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Brisbane Airport 01L/19R Noise and Community

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Brisbane Airport 01L/19R Noise and Community

Old 21st Nov 2020, 02:45
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Brisbane Airport 01L/19R Noise and Community

Quite the effort going on here in the background.


Go to or Google: Facebook Brisbane Airport Aircraft Noise (can't post URL)

Last edited by DROPS; 3rd Jan 2021 at 09:29.
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 03:45
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Originally Posted by DROPS View Post
Quite the effort going on here in the background.

Some interesting points have in fact been raised, but wow - there are some crazy ideas about how flying a plane works out there!

Go to or Google: Facebook Brisbane Airport Aircraft Noise (can't post URL)
'DROPS' is this the one you want ????- it, is a 'group/closed' forum.

Link here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BrisAirportNoiseAction/

rgds
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 20:56
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Anyone know when the original master plan came out? I know bob hawke opened the airport and dual runways were always envisaged even back then. I’m sure this latest group of plane lovers would be fully aware of its existence and the impact this planned development from over 30 years ago would have on their lifestyles.....
is there a decent violin shop in bulimba or Hamilton?
Zero sympathy
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 22:30
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Originally Posted by hotnhigh View Post
is there a decent violin shop in bulimba or Hamilton?
You can pick up an Eastman or Vivo from Riffs and Licks at Newstead (https://www.riffsandlicks.com.au/) and get a good look at traffic using the new runway from out the front of the shop.
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 22:38
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You need to wonder if these "educated" folk ever thought about why the tower is where it is. There's a bit of a clue there. I can remember looking at ANEF contours in ACC deliberations in 1986 and some years later driving past new schools and the like well within the contours considered unsuitable for such development.

Bit like residential land beside a bombing range being sold at weekends and sign boards notifying flight paths being covered during the construction of Tullamarine.

Real Estate agents rule!! .

MJG
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 22:57
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As a Newstead resident, I can't say I've noticed a great deal of difference. We had the Brekky Crk arrival prior to the new runway opening and now the RNP for 01L which takes aircraft about the same distance from our building but to the south. Strangely, most of the complaints are about arrival aircraft noise, with very few complaints about departures off 19R, where aircraft are higher but also at higher thrust and if anything, marginally more noticeable.

Motor vehicle traffic and construction noise are far greater concern and considerably noisier than aircraft at approach thrust and a consistent height over New Farm park.

I am surprised though, that greater use is not made of the Brekky Crk to Hamilton reach of the river, even to 01L.
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 23:48
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At least today's traffic consists of B737-8/777/787/A320s to A380s as compared to Concords/VC-10/BAC-111/B707/727/DC-9s real kero burners.
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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 00:06
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HH: from Memory1976 (may have been 1974) Concept Q to cost $250 million to be completed in 2005 with all 3 runways.

Runway directions changed from 22/04 to enable Lord Mayor Clem Jones to increase the city building heights. (at the time the highest building which was just outside the splay had the advertising sign on top secured with frangible bolt which I understand is common practice. (35ft below the splay required height.)

The airport was to be `curfew free'

The bureaucrats, (i.e. clerks) academics and economists considered it sound economic practice to take the time until 2005 building the airport even though this involved spending another $197 million to expand and keep the old airport going until sufficient of the new airport could tkae over.

However:
The construction of Hong Kong International Airport at Chek Lap Kok was one of the biggest operations in the industry. The core programme cost more than $20bn and involved four major sponsors, ten separate projects, 225 construction contracts and over 1,000 critical interfaces.The airport covers 12.48km² of reclaimed land between the two islands of Chek Lap Kok and Lam Chau. The airport increased the land area of Hong Kong by 1%. The airport opened for business in July 1998, having taken just six years to build.



Beijing Daxing International Airport opened for operations in September 2019, following more than four years of construction. The new Daxing airport will serve as north China’s commercial aviation hub.

The Government of China announced the long-awaited approval for the construction of a new international airport in January 2013. The new airport is located in Daxing, a suburb district south of the city. It reduces congestion at the existing airport and caters to the needs of Beijing passengers.

Beijing Daxing airport was developed at a cost of CNY120bn (U$17bn approximately), while the projects in its periphery attracted investments of CNY330bn (U$46.2bn approximately).Brisbane Airport's new runway is 3.3 kilometres long

It took more than 15 years of planning and construction


Brisbane Airport's new runway is 3.3 kilometres long

It took more than 15 years of planning and construction
Cost: $1.3 billion for a runway

Noise Considerations: As pointed out below full noise profiles, flight paths were all considerd, planned.and Published
Over 40 years as Boeing research indicates enviromental effects of aircraft DECREASED by 70% in this time including noise.

Last edited by HillpigSmytheIII; 22nd Nov 2020 at 22:32. Reason: more facts
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Old 22nd Nov 2020, 00:33
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Originally Posted by hotnhigh View Post
Anyone know when the original master plan came out? I know bob hawke opened the airport and dual runways were always envisaged even back then. I’m sure this latest group of plane lovers would be fully aware of its existence and the impact this planned development from over 30 years ago would have on their lifestyles.....
is there a decent violin shop in bulimba or Hamilton?
Zero sympathy

Two things, the parallel runway was certainly on the original master plan and noise footprints were published. I was on the industry panel that was created before work started. Of course the Govt neddies knew all the answers. I suggested that once they built the first runway at least pretend to start work on the parallel as noise complaints will come. Their view was and is the issues were put out in public in the late 80's...Animato Strings in Eagle Farm on KSD is a great violin place...
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 19:58
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Closed Facebook group presumably so they can mumble amongst themselves?
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Old 23rd Nov 2020, 23:24
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The IQ of some FB group users is questionable. One asked why some planes take longer to take off than others🙄
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Old 24th Nov 2020, 00:24
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Originally Posted by tail wheel View Post
Closed Facebook group presumably so they can mumble amongst themselves?
Quite right. It is an echo chamber where seemingly any posts/posters that aren't aligned with the central theme are removed. There have been quite a number of posts where pilots, ATCs, or people with some aviation knowledge have presented facts, explanations, etc and it is either shouted down or removed and seems to result in the poster getting booted from the group. A common reply from the group administrator to these posters is along the lines of "so what solution are you providing?", even if the person is just trying to help by providing some factual explanations of YBBN ops, history, aircraft operating limitations, etc.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to their plight and there are definitely better solutions regarding SID/STAR design, flexibility of runway use, etc that pilots, ATC, airlines, and community would all be happier with, but I don't think they're helping their cause by shunning those who have some technical knowledge and could possibly help lobby from the industry perspective.
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Old 24th Nov 2020, 00:27
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Originally Posted by Climb150 View Post
The IQ of some FB group users is questionable. One asked why some planes take longer to take off than others🙄
Exactly. There's also a lot of questions and complaints about why the aircraft are 'so low'...... from people <4-5NM from touchdown. They should see how low the aircraft is at 1NM!!!
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Old 3rd Dec 2020, 14:32
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ABC radio yesterday morning. Need to fast forward to about the 90min market or so.

Apparently making aircraft stick to the flight path and increased landing tailwinds are the answer according to Trevor Evans MP.

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/brisban...nings/12921474
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Old 17th Dec 2020, 21:53
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Looks like the fake news virus is spreading! (Can't post link - go to Brisbane Times> brisbane-airport-cracks-down-on-planes-veering-off-flight-paths

Brisbane Airport Corporation has been forced to demand pilots stick to approved routes after an Airservices Australia investigation found some planes had been flying outside permitted flight paths.

The move, after six months of noise complaints from residents, was confirmed late on Thursday by Airservices Australia, which oversees operation of the nation’s airports.
Turboprops have been flying outside approved flight paths in and out of Brisbane Airport.

Federal, state and local LNP politicians wrote to Airservices Australia in September asking chief executive Jason Harfield to investigate complaints that pilots were making “visual approaches to the runway”, taking “short-cuts over the inner city”, and not following approved flight paths.

On Thursday, Airservices Australia confirmed the COVID-19 pandemic meant fewer flights used Brisbane’s new parallel runway and turboprop aircraft were approaching the airport from outside the wide, approved flight paths over the city.
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“This includes a greater spread of turboprops outside the ‘swathe’ of operations than we expected,” a spokeswoman said.

“Turboprops use a mix of jet and non-jet flight paths, including visual approaches.
Brisbane Airport flight paths when there is a northerly wind.CREDIT:BAC

“A visual approach is when a pilot is operating the aircraft by visual references. This approach can therefore vary by several kilometres.”

The changes, which come into force on Friday, include a new noise abatement procedure for Brisbane Airport.

“This temporary procedure will be in place until operations increase to both runways, which will then result in a similar traffic management outcome,” the spokeswoman said.

Federal Brisbane MP Trevor Evans, one of the politicians who wrote to Airservices Australia – along with state MP Tim Nicholls and councillor David McLachlan – said the change meant new instructions would be issued to air traffic controllers to stop pilots deviating from approved flight paths.

“This new procedure could significantly reduce the number of planes that are currently short-cutting and deviating from approved flight paths as they approach the runway,” Mr Evans said.

He said the major problem was from aircraft arriving from mining towns and from northern and regional Queensland.

“They have been allowed to approach on a visual, meaning they haven’t been required to so strictly stick to the approved flight paths.”

Mr Evans has also asked the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to review tail-wind restrictions, which can prevent aircraft from flying over Moreton Bay rather than populated areas.
In July, soon after the new parallel runway opened, residents began to complain that aircraft noise was intolerable in Balmoral, Morningside, New Farm, Hawthorne, Cannon Hill, Hamilton and Hendra.

In the first fortnight of operation, there was a seven-fold increase in complaints, many from suburbs that did not expect aircraft to fly overhead.

By August, residents were complaining of “horrendous” noise, with up to seven overhead flights in 10 minutes, telling Brisbane Times planes appeared to be flying lower than they were led to believe they would.

By October, residents were taking their own decibel readings of overhead aircraft, as the number of complaints increased tenfold to 311 in one month.

Most turboprop aircraft from Brisbane Airport are operated by Qantas’s regional subsidiary, QantasLink.

A Qantas spokesman said: “All QantasLink pilots follow the approved flight paths provided by Airservices Australia.”

A Brisbane Airport Corporation spokeswoman confirmed pilots were making visual approaches to the airport.

She said there had been greater flexibility for pilots to choose flight paths because COVID-19 had reduced the expected number of flights at the airport.

“As a result, in percentage terms, there has been a greater use of visual approaches north of the river from turboprop aircraft,” she said, adding that this did not mean the airport was operating outside its 2007 approvals.

Mr Evans said allowing a significant number of aircraft to deviate from the approved flight paths was contrary to the terms and spirit of the environmental impact study.
A turboprop plane flies over Peter Moorhouse in Hamilton.CREDIT:TONY MOORE

Long-term Hamilton residents Deidre Stringer and Peter Moorhouse are used to aircraft noise but said the noise overhead had become far worse since the new runway opened in July.

Both want Airservices Australia and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to review the 2007 approvals for the new runway and how it is operating.

“I think that is a good idea because by my understanding, they are not at the moment, and some of the airlines are doing their own thing to save money on [aviation] petrol,” Ms Stringer said.

During a 50-minute interview with Mr Moorhouse, there were nine loud overhead flights.

“I really think residents would just like a fair go and have a good quality of life, because that is why we all live here in Queensland,” he said.




Last edited by etrust; 17th Dec 2020 at 22:08.
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Old 17th Dec 2020, 22:15
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I think the locals have become accustomed to the lack of aircraft during COVID. Now that things are returning to 'normal', they perceive it is a result of the new runway opening.
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Old 17th Dec 2020, 22:38
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Simple people have simple solutions to complex problems.

So much for flexible and efficient use of infrastructure, bye bye track shortening and hello again to the eventual delays as things pick up.

CC
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Old 17th Dec 2020, 23:56
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With populists like the current QLD premier and her servile deputy (he always looks like he is about to cry), you would worry that a sudden decision to impose a curfew ids not out of the question for BNE.
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Old 18th Dec 2020, 00:36
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Has the Qld government figured out that you can fly these aircraft into YSSY in the curfew period yet?
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 19:57
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Just one of the legitimate concerns from a member;
I am now forced to rely on tank water polluted by aircraft emissions as my only source of drinking water. We wouldn’t be allowed to drink tank water if vehicle emissions were an issue but it’s ok to have 10 times more aircraft directly over my house than cars past it. Most organic material can be filtered out of drinking water while aviation fuel cannot. It’s disgraceful. I can’t believe this is allowed to happen.
Is this person living next to the Airport DFO or do airlines now dump fuel on takeoff/landing as standard procedure?
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