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Virgin 3.0

Old 20th Sep 2020, 01:29
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Jungle
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Insiders claim a flight attendant’s base salary is being slashed from A$61,179 to A$49,929 with new starters at just A$45,526, while shifts are moving from 9.45 hrs to 12 hrs to allow for transcontinental returns eliminating high overnight accommodation costs.
This move was hardly surprising. This is the perfect opportunity for management to press the reset button. Supply and demand forces at play with huge over supply of crews at the moment.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 03:01
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Relatively speaking, cabin crew training isn’t that costly, especially when compared to flight crew. The training centre with the cabin mock ups and pool is there already or only needs to be hired for a couple of days. A lot of learning can be done online, same with the exams. There isn’t that much more expense in running a course every two months instead of every three months to cope with the turnover.

With the reduced size of the airline and laid off CC returning from the Middle East, it will be a while before recruitment of those without previous experience is needed. When it is, there will be no shortage of 20 somethings applying for their dream job. Whilst Virgin can’t use cheap Eastern European labour like Ryanair can, I doubt they will have trouble filling positions at reduced pay rates.
Im not sure where you work Kris, but it generally takes around 6 months before a FA is checked to line here- Resume, Interview, Training.. etc

If experienced VA FA's are leaving, I doubt that anyone from the ME will even want to be employed on those conditions mentioned and will like the others, find alternative employment.

I think you may have missed why Bain bought Virgin. Apparently it was cause of all of the great people!

Ryanair isn't doing great either. So we all know where this is going!

Last edited by Blackout; 20th Sep 2020 at 03:27. Reason: Elaborated On Hiring Process
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 03:22
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I think you may have missed why Bain bought Virgin. Apparently it was cause of all of the great people!
lol! Yep, that would be why
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 03:31
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Rainbows and Unicorns
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 03:49
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Oh yeah, thanks for voting up the DOCA for us so we all get our big paydays, thanks for all the 🥰💜❤️🧡💛💚 on WP too, yeah I know, I’m the best, you can all [email protected] off now.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 05:56
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
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Management simply look at training costs vs staff turnover and aim to be at the bottom of the drag curve. Increasing staff pay reduces turnover and training costs but increases the wage bill, reducing staff pay lowers the wage bill but increases turnover and training costs.

They aim to find the sweet spot between people never leaving but costing them a fortune and people who cost them very little but need replacements trained regularly and don’t care about the company.

Tiger actually cut 10% of pilot pay while the company was making money and ended up losing a greater percentage of Captains then Scoot recently retrenched.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 07:39
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
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but it generally takes around 6 months before a FA is checked to line here- Resume, Interview, Training.. etc
When the FA's are provided by a third party the first time the company sees them is for the 3 week training program and 4 days of line training. Don't assume that under the new management the old ways will return. Yes there will be plenty of takers and no they won't operate to the same standards as before.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 09:43
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Management simply look at training costs vs staff turnover and aim to be at the bottom of the drag curve. Increasing staff pay reduces turnover and training costs but increases the wage bill, reducing staff pay lowers the wage bill but increases turnover and training costs.

They aim to find the sweet spot between people never leaving but costing them a fortune and people who cost them very little but need replacements trained regularly and don’t care about the company.

Tiger actually cut 10% of pilot pay while the company was making money and ended up losing a greater percentage of Captains then Scoot recently retrenched.
Tiger lost Captains because they never wanted to fly the 737. It was one of those stupid moves by the company to put 320 crew on the 737.

Unfortunately, as you mentioned, it might look good on paper, but the operating costs of employing sub standard crew will cost the company more money in the long run.

VA staff are its greatest asset. Heard that quite a few times!

You just cant keep doing things on the cheap, this is one of the reasons why VA has never made any substantial profit!!!!
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 10:24
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
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I think krismiler was referring to 2010 Singapore Pilot shortage when 1 in 3 flights were cancelled daily after they all left for Qatar etc.

https://sbr.com.sg/aviation/news/tig...-guys-running-
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 11:42
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: The Covid state
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You just cant keep doing things on the cheap, this is one of the reasons why VA has never made any substantial profit!!!![/QUOTE]



I believe if VA was an all 737 fleet with it's 8 bis seats for the last 10 years it would of made profits. As it did the 73 ops kept the airline flying
till VA did go into VA. The only thing good JB did is do the business class. Though as we know he was trying to run a business not an airline.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 13:18
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
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VAA domestic made a profit every financial year. It was other parts of the VA group that dragged it down to a loss.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 20:10
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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If Bain follows the American tradition, the cabin crew will have to pay for their own training and do it in their own time. They then will get paid on a “piecework” basis - per sector. They would be employed by a third party on rolling ten month contracts. These contracts are renewed or not for no good reason. It keeps the crews young, pretty and subservient. Rosters organised so they never fly as a crew - that prevents organisation by unions. Levening of eastern europeans and the odd Asian and African to give a PC diverse appearance as well.

Do the same with pilots, counter staff and engineers - voila! No union interference and total management control.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 20:33
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: The Covid state
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You forgot one thing Sunfish any missed approach shall be paid by the flight crew. It will calculated from hitting TOGA to engine shutdown.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 20:41
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Mexico City
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
If Bain follows the American tradition, the cabin crew will have to pay for their own training and do it in their own time. They then will get paid on a “piecework” basis - per sector. They would be employed by a third party on rolling ten month contracts. These contracts are renewed or not for no good reason. It keeps the crews young, pretty and subservient. Rosters organised so they never fly as a crew - that prevents organisation by unions. Levening of eastern europeans and the odd Asian and African to give a PC diverse appearance as well.

Do the same with pilots, counter staff and engineers - voila! No union interference and total management control.
I don't know of any non union LCCs in the USA. All USA LCC cabin crew are union too. As far as I know they are all on permanent contracts. They are also paid and accommodated during training.

​​​​​​Don't make stuff up.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 20:50
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post
So how do these negotiations over new EA’s work when a business comes out of administration?

Given the business has been bought as a going concern do the current EA’s not remain in force?

Can the employees just vote No to any EA variation and stay on their current conditions?
Thats’s my understanding BB.

Although in extraordinary times management have been known to “appeal” to the IRC/FWC to adjudicate on a more business friendly proposal?

My opinion has always been, that despite the circumstances if a company says it needs to slash existing wages and conditions to be viable, then maybe their overall business plan isn’t that flash to start with.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 21:55
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NT
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Originally Posted by Climb150 View Post
I don't know of any non union LCCs in the USA. All USA LCC cabin crew are union too. As far as I know they are all on permanent contracts. They are also paid and accommodated during training.

​​​​​​Don't make stuff up.
Ha ha


Sunfish making stuff up??
no way not ever.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 22:15
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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My example comes from the cruise line industry. It's the Carnival lines business model. Don't think that Bain would do it if they could get away with it. There are plenty of other nasty work practices that companies try overseas that could get imported here:

- Like firing the bottom 10% of performers every year.

- Like measuring key strokes and call lengths in customer centres,

The unions have protected you from plenty.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 22:35
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 731
Just interested - the way I understood the VA EBA seniority took a back seat once people moved on to widebody and any redundancies would by based on type not DOJ.

Talking to someone they suggested wasn't as clear as that and DOJ viewed by some as at least a component.

Seniority issues are always an interesting point of contention when airlines combine, no reason why not as interesting when things go the other way.
Equally expect some management positions (airline not type) would be occupied by WB pilots, wonder what leverage (if any) management/training pilot/sim pilot/crm facilitator etc etc could have in considering how it's decided: who's offered to stay, who's required to leave.

Shitfight on the horizon maybe?

Best of luck.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 23:59
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: On the edge
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Not totally sure what you are asking. The wide body EBA is a separate agreement to the narrow body, with no provision to displace crew on a separate agreement. Therefore, wide body redundancies are based on seniority; however, only for those employed by the WB EBA.

In a nutshell, redundancies only affect those on that particular agreement.

Reemployment is solely by GDOJ.
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Old 21st Sep 2020, 02:50
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 140
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
If Bain follows the American tradition, the cabin crew will have to pay for their own training and do it in their own time. They then will get paid on a “piecework” basis - per sector. They would be employed by a third party on rolling ten month contracts. These contracts are renewed or not for no good reason. It keeps the crews young, pretty and subservient. Rosters organised so they never fly as a crew - that prevents organisation by unions. Levening of eastern europeans and the odd Asian and African to give a PC diverse appearance as well.

Do the same with pilots, counter staff and engineers - voila! No union interference and total management control.
Where are you getting you information from regarding US pay?

Do you enjoy talking out your a$$?
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