Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Virgin 3.0

Old 26th Sep 2020, 14:41
  #201 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 562
3. "vote no and their only option is to blow their money"?? Seriously??
Perhaps that tinge of sarcasm didn’t translate... 😉

The way some on here make it out, if we don’t vote yes, Bain will close the doors and scurry home with all those assets, bringing on the end of aviation in Australia. I just don’t see why we should quit the fight at the first sign of a threat. Fvck Bain and the Gordon Gekko horse they rode in on.
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 15:41
  #202 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 38
Sunfish cut the BS, what you are suggesting is illegal. Never mind the fact that borders are closed and will be for a considerable time as COVID wreaks havoc around the world. Bain have bought the company including its existing EAs. They have to negotiate in good faith. Arbitrary 40% cut, good luck with that. An ambit claim with no competitive data to back it up. Even Rex are targeting J* minus 10%. Stop the FUD!
The_Equaliser is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 21:01
  #203 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 90
[QUOTE=Even Rex are targeting J* minus 10%. Stop the FUD![/QUOTE]

Rex will be on more than JQ pilots. We will be paid less than the award as they will leave us stood down might get a roster every 3 months.
Ragnor is online now  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 22:25
  #204 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,490
Good luck to all of you. I am not BSing. You want a repeat of 1989?
Sunfish is online now  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 22:51
  #205 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Age: 50
Posts: 111
All I want is sunfish to endure the same fate as Paragraph377
bangbounceboeing is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 23:38
  #206 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Gafa
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Good luck to all of you. I am not BSing. You want a repeat of 1989?
You think the RAAF are gonna pick up VAs slack!?

Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
Fvck Bain and the Gordon Gekko horse they rode in on.
Agreed, Bain are going to strip every employee of every spare dollar that they legally can, but that doesn’t mean it should be taken lying down!!!
Maggie Island is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 00:19
  #207 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: at home
Posts: 159
How is $255/hr for a captain a 40% pay cut?
virginexcess is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 00:58
  #208 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 562
Originally Posted by virginexcess View Post
How is $255/hr for a captain a 40% pay cut?
Because you’ll be doing bugger all flying until the new EBA is voted up, which is dependent on some arbitrary fleet wide flying hours. $255/hr equates to very little actual income as you’ll be scrounging for flight hours.




gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 03:52
  #209 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,194
The lessons of history

Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
Perhaps that tinge of sarcasm didn’t translate... 😉

The way some on here make it out, if we don’t vote yes, Bain will close the doors and scurry home with all those assets, bringing on the end of aviation in Australia. I just don’t see why we should quit the fight at the first sign of a threat. Fvck Bain and the Gordon Gekko horse they rode in on.
Quite a few years ago now, a foreign backed entity rode in and offered to save two small airlines that were on their knees following a lengthy administration. One of the conditions imposed by the “White Knights” was the acceptance of an EBA that effectively swept away many of the hard one conditions of the previous 20 years. it was made clear in no uncertain terms that a “flexible” (love that spin) EBA was crucial to the success of the new operation.

One pilot group, ravaged by their own civil war, voted almost unanimously to accept the pineapple. The other pilot group saw the tactic for what it was and held firm. The “flexible” EBA was consigned to the dustbin, and the company went from strength to strength regardless.

The only thing that will be achieved by voting yes for any Agreement that is inferior to the status quo will be a lot of corporate backslapping and big bonuses for the smarmy pr!cks who devised it.
KRUSTY 34 is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 05:31
  #210 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 475
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
I say again, you were warned.
You might be a nice person off the computer Sunfish but this is a d1ckhead thing to say to people going through an exceptionally difficult time.

You know full well that the VA pilots could not stop Bain taking control of Virgin. The court cases had shown that the ballot was rigged from the start. Even if all the employees had voted NO, one way or another Bain was going to end up owning Virgin.

Secondly, don’t act like you were the lone voice of dissent as everyone else embraced Bain with open arms. The unions were crystal clear that they did not want Bain to buy the company but they couldn’t stop it either.

The employees are stuck with this shit sandwich through no fault of their own. Your comments suggest it is their own fault for ignoring your sage advice.

The truth is the only vote that employees get that can actually determine their future is the vote on this EA and your advice is to just roll over and cop it. So for all your tough talk, when the rubber meets the road, your only advice is “do whatever Bain says”.
Beer Baron is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 07:44
  #211 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 140
Beer Baron absolutely nailed it. Sunfish bangs on like the Oracle of doom. We get it, but mate, STFU
TimmyTee is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 10:41
  #212 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: BAO
Posts: 1
ex AAP- via 7 News: Qld govt to 'double down' on Virgin deal........

Article link: https://7news.com.au/business/qld-go...deal-c-1343477

An extract:

Qld govt to 'double down' on Virgin deal

Marty Silk
Published: 25/09/2020 Updated: 25 September 2020 2:30 pm
Virgin's future in Queensland is in doubt after the state opposition pledged to break off talks. Credit: AAP

Queensland Treasurer Cameron Dick will "double-down" on striking a $200 million investment deal with Virgin Australia after the LNP opposition promised to end the talks.

The state Labor government is in negotiations to invest $200 million in the carrier, which was acquired for $3.5 billion by American fund Bain Capital earlier this month.

The government and airline reportedly have an in-principle agreement, but a formal deal is yet to be signed.

Liberal National Party deputy leader Tim Mander says if a deal still hasn't been struck before the October 31 state election, his party will scrap the talks.

"If the deal hasn't already been done by Labor, it won't be done," he said in a statement on Friday.

Mr Mander promised to reveal the details of any deal and accused the government of "cowardly" hiding behind claims they were commercial in confidence.

"If it's a good deal, they should be up-front with Queenslanders," he said.

Mr Dick lashed out at the LNP for putting the deal in jeopardy, and promised to push it through before the government goes into caretaker mode on October 6.

"I'm going to have to double down on my efforts now because of the recklessness of the LNP," the treasurer said.

Mr Dick said the deal is centred on keeping Virgin's headquarters in Brisbane, maintaining air routes and protecting local jobs.

Mr Mander said the $200 million would be better off invested in a tourism and marketing fund, but the treasurer said there was no point in spruiking tourism without cost-effective travel.

Mr Dick said keeping Virgin in Queensland will maintain price competition and keep the cost of travel affordable.

"We need two airlines to keep airfares down," he said.

The treasurer also warned that Bain had been considering relocating Virgin, and claimed the NSW government had already spent $1 million on consultants to woo the airline to western Sydney.

"There's one person that's happy today and there's one person that's on the phone to Bain - and that's (NSW Premier) Gladys Berejiklian," he said.

Queenslanders go to the polls on October 31.
rgds/be well
S28- BE
Section28- BE is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 12:12
  #213 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,490
You don’t get it timmy. What I am trying to tell you is that there is NOTHING that Bain won’t do to make a quid. You are making the same mistake as 1989 if you think that precedent will save you. That is what I was trying to tell you from day one on the original thread. You can keep shooting the messenger if you like. ‘’

You will not understand till you are sitting across the “negotiating” table from someone who has a multi million dollar payday contingent on you doing what you are told.

Sorry if it hurts but you are better off knowing it and behaving accordingly rather than acting like you are talking to some passive investor.
Sunfish is online now  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 13:08
  #214 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 140
Fully understood. So now you can stop post-spamming the same thing over and over.
TimmyTee is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 13:15
  #215 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 511
I know I shouldn't feed the troll but sometimes sunfish says something that is beyond stupid and I just want to know where his idea of knowing everything and everyone comes from. What is the same mistake as 89 you keep banging on about? BTW I will put what TT is saying another way; if the messenger gets shot, it is usually at close range and fatal.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2020, 13:25
  #216 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NT
Posts: 153
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
I know I shouldn't feed the troll but sometimes sunfish says something that is beyond stupid and I just want to know where his idea of knowing everything and everyone comes from. What is the same mistake as 89 you keep banging on about? BTW I will put what TT is saying another way; if the messenger gets shot, it is usually at close range and fatal.
he’s talking about cruise ships derr
chookcooker is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 00:19
  #217 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: at home
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
Because you’ll be doing bugger all flying until the new EBA is voted up, which is dependent on some arbitrary fleet wide flying hours. $255/hr equates to very little actual income as you’ll be scrounging for flight hours.
I'm just trying to understand the argument here. Are you saying that the expectation is for a full salary despite not doing much work and the company earning little revenue? It would appear that the problem is not the pay on offer, but it is more to do with the fact there are too many pilots for the work available. Am I wrong in suggesting that the purest solution is to make half the work force redundant so that the remaining pilots are working a reasonable amount and therefore getting paid a reasonable amount? The alternative being that you keep all pilots on the books, to protect their jobs, but you can't reasonably expect the Bain to foot the bill for excess pilot numbers can you?
virginexcess is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 00:27
  #218 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 562
Originally Posted by virginexcess View Post
I'm just trying to understand the argument here. Are you saying that the expectation is for a full salary despite not doing much work and the company earning little revenue? It would appear that the problem is not the pay on offer, but it is more to do with the fact there are too many pilots for the work available. Am I wrong in suggesting that the purest solution is to make half the work force redundant so that the remaining pilots are working a reasonable amount and therefore getting paid a reasonable amount? The alternative being that you keep all pilots on the books, to protect their jobs, but you can't reasonably expect the Bain to foot the bill for excess pilot numbers can you?
I was answering the question you asked, no argument:

How is $255/hr for a captain a 40% pay cut?
Most can expect a severe reduction in pay as a result.
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 01:26
  #219 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 562
If you’re asking why I’m so negative towards Bain (and most of the corporate world), take a broader look at what’s going on.

The “rescue”, as it has been erroneously labeled, happened as a result of a master stroke of corporate malfeasance. VA was run into the ground by a hopelessly inept ruling class. The company wouldn’t need rescuing if it had been run properly in the first place. Previous CEOs knowingly destroyed the airline for personal gain. YOU PAY.

Armed with the heroic persona it gave itself, Bain is now charging to our rescue; another hopelessly inept group of ruling class purporting to be management. The crisis created by their own kind is now continuing into perpetuity, and their bank accounts. YOU PAY.

The “rescue package“, on offer is done so safe in the knowledge that we all have bills to pay, kids to school, mortgages, etc... I’ve never seen a rescue where the one being rescued is done so at gunpoint. Have you? Now we are all fighting one another for the “opportunity” to avail ourselves of this gunpoint rescue. The pilot group turns on itself. YOU PAY.

People get on here propagating the idea that to lie back and think of England is the only way to save yourselves. We’re even supposed to be thankful. Why is it that aviation is the only skilled industry on earth that exists in a constant state of economic hardship, yet returns record growth, record profits, record management salaries?

I don’t buy one little bit of the offer. If Bain truly want to rescue the airline, they should focus on getting the fleet back in the air as soon as domestic borders open again and start the revenue flowing, instead of starting a dirty war with its staff. If only we had laws against collective “negotiations” under duress in this country.

We will all likely lose a friend or acquaintance through this, and I don’t mean not being mates anymore, people will be enveloped by the stress and some won’t make it through. Yet we are all supposed to be thankful for the “rescue”, fvck that!

Airline staff are NOT expensive and they work bloody hard, usually making many times their “cost” in revenue every year.

Out...
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2020, 02:04
  #220 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sydney
Posts: 248
Rumours coming out of ML a certain aircraft wont start, 3 weeks of efforts and still scratching heads...introduce fuel and she just dies
onehitwonder is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.