Wikiposts
Search
Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF Group Ground Handling Cuts

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 25th Aug 2020, 03:02
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
QF Group Ground Handling Cuts

Jetstar is terminating 370 employees in a move to outsource 100% of their ground handling function. Qantas will go through a 'bid' process with internal and external groups for ground handling across Australia.

https://www.afr.com/companies/transp...0200825-p55p3o

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...25-p55p3l.html
PPRuNeUser0198 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 03:22
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,285
Received 351 Likes on 191 Posts
It's pretty much what happened with Catering a few years back. Those jobs are outsourced and are technically not part of the group, which means the official headcount of employees reduces, but those people are still doing the same work for a new outsourcing provider.
dr dre is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 03:33
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not exactly. Qantas sold their catering business (what remained) to Dnata. The Cairns and Sydney units to Gate Gourmet back in 2012.

This is a case of outsourcing versus insourcing. This enables competitive labour pricing pressure and greater workforce flexibility without the liabilities Qantas retains today. Whilst many of these workers will secure new roles at third-party handlers - not all will. And for now - most of them won't. What will be interesting is how much 'productivity' will be relinquished by the current in-house teams in order to avoid outsourcing to third-parties. That will be very interesting as I am sure the QF award is more favourable than say a Swissport or Menzies etc. But I don't know...
PPRuNeUser0198 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 04:14
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 32 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Vasis
Not exactly. Qantas sold their catering business (what remained) to Dnata. The Cairns and Sydney units to Gate Gourmet back in 2012.

This is a case of outsourcing versus insourcing. This enables competitive labour pricing pressure and greater workforce flexibility without the liabilities Qantas retains today. Whilst many of these workers will secure new roles at third-party handlers - not all will. And for now - most of them won't. What will be interesting is how much 'productivity' will be relinquished by the current in-house teams in order to avoid outsourcing to third-parties. That will be very interesting as I am sure the QF award is more favourable than say a Swissport or Menzies etc. But I don't know...
Ask any Dnata/snapfresh worker how happy they are being ineligible for jobkeeper as its foreign owned.
unobtanium is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 04:29
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Age: 68
Posts: 1,913
Received 295 Likes on 124 Posts
It’s the Tiger model. Outsource every single thing aside Pilots. Even Tiger went down the path of contract Cabin Crew via third party operators however ended in tears.

Swissport have plenty of Tiger Airbus equipment laying around.
PoppaJo is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 04:31
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 3 Posts
From what I have witnessed outsourcing ground staff never really works and results in many unintended problems as a result. I am sure it's cheaper on paper though.

Last edited by non_state_actor; 25th Aug 2020 at 04:42.
non_state_actor is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 04:36
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 32 Likes on 13 Posts
I know afew AeroNOcare staff, and they were treated so badly turnover rate was ridiculous. Same with Swissport, Oceania or whatever they're called now. Basically if you don't like it, leave. Promotions, good shifts and management positions for mates only.
unobtanium is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 05:47
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: New York
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hoping AF keeps us in-house at JFK. We're the last of the foreign carriers at JFK to do so.
Adambrau is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 06:29
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Great South East, tired and retired
Posts: 4,366
Received 203 Likes on 92 Posts
Why don't they outsource Joyce?
Ascend Charlie is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 06:32
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 787
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Vasis
Not exactly. Qantas sold their catering business (what remained) to Dnata. The Cairns and Sydney units to Gate Gourmet back in 2012.

This is a case of outsourcing versus insourcing. This enables competitive labour pricing pressure and greater workforce flexibility without the liabilities Qantas retains today. Whilst many of these workers will secure new roles at third-party handlers - not all will. And for now - most of them won't. What will be interesting is how much 'productivity' will be relinquished by the current in-house teams in order to avoid outsourcing to third-parties. That will be very interesting as I am sure the QF award is more favourable than say a Swissport or Menzies etc. But I don't know...
labour pricing pressure & workforce flexibility really works so well!!,lets take the aged care sector as an example,what can go wrong.
blubak is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 06:58
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Dunda
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Very few will want to stay on as Swissport, who in their right mind goes from full time hitting $100-120k/year to casual making $22/hr on 3 hour shifts. All ground crew knew this would happen eventually.

There will certainly be plenty of tears along the way for Qantas. If you’re ever flying on a Friday night or Sunday make sure you don’t pack a bag because you’ll be waiting awhile.
patty50 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 07:10
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sfo
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Swissport will be rubbing their hands together with this one and VA will follow suit shortly and all ramp services in all Australian airports will be provided by third party contractors.

Sad day for those involved they will go from a heavily unionised workforce loading a 737 with 6 people on $100k a year each and great staff travel benefits to loading it with 3 people on a good day, being paid $60k each full time with no benefits and greatly reduced rostering benefits.

This will be a tough pill to swallow but likely was going to happen over the next 5-10 years anyway. COVID/19 has simply accelerated the process, provided justification and prompted QF and JQ to act in this exceptionally rare time there will be minimal operational impact.

if this was attempted outside of COVID the staff would have walked off the job by now with airports severely disrupted. The unions will be furious that’s a lot of their hardcore members gone.
Superman1 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 08:04
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 787
Received 66 Likes on 35 Posts
Originally Posted by Superman1
Swissport will be rubbing their hands together with this one and VA will follow suit shortly and all ramp services in all Australian airports will be provided by third party contractors.

Sad day for those involved they will go from a heavily unionised workforce loading a 737 with 6 people on $100k a year each and great staff travel benefits to loading it with 3 people on a good day, being paid $60k each full time with no benefits and greatly reduced rostering benefits.

This will be a tough pill to swallow but likely was going to happen over the next 5-10 years anyway. COVID/19 has simply accelerated the process, provided justification and prompted QF and JQ to act in this exceptionally rare time there will be minimal operational impact.

if this was attempted outside of COVID the staff would have walked off the job by now with airports severely disrupted. The unions will be furious that’s a lot of their hardcore members gone.
100k a year for how many hrs a week?,not 38 i can tell u.
Maybe you would like to elaborate on the great staff travel benefits too?
Standby only with low priority,that does seen great,doesnt it!
blubak is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 08:25
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sure there are a few full time rampies pulling big bucks, but the vast majority of new hires for at least the last 5-10 years were already employed by a subsidiary, Qantas Ground Services.
This led to a workforce predominantly guaranteed 20h/week and salary generally equal to or in some cases, less than the ground handling companies they compete with.
Trying to break free from these conditions was an aim of the last EBA negotiations.
So i'm not sure how much $$ they will save on staff, but perhaps capital expenses.. if they have to buy 50 new tugs over the next few years I think they can easily get to $250K each.
lc_461 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 08:39
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,878
Likes: 0
Received 244 Likes on 105 Posts
to casual making $22/hr on 3 hour shifts.
Minimum casual wage is $24.80 per hour.

Based on the full time hourly rate of $19.84 with a 25% loading.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/how-we-w.../minimum-wages


Why don't they outsource Joyce?
Because "they" benchmark management packages against New York and London but the workers wages against Mumbai and Dhaka.
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 08:42
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Maybe they are factoring in the saving from reduced worker’s compensation claims, it’s rumoured the costs of this alone are huge.
flyingfrenchman is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 08:44
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Dunda
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lc_461
Sure there are a few full time rampies pulling big bucks, but the vast majority of new hires for at least the last 5-10 years were already employed by a subsidiary, Qantas Ground Services.
This led to a workforce predominantly guaranteed 20h/week and salary generally equal to or in some cases, less than the ground handling companies they compete with.
Trying to break free from these conditions was an aim of the last EBA negotiations.
Having worked for both QGS and Aerocare I can promise you QGS will pay about double over a fortnight with plenty of time on your arse to watch football, play cards, study, whatever.

Pre-covid plenty of QGS part timers hitting 70-90k, it’s significantly more than many other blue collar type full time jobs. A QAL full timer doing zero overtime will hit 80k, with sickies, LSL, 20th days, DILs and annual leave they only work 40 weeks a year.

On compo, for QAL it is self insured and the rorts are truly impressive. Smash out the overtime for 3 months pick your ailment of choice, tell Doc it hurts when you drive and stay home for 6 months doing whatever.
patty50 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 08:49
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,878
Likes: 0
Received 244 Likes on 105 Posts
Maybe they are factoring in the saving from reduced worker’s compensation claims, it’s rumoured the costs of this alone are huge.
Normally covered by the obligatory insurance not the employer.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/workers-compensation
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 10:41
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's the way of doing business, max profits for the smallest outlay! Airlines exist to make money, they are not there to make everyone happy or doing it for fun!
machtuk is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2020, 12:44
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From a simple back of the envelope calculation: if outsourcing 2500 jobs will save $100M/year, then they think they can get they equivalent job done for $40,000 less per employee.

Now, if Patty speaks the truth, it could be that simple. But I doubt Patty speaks for the majority of ground staff. That would be like saying “all pilots earn $400K! Surely we can outsource pilots for half that!”

The fact that Tino/Alan actually did threaten something similar to their pilots just 8 months ago hasn’t escaped me, but I digress.

Given that you wouldn’t be likely to be able to shave $40K off an average cleaner’s wage and expect them to re-apply to the contracting mob, there must be some fat in there somewhere that we’re missing.

The only clue I’ve found so far was actually in clear sight in the press release: it “includes management roles”.

Ahh.
Derfred is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.