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Virgin 3.0

Old 26th Sep 2020, 08:31
  #181 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Asia
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
Let us get some facts straight here:

-Crew salaries are not the reason why this company could not make any profits-

In fact, the Front Line Staff with all the awards they achieved, were the only ones making money for the company. It was certainly not from the continuous ineptitude from 'The Watchers', making the rookiest decisions over and over again, only to be rewarded with 15% pay-cut.

Bitter pill to swallow.
I agree with Blackout.
Its a bargaining agreement, so bargain. Vote no if you donít like it. Make sure the unions know what you want.
The company has saved big on leases and staff cuts, donít put yourselves in a poor position. Nothing worse than working your asses off and not being able to pay the mortgage.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 08:35
  #182 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 745
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post
Forget about the past largesse, if you don't like the new terms and conditions don't take the job...
Nah - those who don't like it can leave for Emirates or Qatar or Cathay or Air Japan or a retirement job in Fiji or.....

Then assuming Bain actually accept the keys to their less than shiny new airline AND Rex do get up and running - who's going to be around in 3-5 years, QF/JQ or V3.0 or RexJet??

Three airlines in Oz has worked so spiffingly well in the past - what could possibly go wrong this time??

With QF having to address the negative cashflow at sometime, V3.0 owners and management stripping any value out as soon and as fast as they can (because it's the frog and scorpion scenario: they can't help themselves, it's what they are) and the small newbie trying to establish their niche...who'll be around in 3-5 years??

Back your judgement, place your bets!

Cheers

galdian is online now  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 08:41
  #183 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,414
There will be more to follow. I did warn you. Whatever you do, do exactly what Bain wants you to do or you will be out of a job very quickly. The Bain guys have their minds set on what they will receive on “exit day”. For the main players, it will be several million or more each. Do NOT get between those guys and that money or they will crush you without even thinking.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 08:48
  #184 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
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Originally Posted by Tubman601 View Post
I agree with Blackout.
Its a bargaining agreement, so bargain. Vote no if you donít like it. Make sure the unions know what you want.
The company has saved big on leases and staff cuts, donít put yourselves in a poor position. Nothing worse than working your asses off and not being able to pay the mortgage.
Fair enough, just be aware that Bain/V3.0 management probably view it differently - two sides to every story and all that stuff.

Also if it wasn't for Bain VA would have been liquidated (I talk as this is where things are) and you'd all be out on the street.

You don't have to be grateful but you certainly have to realise the game your playing against your (potential) new owner, whether you think it's fair or reasonable or not they don't give a shit.

Paul Keating once famously said "never get between a premier and a bucket of money".

I'd suggest the same regards the Bains of the world - except they'd make premiers look like pussies in what they'll do to secure their bucket of money.

Cheers
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 09:08
  #185 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 524
So what exact outcome can the no voters expect from Bain?
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 09:31
  #186 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Somewhere
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Fair enough, just be aware that Bain/V3.0 management probably view it differently - two sides to every story and all that stuff.

Also if it wasn't for Bain VA would have been liquidated (I talk as this is where things are) and you'd all be out on the street.

You don't have to be grateful but you certainly have to realise the game your playing against your (potential) new owner, whether you think it's fair or reasonable or not they don't give a shit.
You can run that argument both ways though. It will come down to either who blinks first or ultimately what a court decides.

Pilots might be completely unreasonable but end of the day in any job you get what you can negotiate. Reasonable or not.

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Old 26th Sep 2020, 09:59
  #187 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
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Originally Posted by non_state_actor View Post
You can run that argument both ways though. It will come down to either who blinks first or ultimately what a court decides.

Pilots might be completely unreasonable but end of the day in any job you get what you can negotiate. Reasonable or not.
Agree, from outside my concern is some may not have accepted things are VERY different and view things/plan on that basis.

I would even wonder how effective the accepted "protections" of FWC and current industrial practices may be - "unprecedented times...." and all that crap.

I'd also expect Bain/V3,0 have set up a "how far can we push, how far can we screw them" back office to look at all areas (once again the frog/scorpion scenario).

Fight for what you can to retain/minimise loss (either collectively or individually) but be very wary and do not underestimate the opposition.

As a final - and may sound extreme - but do not allow yourselves to be backed into a corner where somehow Bain/V3.0 management can advertise for DE Captains or F/O's - they'd probably get more than a few applications!

Best of luck, understand your adversary!
Cheers






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Old 26th Sep 2020, 09:59
  #188 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia the Awesome
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
Most would say that CASA donít even get involved in safety related issues.
Gold;-);-);-);-)
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 10:08
  #189 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 132
On behalf of all of PPRuNe, please STFU Sunfish.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 10:35
  #190 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by TimmyTee View Post
On behalf of all of PPRuNe, please STFU Sunfish.
Amen Timmy
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 10:41
  #191 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 45
Posts: 1,138
Bain has always forever, stripped the guts out of a company, sold its assets, destroy all the contracts with staff, then leave with pocket money once the whole company collapses, I really fear for Virgin.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 11:14
  #192 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 745
Originally Posted by TimmyTee View Post
On behalf of all of PPRuNe, please STFU Sunfish.
Listen to everyone and filter, even the village idiot (we are in context with V3.0 after all) may say something of value for consideration.

If you're scared to consider what he's saying - grow some balls.

For those who consider the future of V3.0 comprises rainbows, unicorns blowing tinsel from their arse and so on - I apologise if reality is offensive to some.

Cheers
galdian is online now  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 11:38
  #193 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 462
TimmyTee I am not sure you are authorised (or even qualified) to speak for all of PPRuNe.

CC
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 11:40
  #194 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 524
I apologise if reality is offensive to some
We make our own reality, giving up is only one version.

gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2020, 11:53
  #195 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 524
Bain has just declared the most audacious war on pilotsí pay and conditions weíve aver seen. Bain will draw the fight out as long as possible with all the threats of redundancies and end of days BS.

Meanwhile, Australia emerges from COVID, domestic travel booms and the one airline who is attempting a rebirth misses out.

Wouldnít it be a shame for Bain if they were too busy fighting a false war on pilot salaries to reap a return on their investment.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 12:42
  #196 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
Bain has just declared the most audacious war on pilotsí pay and conditions weíve aver seen. Bain will draw the fight out as long as possible with all the threats of redundancies and end of days BS.

Meanwhile, Australia emerges from COVID, domestic travel booms and the one airline who is attempting a rebirth misses out.

Wouldnít it be a shame for Bain if they were too busy fighting a false war on pilot salaries to reap a return on their investment.
Bain don't gave a f**k about pilot pay/conditions.

Bain will attack ALL aspects of the operation to extract the MAXIMUM reduction of costs by WHATEVER means they can, pilot pay/conditions only one aspect of their purview.

Best of luck, deal with the "new new" but if the future's not full of rainbows and arse exploding unicorns please don't try to say "but what happened...we were never told...it wasn't fair...blah blah".

Cheers
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 12:52
  #197 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 524
Originally Posted by galdian View Post
Bain don't gave a f**k about pilot pay/conditions.

Bain will attack ALL aspects of the operation to extract the MAXIMUM reduction of costs by WHATEVER means they can, pilot pay/conditions only one aspect of their purview.

Best of luck, deal with the "new new" but if the future's not full of rainbows and arse exploding unicorns please don't try to say "but what happened...we were never told...it wasn't fair...blah blah".

Cheers
I wasnít saying they give a fvck about pilot pay and conditions. They will give a fvck about their expensive acquisition becoming worthless by being consumed with a fight they donít need to have. I say again, the expensive pilot theory is a fallacy that has never been proven. Vote No, Bainís only move after that would be to blow their money.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 13:37
  #198 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,414
Timmy tee, you fail reading comprehension. I told you at the outset what Bain would be like. I comment now that if current VB pilots don’t agree to the new agreement, you will be fired and replaced by foreign B737 pilots. You don’t think this can’t happen? Think again.

To put it another way, Bain don’t dick around. They have real money at stake. They couldn’t give a proverbial flying #@$% about you, CASA or anyone else. They would go straight to the treasurer and threaten him with Wall streets displeasure. That would mean increased interest rates on Government borrowing and that would mean tens of thousands more unemployed - far more than a few Virgin pilots. I say again, you were warned.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 14:09
  #199 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 450
VA pay looks pretty good still- We just got our email and I reckon I will need to hit Sco Mo up for food stamps.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 14:11
  #200 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay View Post
I wasnít saying they give a fvck about pilot pay and conditions. They will give a fvck about their expensive acquisition becoming worthless by being consumed with a fight they donít need to have. I say again, the expensive pilot theory is a fallacy that has never been proven. Vote No, Bainís only move after that would be to blow their money.
1. Until they get the keys they have NOT acquired V3.0, certainly looks they will but have to expect they have provisions to minimise losses if they decide not to, tax loss may be OK in their worldwide scheme of things

2. Bain will have a multitude of options about how things may pan out

3. "vote no and their only option is to blow their money"?? Seriously??

Cheers



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