Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

The next CASA CEO/DAS

Old 23rd May 2021, 19:53
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
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Flaming Galah, do your own research. Personally, I find it extremely heartening that a 30 year old would be so attracted to a 60 year old. It’s also great to see Thirty somethings being judged by their boyfriends to be a perfect fit for a couple of Board positions. Now that’s real “affirmative action” in action! Let’s break more glass ceilings!
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Old 23rd May 2021, 19:55
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
The only thing that isn't surprising about the appointments is the continuation of this government's ideological fetish for appointing ex military people to every damn civil role they can think of - the GG qualifications nowadays may as well say "Must have served in the ADF" - sure, I guess like any organisation, occasionally a good leader may emerge but these people treat this as it's almost the ONLY qualification - let's face it, a lot of the military have made their career by following orders, how the hell does that qualify someone for this type of position????

Could someone remind the government that at least some of the ADF leadership were in the job when the alleged crimes occurred in Afghanistan....... not implying anyone appointed is responsible but would it not make sense to re-think this fetish for appointing ex military people to manage things.... when clearly at least some of the MOST important aspects of military activity have seemingly not been managed at all???

The usual quote is: “A safe pair of hands.”, meaning they are the antithesis of Sir John Kerr.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 21:31
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Just show some respect - for those getting a little cranky. Getting hot headed behind a keyboard on an anonymous forum isn’t good for anyone.

I would be embarrassed to have my children read this thread and ask questions about some of the content. PPRuNe isn’t a restricted site to my knowledge. If some of the comments here were made on talkback radio, the caller would be chopped quickly.

Have a good week and all the best!


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Old 23rd May 2021, 21:59
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
The only thing that isn't surprising about the appointments is the continuation of this government's ideological fetish for appointing ex military people to every damn civil role they can think of - the GG qualifications nowadays may as well say "Must have served in the ADF" - sure, I guess like any organisation, occasionally a good leader may emerge but these people treat this as it's almost the ONLY qualification - let's face it, a lot of the military have made their career by following orders, how the hell does that qualify someone for this type of position????

Could someone remind the government that at least some of the ADF leadership were in the job when the alleged crimes occurred in Afghanistan....... not implying anyone appointed is responsible but would it not make sense to re-think this fetish for appointing ex military people to manage things.... when clearly at least some of the MOST important aspects of military activity have seemingly not been managed at all???
Totally agree, excellent comment. Our Govmint and previous ones are totally out of touch. Their ‘ideologies are flawed and to be honest, a lazy and outdated approach. The current mantra within Govmint is this ridiculous time and resource wasting ‘diversity’ push which has morphed into another bureaucratic Frankenstein. Basically males have suddenly become the casualty in this foolish war and when the dust clears there will be some severely dysfunctional organisations as a result of hiring a person based upon ‘diversity’ rather than actual skills and experience.

The reason they hire ex-ADF hierarchy to head up agencies is because those people have been indoctrinated into following orders and suffer from Stockholm syndrome and will obediently obey their Master’s wishes to the enth degree. This is an ideology and one that has failed over and over. The same as with the ‘ideology’ that the federal government APS cap should be 167,596, a number they have rigidly stuck with for many years. Seriously, whether you like the APS or loathe them, what idiot decided on that number and mandated that the number (or cap) cannot be exceed? Stupid, idiotic bubble mentality that only a lazy and inept Govmint could propagate over and over.

One thing is certain, all of us pay the price in the long run for these absurd and idiotic ideologies that are pushed by a bunch of idiots sitting in the Canberra cocoon.


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Old 23rd May 2021, 22:31
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
The only thing that isn't surprising about the appointments is the continuation of this government's ideological fetish for appointing ex military people to every damn civil role they can think of - the GG qualifications nowadays may as well say "Must have served in the ADF" - sure, I guess like any organisation, occasionally a good leader may emerge but these people treat this as it's almost the ONLY qualification - let's face it, a lot of the military have made their career by following orders, how the hell does that qualify someone for this type of position????

Could someone remind the government that at least some of the ADF leadership were in the job when the alleged crimes occurred in Afghanistan....... not implying anyone appointed is responsible but would it not make sense to re-think this fetish for appointing ex military people to manage things.... when clearly at least some of the MOST important aspects of military activity have seemingly not been managed at all???
What a truthful but laughable post. Having made a career out of following orders. Find me someone anyone in Government that has not had a career out of following orders, see "toe the party line". God forbid that you actually want people appointed to a portfolio with experience in that area. Imagine a Doctor as the minister of the Health Portfolio or a Teacher as the minister of the Education Portfolio or a Farmer, well you get the gist. But we cannot have that because unless you have spent your career following orders, sorry following the party line you will not be a politician in a position to be “portfolioed”. At least in general these people, not saying they have enough sense but have that survival instinct in trying not to make to bigger of a fool of themselves, have these experienced people on staff to advice.
“sense to re-think this fetish for appointing ex military people to manage things” Really ? So you have a person who has worked their way into a senior position by learning, having experience , in "managing" not only large groups of people but if not actually doing so being trained to handle significant situations but you would rather what? Have Betty the scone maker appointed as GG. Most civilian high achievers would not even consider this as it would be a step down, in their eyes, from their already gained financially high secure position. I guess you must be suggesting that a “Govemnit” person be appointed GG.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 23:41
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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A minor correction: a military person of high rank is GIVING orders, not just obeying them.
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Old 24th May 2021, 02:07
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by finestkind View Post
What a truthful but laughable post. Having made a career out of following orders. Find me someone anyone in Government that has not had a career out of following orders, see "toe the party line". God forbid that you actually want people appointed to a portfolio with experience in that area. Imagine a Doctor as the minister of the Health Portfolio or a Teacher as the minister of the Education Portfolio or a Farmer, well you get the gist. But we cannot have that because unless you have spent your career following orders, sorry following the party line you will not be a politician in a position to be “portfolioed”. At least in general these people, not saying they have enough sense but have that survival instinct in trying not to make to bigger of a fool of themselves, have these experienced people on staff to advice.
“sense to re-think this fetish for appointing ex military people to manage things” Really ? So you have a person who has worked their way into a senior position by learning, having experience , in "managing" not only large groups of people but if not actually doing so being trained to handle significant situations but you would rather what? Have Betty the scone maker appointed as GG. Most civilian high achievers would not even consider this as it would be a step down, in their eyes, from their already gained financially high secure position. I guess you must be suggesting that a “Govemnit” person be appointed GG.
Betty the scone lady, Percy the train driver or Hector the cat could all do a better job if the regulator was to be managed more like the NZ CAA,dare I say it. Not perfect by any means, but an improvement on the current joke called CASA.

CASA has had a variety of CEO/DAS folk in recent years with nobody achieving real outcome;
Bruce Byron - Pilot. Failed
Screaming Skull - Pilot. Failed.
Air Marshall Skidmark - Defence. Failed
Shane Comedy - Career bureaucrat - Failed
Pip Spence - Career bureaucrat - Time will tell.
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Old 24th May 2021, 08:58
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Oi. Don’t bring me into this one my dear friend.
A bit cheeky I know but the first one got deleted. Glad that we are now BFF.

Bruce Byron - Pilot. Failed
Screaming Skull - Pilot. Failed.
Not only failed but also from Cathay. What is it with the Government love affair with Cathay management pilots?
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Old 24th May 2021, 09:22
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Bruce was an ex Caribou pilot (and a Vietnam Veteran) and later Kendal/Ansett Safety Manager. Immediately prior to CAsA he was at Virgin Blue.
The Screaming Skull was a RAAF ex fast jet knuck and a major part of the infamous 'Star Chamber" at CX that 'selected' 49 of his pilot colleagues for 'termination'.

Bruce was a competent Safety Manager beaten by the Iron Triangle and the public service clique.
The Screaming Skull was just that.

Para, you missed Mick Toller off your list, he was ex CX,

CC
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Old 24th May 2021, 12:37
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Checklist Charlie View Post
Bruce was an ex Caribou pilot (and a Vietnam Veteran) and later Kendal/Ansett Safety Manager. Immediately prior to CAsA he was at Virgin Blue.
The Screaming Skull was a RAAF ex fast jet knuck and a major part of the infamous 'Star Chamber" at CX that 'selected' 49 of his pilot colleagues for 'termination'.

Bruce was a competent Safety Manager beaten by the Iron Triangle and the public service clique.
The Screaming Skull was just that.

Para, you missed Mick Toller off your list, he was ex CX,

CC
Thanks CC. You are correct, Toller did some time as numero uno at CASA and so did Dick Smith. I got lazy and couldn’t be bothered blowing too much dust off the CASA history books. It’s an awful series and there is never a happy ending to the stories.

As for the Skull, indeed he was a member of the infamous CX Star Chamber. He was very happy within his own skin to sacrifice fellow comrades in such a barbaric way. It takes a special skill to do such a thing, a skill that sociopaths and psychopaths display ever so eloquently.

Last edited by Paragraph377; 24th May 2021 at 12:48.
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Old 24th May 2021, 12:47
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
A bit cheeky I know but the first one got deleted. Glad that we are now BFF.

Not only failed but also from Cathay. What is it with the Government love affair with Cathay management pilots?
Before you know it we will be celebrating Xmas together!

The CX connection thing is and has always been a little bit weird. Probably some nepotism and maybe reptilian bloodline type of thing happening, who knows. The Screaming Skull also brought in one of his conceited mates, Keith ‘melon head’ Thompson. Another CX pilot who walked into the Brisbane office on $200k per year then sooked when he missed out on some additional promotions in the first 12 months. At the pub he used to cry on everyone’s shoulders about the injustice of it all and how he was better than anything mankind has ever produced. His face would turn a brighter shade of red than his hair!

Jeez, us pilots really are a fickle bunch aren’t we!

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Old 24th May 2021, 20:26
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Thomson was ex EK and NJS, not sure he spent any time in Cathay
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Old 25th May 2021, 01:09
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Jeez, us pilots really are a fickle bunch aren’t we!
There is a particular pilot character that I have always disliked and that is the person who will go through all the hoops to become an airline pilot but really really wants to be management and finds flying itself to be distasteful. You can spot them quite early in their career and even though they will join in discussion about the poor quality of management when they are line pilots will very quickly change when they become management. They usually take on management roles within weeks of being CTL in the LHS. Those who for whatever reason don't crack it in an airline or worse still, get pushed out of the airline nest (the initials TJ come to mind) will then look to CASA as a vehicle for their non-flying career ambitions. They still get off on being called "Captain" but probably have no more than 1000 hours PIC in their log book.
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Old 25th May 2021, 02:42
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
There is a particular pilot character that I have always disliked and that is the person who will go through all the hoops to become an airline pilot but really really wants to be management and finds flying itself to be distasteful. You can spot them quite early in their career and even though they will join in discussion about the poor quality of management when they are line pilots will very quickly change when they become management. They usually take on management roles within weeks of being CTL in the LHS. Those who for whatever reason don't crack it in an airline or worse still, get pushed out of the airline nest (the initials TJ come to mind) will then look to CASA as a vehicle for their non-flying career ambitions. They still get off on being called "Captain" but probably have no more than 1000 hours PIC in their log book.
TJ the angry man, in his various roles, and the Screaming Skull were also incredibly angry humans. I’ve seen both in action and it’s not pretty. When AJ booted TJ from JQ, the showdown was impressive. The 5 foot Irishman sure did give the big angry man a run for his money. A pissed off Irishman can be quite a sight, but when TJ explodes that too is a quite a sight! The Screaming Skull would allow his temper tantrums to spill over into the live flight deck. It happened more than once and then he transferred into the Star Chamber where his skills could be well honed towards the pilot body. At least he was no longer at 38,000 feet with a few hundred lives sitting behind him.

I believe there has been more failures than successes when it comes to pilots shifting from the tin to an office on the ground.
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Old 25th May 2021, 08:23
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by finestkind View Post
What a truthful but laughable post. Having made a career out of following orders. Find me someone anyone in Government that has not had a career out of following orders, see "toe the party line". God forbid that you actually want people appointed to a portfolio with experience in that area. Imagine a Doctor as the minister of the Health Portfolio or a Teacher as the minister of the Education Portfolio or a Farmer, well you get the gist. But we cannot have that because unless you have spent your career following orders, sorry following the party line you will not be a politician in a position to be “portfolioed”. At least in general these people, not saying they have enough sense but have that survival instinct in trying not to make to bigger of a fool of themselves, have these experienced people on staff to advice.
“sense to re-think this fetish for appointing ex military people to manage things” Really ? So you have a person who has worked their way into a senior position by learning, having experience , in "managing" not only large groups of people but if not actually doing so being trained to handle significant situations but you would rather what? Have Betty the scone maker appointed as GG. Most civilian high achievers would not even consider this as it would be a step down, in their eyes, from their already gained financially high secure position. I guess you must be suggesting that a “Govemnit” person be appointed GG.
Not at any point did I indicate a 'government' person be appointed GG - how about a bloody constitutional scholar or someone with experience in the law since the principal reason for the position is signing Acts of Parliament into law - goodness forbid we actually have someone who can sit on the Federal Executive Council and provide advice to Ministers and the PM on the constitutionality of the laws they are passing - maybe so many of them wouldn't end up being struck down as un-constitutional.

I DO NOT have an objection to 'a' ex military person being appointed to the GG position, just that this government everytime it has a vacancy for just about anything it appoints someone ex military - GG, commissions, special project groups, etc. They can NOT look beyond the military. We've had some excellent GGs in the past and not many of them were ex military, that alone suggests the ADF shouldn't be the only source for these vacancies.

As for the appointment of ministers, I don't disagree - the Westminster system (although ours is a 'Washminster' system) has as one of its features almost a guarantee of incompetent government because the people appointed to portfolios are the most 'loyal' members of the party, NOT the most capable (incidentally, I think you meant 'tow' the line, unless you were making some oblique reference to toe-cutters - or 'tow' cutters). The current Defence Minister is a good example. Just weeks before he was appointed to that ridiculous 'Home Affairs' portfolio, his previous department was found by an inquiry to be the most mismanaged of all the Federal departments and he's gone on to bigger and more consequential jobs yet appears to have proven himself incapable of managing a tart shop.

While I wouldn't want the US system in total, their cabinet being outside the legislature and responsible to the President at least provides for the appointment of a Doctor as Surgeon-General, an experienced lawyer or prosecutor to Attorney-General or an expert in their field appointed as Cabinet Secretary of whatever department handles what they are expert in.

I also never at any point suggested the 'scone maker' be appointed to a position, that's ridiculous. However, like I said, as in any organization, some people will (usually by accident) arise to the top and be worth something but it's more often than not certainly not the case - the military has a particular reputation in this area, in an organization where people are conditioned throughout their entire career to follow orders without question, those who never question their orders tend to make up a proportion of those who get to the 'top'.
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Old 25th May 2021, 08:30
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377 View Post
TJ the angry man, in his various roles, and the Screaming Skull were also incredibly angry humans. I’ve seen both in action and it’s not pretty. When AJ booted TJ from JQ, the showdown was impressive. The 5 foot Irishman sure did give the big angry man a run for his money. A pissed off Irishman can be quite a sight, but when TJ explodes that too is a quite a sight! The Screaming Skull would allow his temper tantrums to spill over into the live flight deck. It happened more than once and then he transferred into the Star Chamber where his skills could be well honed towards the pilot body. At least he was no longer at 38,000 feet with a few hundred lives sitting behind him.

I believe there has been more failures than successes when it comes to pilots shifting from the tin to an office on the ground.
I told the person you're referring to (the tall one) when he was attempting to abuse me for something I was not responsible for one day to "Do your worst and I'll see you in court you arrogant b-----d". I then walked out. From my recollection he never did that to me again. A lot of these people if you challenge them and give them back what they dish out very quickly change their tune.
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Old 25th May 2021, 23:04
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=AerialPerspective;11050970]Not at any point did I indicate a 'government' person be appointed GG - how about a bloody constitutional scholar or someone with experience in the law since the principal reason for the position is signing Acts of Parliament into law - goodness forbid we actually have someone who can sit on the Federal Executive Council and provide advice to Ministers and the PM on the constitutionality of the laws they are passing - maybe so many of them wouldn't end up being struck down as un-constitutional.

The point being made was that any Government person or anyone in any industry would have had to follow orders in their career path.

"let's face it, a lot of the military have made their career by following orders, how the hell does that qualify someone for this type of position????

Well all, not a lot, have a career in the military by following, and giving orders. Which means having experience in o
rganizing and supervising large bodies of personal not only in every day events but significant events and thereby having that experience that Betty the scone maker does not. Is this experience available in the private sector, yes to a large extent it is but these people are in all likelihood not interested in a Government appointed position.

As indicated anyone that has achieved elsewhere, CEO’s, Barrister’s etc would find the role as GG as a stepdown financially as well as restrictive, hence who is available?


I DO NOT have an objection to 'a' ex military person being appointed to the GG position, just that this government everytime it has a vacancy for just about anything it appoints someone ex military - GG, commissions, special project groups, etc. They can NOT look beyond the military. We've had some excellent GGs in the past and not many of them were ex military, that alone suggests the ADF shouldn't be the only source for these vacancies.

This does sound like an objection to having military appointed to a vacancy. And see above about who else would be available that would take a step down to fill the position.

(incidentally, I think you meant 'tow' the line, unless you were making some oblique reference to toe-cutters - or 'tow' cutters).

No I did mean "toe the line" "Toe the line" is an idiomatic expression meaning either to conform to a rule or standard

While I wouldn't want the US system in total, their cabinet being outside the legislature and responsible to the President at least provides for the appointment of a Doctor as Surgeon-General, an experienced lawyer or prosecutor to Attorney-General or an expert in their field appointed as Cabinet Secretary of whatever department handles what they are expert in.

Totally agree.

I also never at any point suggested the 'scone maker' be appointed to a position, that's ridiculous.

No you did not. I was making the point of who else would fill the vacancy positions?

In respect to ex ADF personal being placed in positions by the "Govenmint". I in no way suggest that these are the best people for the job nor that they would be highly successful in the position they take on. But they have a better chance of being successful more than Betty the scone maker (who knows maybe she/he/it/ would be a better GG). Unfortunately the ADF is like the Government in that if you play the game you will advance but in playing the game you are learning skills. Not like the politicians whose skills set is staying in power and if this means not serving your constitutes so be it. Again I come back to the question who else is going to fill the position, and wants to do so, with a better chance of doing so successfully.

Last edited by finestkind; 25th May 2021 at 23:24.
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