to the US where this particular cluster has seeded from.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 00:10
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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How many 330 SOs were scared on to LWOP under the threat of CR?
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 00:13
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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15 new cases in NSW. I believe that NSW is the probably the state in Australia best equipped to manage a significant breakout. Christmas and NY will probably be a write off for most of Sydney and large parts of NSW, but they’ll nip this in the bud. Who knows if Victoria has learnt it’s lesson and has the correct procedures in place to manage another breakout. It’s pretty obvious that both Queensland and WA wouldn’t be able to manage a large outbreak, and PalaceChook and McGowan both know it.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 00:36
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ruprecht View Post
How many 330 SOs were scared on to LWOP under the threat of CR?
enough that they've had to call some back
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 01:49
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brokenagain View Post
15 new cases in NSW. I believe that NSW is the probably the state in Australia best equipped to manage a significant breakout. Christmas and NY will probably be a write off for most of Sydney and large parts of NSW, but they’ll nip this in the bud. Who knows if Victoria has learnt it’s lesson and has the correct procedures in place to manage another breakout. It’s pretty obvious that both Queensland and WA wouldn’t be able to manage a large outbreak, and PalaceChook and McGowan both know it.
Don't even need to go to page 2 of a google search to see WA is pretty honest with its COVID preparedness . Not so easy to find such data from other states.

https://audit.wa.gov.au/wp-content/u...eparedness.pdf




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Old 21st Dec 2020, 02:16
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by maggot View Post
enough that they've had to call some back
Unbelievable.

The SOs that the company REALLY wanted to take LWOP are on the A380, but they’re all stood down and accruing leave.

Brilliant...

Last edited by ruprecht; 21st Dec 2020 at 02:53.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 02:19
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Yes. Tested around day 12. Only come out of isolation on day 14 if you’ve passed it. If you don’t get tested then it’s 28 days of isolation.
Isn't that a NSW thing only? I can't find reference to that for aircrew in Victoria...
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 07:13
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
So what about those working at the quarantine hotels? It only takes one crew member to cough on them or to touch them and they’ve got Covid. They’re at risk also. Should they be required to isolate at hotels whilst ever they are doing that job? The cleaners of those hotels? Are they required to isolate every night and weekend for months? They’re much higher risk of contracting Covid than Aussie crew over nighting and returning from SIN, PVG, NRT and HKG!

What about the nurses working at Covid clinics? Overseas and in Victoria the health workers were decimated by Covid. They return home each night. They don’t even have to isolate after their shift or on their days off but continue out into the community at will.

You position holds no logic. It doesn’t consider the ‘risk’ that crew are facing when going overseas (or how we mitigate that risk) when compared to foreign crew who reside there, and it doesn’t take into account the precautions we are taking in our own homes when in isolation. It appears your position comes from ignorance.
It is not a normal hotel stay - quarantine persons should have zero contact with others.

They do not bring the food in your room and ask if they can do anything else for you - it is left at the door.

You remain in your room.

It is not a holiday with a gym and bar.

If you are getting different treatment than isolation, then that should be reported.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 09:44
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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If you want to know how COVID testers operate in hotels, this is what they do.

Full PPE at all times except when removed for a break. They work in pairs with one person designated as tester and one for preparing and recording. Everything touched is strictly one-way. They don’t hand stuff back and forth. At the end of each floor or anytime they may have been sneezed on or feel compromised (touched by guest etc) they change out all their PPE. They are never alone.

i don’t think the same protocols could be observed by aircrew. Different risk profile, different control measures, it is illogical to argue one way or the other by comparing completely different circumstances or occupations.

Currently, Australian based aircrew can return from overseas and jump straight on a domestic flight to their home base to then isolate. I find that disturbing. I also don’t like home isolation as a critical control method as it relies too much on an individual doing the right thing. If there are other strong control methods in place, then home isolation is fine.
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Old 21st Dec 2020, 12:23
  #40 (permalink)  
Keg

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I wasn’t talking about Covid testers at hotels. I was talking about Covid testers at clinics in the community and the perception of risk. Some seem to be advocating that Aussie crew should be isolating in quarantine hotels for months at a time in between flights in Australia. Ludicrous given who crew interact with when overseas.

If people feel that sort of quarantine is appropriate for Aussie crews due to ‘the risk’ then there are many others working in the field who are similar (or even higher risk) who should be being quarantined also.

The Covid risk to Australian based crew in PVG, NRT, HKG and SIN is so insignificant that it’s likely there is a higher chance of catching Covid on the northern beaches than in those ports.
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