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Old 18th Oct 2020, 18:03
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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re above posts.

Valid points all round. Probably my last experience of what it was like in the Golden Age of flying was having the chance to fly on a BA Corcorde from LHR-NYC. All First Class of course and the cabin crew worked hard delivering several courses all by hand - no carts. Was even invited to the flight deck and the FEO was working hard to transfer fuel to maintain optimum CofG.. The Captain and F/O were very informative. Mach 2 at 60,000ft with only 40 pax onboard. Was certainly strange seeing the sky dark blue during the day, curvature of the earth and Venus below the horizon. Arrived in NYC just on dusk in time for dinner after only 3hrs and 15 mins. Pitty they are not still operating and BA were actually making a profit after they raised the fares.
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Old 18th Oct 2020, 18:56
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I was lucky enough at Ansett to take annual leave in October 1977(?) to Hayman Island with my wife. Our tickets were stamped “annual leave” we were upgraded and had a simply magical time there. I vaguely remember beachcombers and a big radial sitting in the shrubbery. Of course Abeles put a stop to that and rebuilt Hayman, taking it way out of reach of the average Australian.
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Old 18th Oct 2020, 22:16
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
I was lucky enough at Ansett to take annual leave in October 1977(?) to Hayman Island with my wife. Our tickets were stamped ďannual leaveĒ we were upgraded and had a simply magical time there. I vaguely remember beachcombers and a big radial sitting in the shrubbery. Of course Abeles put a stop to that and rebuilt Hayman, taking it way out of reach of the average Australian.
A yes, staff travel in those days was fantastic. Not to wander too far from the thread here but I remember how airline employees went to great lengths to help each other in the days you mentioned. Had many experiences of amazing generosity and extra effort to which I always did my best to reciprocate when the opportunity came up. Another thing lost to history.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 00:06
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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The series seems to be more about feminism than aviation.

Pretty funny watching the presenter freak when they are flying in small aircraft.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 03:39
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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I used to freak when I was flying in a big aircraft...and I was the Captain!!
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 05:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Am I the only one who thinks the mythology of flying in the ďgood old daysĒ 20ís, 50ís, 70ís whenever has been over glamourised? We tend to romanticise the past.

Far higher crash rate, longer trip times, almost unaffordable ticket prices, less frequency, lower cruise altitudes in the middle of weather, cabins filled with smoke, higher noise levels, no IFE, more lost luggage. Air travel only used frequently by a small group of people.
Absolutely. Everyone always craps on about how much more luxurious flying was 'back in the day'.

Bollocks. Compare the cost of a seat in each, adjust for average income and see just how luxurious it really was. The true adjusted cost of an economy seat 30 or 40 years ago was more than a business class seat today. And business class today is more like 1st class 30 years ago. Most Those promotional photos from back then? They weren't taken in a plane, they were a photo studio. Half of them don't even have overhead bins or seat tracks.

What has changed is that low cost flying simply didn't exist back then. So people wonder why their economy flight to Bali than cost the equivalent of 3 days average pay isn't as nice as an economy flight from the 70's that cost 3 months wage.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 10:34
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by globex6000 View Post
Absolutely. Everyone always craps on about how much more luxurious flying was 'back in the day'.

Bollocks. Compare the cost of a seat in each, adjust for average income and see just how luxurious it really was. The true adjusted cost of an economy seat 30 or 40 years ago was more than a business class seat today. And business class today is more like 1st class 30 years ago. Most Those promotional photos from back then? They weren't taken in a plane, they were a photo studio. Half of them don't even have overhead bins or seat tracks.

What has changed is that low cost flying simply didn't exist back then. So people wonder why their economy flight to Bali than cost the equivalent of 3 days average pay isn't as nice as an economy flight from the 70's that cost 3 months wage.
..and why Bali has turned into a sh1thole compared to when it actually was considered special and a privilege to be able to visit such a place in the early 70s.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 11:46
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by globex6000 View Post
Absolutely. Everyone always craps on about how much more luxurious flying was 'back in the day'.

Bollocks. Compare the cost of a seat in each, adjust for average income and see just how luxurious it really was. The true adjusted cost of an economy seat 30 or 40 years ago was more than a business class seat today. And business class today is more like 1st class 30 years ago. Most Those promotional photos from back then? They weren't taken in a plane, they were a photo studio. Half of them don't even have overhead bins or seat tracks.

What has changed is that low cost flying simply didn't exist back then. So people wonder why their economy flight to Bali than cost the equivalent of 3 days average pay isn't as nice as an economy flight from the 70's that cost 3 months wage.
What has the cost of a seat got to do with the level of luxury that was the norm "back in the day" 30 years ago was not back in the day, the rot had already set in by then.No it was in my case more like 50 plus years ago. It was an experience, to be looked forward to and enjoyed every second every time. Thats the point here.

There is no question its cheaper now than it was then based on lots of variables. However as a single guy in 1964/65 and earning about 18 pounds per week, frequently I would bowl out to Essendon and take a late Friday 727 flight to Brisbane or Sydney or Adelaide and return on Sunday night. I could afford it, there was no business class then so can't compare. Mind you I didn't have a $1000 mobile phone and a $200/month plan and Foxtel or health insurance or Stan and a cup of coffee/tea was sixpence and a sandwich 9 pence.

But seriously if I was offered a free domestic flight to anywhere in OZ today, I would avoid it like the plague.


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Old 19th Oct 2020, 22:26
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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To a point there is a tendency to romanticise the past, but in my opinion for very good reasons. Domestic flying today is just a series of nightmares and it is a horrible experience;

1. The curb side drop off or parking experience. Absolute chaos, expensive, push and shove with the obligatory high vis vest goon advising you to 'keep moving'.
2. Check-in and security. Humiliating, chaotic with security shouting out at nobody in particular. Beware of toothpaste and yogurt, lethal apparently.
3. Humiliating boarding process where one is socially divided according to the price of the ticket. "all the remaining passengers may now board". (Sneak past, doing my best leper impersonation.)
4. The seat pitch nightmare, overcrowded lockers as old mate brings half the garden shed with him.
5. Shrieking PA's that never shut up. "Hello Everybody" (very few Ladies and Gentlemen left, I guess.)
6. Having to listen to teenage girls covered in tattoo's with rings in their noses incapable of speaking more than two words without using 'Like'.
7. lunch being a biscuit or a muesli bar. (two minute noodles in Virgin Business class....sheeeeer luxury)
8. ATC delays
9. Agonising deplaning as previous old mate blocks the isle while searching through the overhead for his car keys.
10. The new 'Covid experience', being interviewed by the police on arrival.
11. The baggage carousel nightmare.
12 Finally, trying to get out the bloody door and being confronted by a taxi tout. Best Peter Sellers impersonation, "Taxi Sir, Taxi?" (bugger off)

No, I'm sorry the good old days were wonderful. My Mum dressed to the nines, complete with beauty case, white gloves and hat. My dad in a suit and tie and myself and my four brothers all dressed identically. Table clothes, stainless steel cutlery and plenty of space.
I would rather stick a needle in my eye than fly domestically as a passenger. I only do it because somebody is paying me.
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 04:18
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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The Bali example is a good one. QF commenced DPS services in the mid 70s taking over from Pan Am after their disastrous 1st into the Pacific add campaign.

There were 2x B707 services per week. Each B707 was configured at 20/120. Garuda ran DC8 50s at roughly the same configuration. So about 600 pax either way/week.
Looking at the flights by say Dec 2019 its easy to see why Bali went the way it did.

The crew got 3 or 4 day slips at the Hotel Bali Beach. That was pretty cruisy as well.

Wunwing.
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 05:08
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wunwing View Post
The Bali example is a good one. QF commenced DPS services in the mid 70s taking over from Pan Am after their disastrous 1st into the Pacific add campaign.

There were 2x B707 services per week. Each B707 was configured at 20/120. Garuda ran DC8 50s at roughly the same configuration. So about 600 pax either way/week.
Looking at the flights by say Dec 2019 its easy to see why Bali went the way it did.

The crew got 3 or 4 day slips at the Hotel Bali Beach. That was pretty cruisy as well.

Wunwing.
My visit was less salubrious in the early 70s; flying on a Merpati Nusantara HS748 from Darwin via Kupang and staying in some thatched cottages on the edge of a then pristine Kuta Beach.

To my recollection, the Bali Beach Hotel was the only real International hotel at the time.

I returned 45 years later for an ICAO conference and was absolutely saddened and disgusted to see the desecration of the place and the behaviour of my fellow countrymen who treated the place no better than a public beer trough and place to vomit.

If thatís what you call the Ďadvantagesí of low airfares , then you can keep them.
Iím sure someone will come on here and argue about the incredible tourist Dollars brought to the locals there.
Iím sure the original peaceful and pacifist mainly Hindu community then would roll back the clock if they could.
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 07:42
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I like SBS (SBS = Sex and Bloody Soccer ) as a network and watch their news every night as the only channel that has decent international coverage. That said, I know they are a bunch of lefties and I have to self correct for their news biases and minor editorialising of the news..

Onto "Australia come fly with me" episode one. Somehow the stolen generation was brought into it and while female aviators and systemic sexism were under reported in the past this show over corrects in typical SBS fashion.

Another gripe: So far Ansett has not been mentioned once and whilst they showed and flew around in DC-3 VH-AES, TAA's first plane (now at HARS) no mention was made of the airline (TAA) that represented nearly half of domestic avaition for nearly 50 years, nor was their any look as to why the government formed it, the two airline policy etc etc. Many be this is coming up in episode two but I suspect much of it will be worthy coverage of how flight attendants lead the way on LGBT rights etc. Not that I have objections to that as part of the story per se, it just seems all a bit light weight as a look at 100 years of civil aviation.
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Old 21st Oct 2020, 11:59
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Just saw the second episode of this series. Pretty much about sexism and equal rights. Although relevent, there is still very little or no mention of Domestic operations especially Ansett and TAA, the introduction of gas turbine aircraft/ jet operations to domestic operations and the learning curve involved in the transition from piston powered aircraft to the new types that faced aircrew converting to those aircraft. Hopefully there will be some interviews with domestic Pilots were part of that era. Also the accidents that occured during the 1950's and 1960's.ie the F27 at MKY in 1960 and the Viscounts and subsequent enquiries that let to Australia introducing the CVR/FDR's to improve accident investigation and safer skies.
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Old 21st Oct 2020, 13:40
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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It's from inside the bubble.
Wildbear Entertainment in conjunction with Screen Australia.
Wouldn't have legs if no Aboriginal or female content.
Sigh...
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 07:57
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by By George View Post
To a point there is a tendency to romanticise the past, but in my opinion for very good reasons. Domestic flying today is just a series of nightmares and it is a horrible experience;

Agonising, chaos, humiliating, nightmare....
Címon youíre not being asked to trek through impenetrable jungle with minimal supplies.

Youll be able to rock up to an airport, having checked in on your phone, drop off baggage thatíll have a higher probability of arriving at its destination than at any point of history, pass through what is an unobtrusive security check (look at the US TSA for comparison) have a wide choice of flights at many times of day, get to your destination in near perfect safety, be able to access Wifi and IFE, be able to connect with more options and more choice at any point in history and for a price that was a fraction that it was 50 years ago. If youíre willing to pay the ticket price they were paying years ago you get put at the front of the plane and get lie flat beds, exclusive lounge access and 3 course meals with shiny cutlery.

Check-in and security. Humiliating, chaotic with security shouting out at nobody in particular. Beware of toothpaste and yogurt, lethal apparently.
Are you even from Australia? Bans on liquids like toothpaste and yoghurt have never been a part of Australian domestic travel.
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Old 22nd Oct 2020, 23:44
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Címon youíre not being asked to trek through impenetrable jungle with minimal supplies.

Youll be able to rock up to an airport, having checked in on your phone, drop off baggage thatíll have a higher probability of arriving at its destination than at any point of history, pass through what is an unobtrusive security check (look at the US TSA for comparison) have a wide choice of flights at many times of day, get to your destination in near perfect safety, be able to access Wifi and IFE, be able to connect with more options and more choice at any point in history and for a price that was a fraction that it was 50 years ago. If youíre willing to pay the ticket price they were paying years ago you get put at the front of the plane and get lie flat beds, exclusive lounge access and 3 course meals with shiny cutlery.



Are you even from Australia? Bans on liquids like toothpaste and yoghurt have never been a part of Australian domestic travel.
What he said
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 04:08
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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I'm thinking some of the posters here must carry their own thumb tack to sit upon so as to have some thing to complain about. My only gripe about air travel is the marathon, albeit at waking pace, you have to undergo to get from kerb side to the gate at some of the airports these days, even though they might have the moving walkways. As to price, I did see a comment many years ago that the fare Oz - UK hasn't changed since the 30's, £800, inflation has taken care of the value. We should thank the lower echelons of society as well, for without them there would be many occupiers of row 0 without a job, or a job to aspire to.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 08:36
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by boaccomet4 View Post
Just saw the second episode of this series. Pretty much about sexism and equal rights. Although relevent, there is still very little or no mention of Domestic operations especially Ansett and TAA, the introduction of gas turbine aircraft/ jet operations to domestic operations and the learning curve involved in the transition from piston powered aircraft to the new types that faced aircrew converting to those aircraft. Hopefully there will be some interviews with domestic Pilots were part of that era. Also the accidents that occured during the 1950's and 1960's.ie the F27 at MKY in 1960 and the Viscounts and subsequent enquiries that let to Australia introducing the CVR/FDR's to improve accident investigation and safer skies.
Saw the second episode, maybe they might actually show a bit about aviation in the final episode, but I doubt it. So far, just a huge moan. Not a mention about the huge contribution of GA, the military, helicopter operations or so many other areas that make up the 100 years of Aviation history in Australia.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 09:24
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by boaccomet4 View Post
Just saw the second episode of this series. Pretty much about sexism and equal rights.
Originally Posted by Whispering T-Jet View Post
Many be this is coming up in episode two but I suspect much of it will be worthy coverage of how flight attendants lead the way on LGBT rights etc. Not that I have objections to that as part of the story per se, it just seems all a bit light weight as a look at 100 years of civil aviation.
Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
On the topic of SBS having to weave in a "land rights" moan into a story about aviation, thats the norm for our anti OZ broadcaster, expect more in the next 2 episodes.l
Have any of these commenters read the context of the series and the stories itís telling? As they state in the program brief this was never going to be about the telling of the total history about piloting, military or rotary wing aviation, it wasnít going to be a series summarising the last 100 years of Australian Aviation, it was never intended to be from the outset. The program synopsis below:

The history of flight is filled with danger and glamour, social injustice and opportunity. Just as it brought people together, air travel also revealed the disparities in our society.Over three weeks, Australia Come Fly With Me will celebrate the turbulent history of Australians in the air. 2020 marks 100 years of civil aviation in this country at a time when the industry is facing its biggest challenge.

Hosted by much-loved actor Justine Clarke, the three-part series is a collision of pop culture, the history of flight and the great shifts in Australian life that flying enabled. The opportunities and tensions created by air travel form the context for struggles between sexes, sexualities and cultures that reflect and foreshadow changes that would follow on the ground.
It was always going to be more about social issues within aviation and how they changed with changing Australian society than about pure aviation itself. If thatís not to your liking then donít watch it. Plenty of other media out there about pure aviation related content you can view to your hearts content.
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Old 23rd Oct 2020, 09:46
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Have any of these commenters read the context of the series and the stories itís telling? As they state in the program brief this was never going to be about the telling of the total history about piloting, military or rotary wing aviation, it wasnít going to be a series summarising the last 100 years of Australian Aviation, it was never intended to be from the outset. The program synopsis below:



It was always going to be more about social issues within aviation and how they changed with changing Australian society than about pure aviation itself. If thatís not to your liking then donít watch it. Plenty of other media out there about pure aviation related content you can view to your hearts content.
Like I said, a long drawn out moan. Maybe it should have been titled "A history of irrelevant malcontents on the fringe of the Aviation industry"
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