Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qatar disgrace

Old 27th Oct 2020, 00:24
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,783
Received 44 Likes on 20 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisVJ
I don't have a dog in the race but:
What were the alternatives?

Question no one has offered an answer to here. What would have happened if a baby had been discovered in a bathroom at Sydney Airport next to aircraft departing for Doha with mainly Arab passengers? (Or given the world's taboos about offending Muslims, Australian passengers.)
It would NOT involve doing an intrusive exam of EVERY WOMAN. Western justice has the notion of reasonable suspicion before detaining someone, let alone doing this- simply being female is not reasonable grounds.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 00:26
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,783
Received 44 Likes on 20 Posts
Originally Posted by KeyPilot
Sure, you (and anyone else) are free to agree or disagree, that is the nature of debate. However I would take issue with the claim that I "dismiss the whole incident as a trivial matter". I most certainly do not. You will see that primarily I have called for more evidence before reaching a conclusion; but also have sought to consider a balance between the rights of the women in question, versus the rights of the local authorities to investigate a potentially serious crime, which has as its victim one of the most vulnerable people one could care to imagine. Most previous posters seemed to dismiss the latter - I don't.

KP
But their only criteria for suspecting someone, and subjecting then to a hugely intrusive search, is that they were female.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 00:58
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by The96er
I think most men - certainly those in the civilised world would fundamentally disagree with you. I for one would find it utterly repugnant at being forced into such a situation. The fact that you seem to dismiss the whole incident as a trival matter is somewhat concerning.
what he said. This is a gross violation of human rights, absolutely disgusting, the fact that some think it is acceptable is mind boggling. I feel desperately sorry for the woman involved.
fly1981 is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 01:17
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nirvana..HAHA..just kidding but,if you can tell me where it is!
Posts: 350
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Definitely worthy of cross post to Rumours and News,if verified correct..
Yaw String is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 01:22
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sfo
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
In an investigation of a serious offence in "Western" countries (of which, one supposes, most of us here are citizens), it is common for people to be arrested, detained for several days, repeatedly questioned, released on bail (with significant restrictions on their liberty), even if they are ultimately not charged with any crime. Do we think the treatment of some passengers on this flight was significantly worse than this?
They rounded up females and subjected them to invasive searches reportedly without explanation.. like another poster said not sure you would have the same carefree attitude if it was your wife or daughter and a crime just happen to have occurred in their vicinity....Yes I do think that is significantly worse... this was not a pat down for weapons.

Common for people to be arrested, detained and questioned for days because a crime happened in their vicinity? Not sure where you live but people being arrested and detained for days on mass in Australia because they were in the vicinity of a crime is not something I’ve seen.

100% agree it’s their country and therefore their laws and customs apply, doesn’t mean we need to accept it.
Superman1 is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 01:27
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Coal Face
Posts: 1,286
Received 316 Likes on 121 Posts
Originally Posted by KeyPilot
You will see that primarily I have called for more evidence before reaching a conclusion; but also have sought to consider a balance between the rights of the women in question, versus the rights of the local authorities to investigate a potentially serious crime, which has as its victim one of the most vulnerable people one could care to imagine.
"Balance" in a country that sees Sharia law as the underpinning legal mandate? You need to read the audience mate. You are having a laugh.

I have read this article, and I don't find anything therein to be particularly shocking.
Spoken like a bloke.

If there were only 9 female pax on the flight (out of a total of 34 - wow that's a low load factor) and the location of the toilet was such that the person who committed the offence of abandoning the baby almost certainly had to be one of them, then examining them to determine which it was seems reasonable to me.
Or they could just ask "did you just give birth to a child in the toilets". I imagine that is something virtually impossible to hide in an interview.

The fact they did not even tell the women why they were being examined says it all. I guess they considered the 'balance...(of) the rights of the women in question" and decided they had none so it wasn't a consideration.

to diagnose recent childbirth, a visual examination of the external genitalia by a physician should almost certainly be sufficient.
Is that your professional opinion?

Last edited by Chronic Snoozer; 27th Oct 2020 at 01:45.
Chronic Snoozer is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 01:32
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,285
Received 203 Likes on 89 Posts
I am genuinely shocked at the amount of people who seem to think that being bundled into a locked ambulance and digitally raped is trivial. One woman it happened to said they had their cervixes examined. A pap smear is a painful enough procedure even when you have given your doctor consent, so they would very likely have been restrained with some force..

Personally I never flew Emirates again after my metal implant beeped going into Dubai (having gone through a body scanner prior to the flight I'd just disembarked) and I was taken into a room and strip searched by someone silent covered from head to toe in black while a man with a gun looked on. All they needed to do was a wand and a pat down but they chose to frighten and humiliate me instead.

Presumably due to the current travel restrictions, all the women on the flight would have been Australian?

Last edited by Clare Prop; 27th Oct 2020 at 01:44.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 01:40
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Coal Face
Posts: 1,286
Received 316 Likes on 121 Posts
Originally Posted by kghjfg
No, the word I was using was accept.
And I said no, you don't have to accept it. Just don't travel there or with their airline. That was what I was alluding to.
Chronic Snoozer is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 02:06
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,285
Received 203 Likes on 89 Posts
If you've been waiting months to get back to Australia and finally get on a flight, how much choice do you really have?
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 02:09
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,285
Received 203 Likes on 89 Posts
Oh if course, silly me, by getting on that flight they were obviously asking for it, it’s their fault.

It's their fault for going on a jolly jaunt around the middle east during a pandemic.

Anything else the victims should be blamed for?



Last edited by Clare Prop; 27th Oct 2020 at 04:19.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 02:58
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Sector 7G
Posts: 9
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Last time I booked a flight overseas, I never planned to get digitally raped in a locked ambulance on a stopover in a middle eastern country, I planned an few boring hours in an airport terminal, then to board a flight without having my lady bits messed with.

May I ask, how many of you have daughters and wives? Would you be happy for this treatment to them if they had no other choice to get home in the middle of a pandemic?

How dare you victim blame when these women were quite simply trying to get home. You should be ashamed!

Last edited by CharlotteAnderson; 27th Oct 2020 at 04:43.
CharlotteAnderson is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 04:12
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CharlotteAnderson
Last time I booked a flight overseas, I never planned to get digitally raped in a locked ambulance on a stopover in a middle eastern country, I planned an few boring hours in an airport terminal, then to board a flight without having my lady bits messed with.

May I ask, how many of you have daughters and wives? Would you be happy for this treatment to them if they made they had no other choice to get home in the middle of a pandemic?

How dare you victim blame when these women were quite simply trying to get home. You should be ashamed!
well said...
fly1981 is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 04:21
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,285
Received 203 Likes on 89 Posts
Yes indeed, well said.

How many of you guys would happliy bend over to be digitally raped with no explanation because of the actions of some complete stranger in an airport toilet?
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 04:34
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Sector 7G
Posts: 9
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Clare Prop
How many of you guys would happliy bend over to be digitally raped with no explanation because of the actions of some complete stranger in an airport toilet?
But you forgot, they decided to fly through there so they were completely asking for it!
CharlotteAnderson is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 04:37
  #75 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,872
Received 147 Likes on 46 Posts
Originally Posted by CharlotteAnderson
Last time I booked a flight overseas, I never planned to get digitally raped in a locked ambulance on a stopover in a middle eastern country, I planned an few boring hours in an airport terminal, then to board a flight without having my lady bits messed with.

May I ask, how many of you have daughters and wives? Would you be happy for this treatment to them if they made they had no other choice to get home in the middle of a pandemic?

How dare you victim blame when these women were quite simply trying to get home. You should be ashamed!

Very well said.
SOPS is online now  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 05:31
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,285
Received 203 Likes on 89 Posts
Also, if these women are passing through a hub and not entering the country, are they still subject to whatever stone age local law says that it is OK to sexually assault women?
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 05:36
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz
It would NOT involve doing an intrusive exam of EVERY WOMAN. Western justice has the notion of reasonable suspicion before detaining someone, let alone doing this- simply being female is not reasonable grounds.
Like doing similar searches on young girls at music festivals? No uproar there.
unobtanium is online now  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 05:52
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 200
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Well, on PPRuNe as in the world, it seems we have lost the ability to have reasoned debate, and to disagree with others politely...
KeyPilot is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 06:11
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,285
Received 203 Likes on 89 Posts
A debate about whether or not it is OK to sexually assault women is pretty unlikely to be polite.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 06:29
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 200
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
This is comment is plainly factually incorrect. A sexual assault is a crime, an intimate examination carried out (presumably) lawfully for law enforcement reasons, is not.

Sadly, your comment rather proves mine!
KeyPilot is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.