Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Mildura Airport ILS - Wrong Way?

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Mildura Airport ILS - Wrong Way?

Old 31st Jul 2020, 08:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
Posts: 3,319
Received 174 Likes on 70 Posts
Wonder who is going to maintain it? Airservices normally maintain navaids. Also, if they are going to charge you $55 a time to use it, how will they know if you used it or not, or will it be assumed that if you are on an IFR plan and approach from the "Adelaide end" you used it (even if you did not)?
Traffic_Is_Er_Was is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 10:32
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Enzed
Posts: 2,289
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
GBAS isn't a practical option for most non heavy jet operators but SBAS is and I believe it is belatedly on its way to this part of the world. Not before time.
27/09 is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 12:03
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Somewhere South
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wrong way round or upside down!
PaulH1 is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 15:17
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,880
Received 362 Likes on 192 Posts
Easy lads, break out at 200' with a 40 knot westerly, visual circuit at 200', and bingo land 27.
megan is online now  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 20:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sierra village
Posts: 656
Received 102 Likes on 51 Posts
The article states users will be charged $55 every time they make an “ILS landing”.... whatever one of those is. I’m trying to get my head around how they will know that their prized new ILS is being “used”. Does this mean you only get charged if met. conditions are below non precision minima? Or does an inbound call now have to include reading out your credit card number to allow someone to turn on the GP transmitter? And what if you do a missed approach and come back for another one do you get charged $110 for using it twice? Do training aircraft who make multiple practise ILS approaches with GAs and never actually land on 27 get to use it for free?

Conundrums of The Swamp.
lucille is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 21:18
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 306
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Maybe they just want to do lots of LOC backcourse training.
clark y is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 21:59
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
Posts: 1,088
Received 146 Likes on 33 Posts
Originally Posted by lucille
The article states users will be charged $55 every time they make an “ILS landing”.... whatever one of those is. I’m trying to get my head around how they will know that their prized new ILS is being “used”. Does this mean you only get charged if met. conditions are below non precision minima? Or does an inbound call now have to include reading out your credit card number to allow someone to turn on the GP transmitter? And what if you do a missed approach and come back for another one do you get charged $110 for using it twice? Do training aircraft who make multiple practise ILS approaches with GAs and never actually land on 27 get to use it for free?

Conundrums of The Swamp.
They’ll turn it off and leave it turned off until someone requests it be turned on for a practice ILS and then pay someone $30 an hour to flick the switch and take note of the rego at 200’. ERSA to read “Switching person only available 9.30-4.30 Mon -Thurs and 10-3 on Friday. ILS not available in IMC, for early morning arrivals in fg or br, or on weekends”. Simples. The Australian Way.

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 31st Jul 2020 at 22:15.
DirectAnywhere is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 22:43
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,564
Received 89 Likes on 32 Posts
I predict advances in location technology and autopilot logic will make ILS and the whole panoply of IFR operations redundant in a few years. Assuming straight forward design of the approach, any experimental bug smasher will have the capability-whether CASA and Airservices approves it or not. This phenomenon is called “being overtaken by disruptive technology”.

Anecdotally I’m told that some in the RV community already toy with IMC conditions without any approvals.
Sunfish is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 23:48
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Dark Side
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Ex FSO GRIFFO
'History' repeating itself......... It reminds me of 'de good ole days' when the FSU that USED to be there was built......

Apparently, during construction, the foreman or whoever, got his N mixed up with his S, or L with R, or whatever, and the pad for the building was installed - the wrong way around.

So they simply finished the construction, including the internal fit- out, and the MET had had the nice look out over the RWYS, whilst the FSO viewed the carpark and the lawn where the 'Stevenson Screen' was.!

(Yeah, I am acutely aware that 'we' were not supposed to look out of the window anyway - but in locations where 'we' could, it certainly assisted in the occasional emergency... e.g. Dubbo (Upstairs) Derby (Upstairs), KAL - ground floor but BIG window installed especially....)

Cheeerrrrssss (?)

Hi Griffo. Yep the view of the stevenson screen was truly a magnificent sight but my wife (not an FSO) and i enjoyed a great six years there.

And for what its worth based on my time there RWY 27 was used significantly more than RWY 09.

Fly safe and play hard (when you can)

Cheers Hoss 58

Last edited by hoss58; 31st Jul 2020 at 23:52. Reason: left out a word
hoss58 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 00:13
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,244
Received 188 Likes on 84 Posts
Anecdotally I’m told that some in the RV community already toy with IMC conditions without any approvals.
Anyone who "toys" with IMC is likely to have their toys smashed when they discover that IMC is not to be played with.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 00:29
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a box
Posts: 348
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by megan
Easy lads, break out at 200' with a 40 knot westerly, visual circuit at 200', and bingo land 27.
Thats what the brains trust at Virgin flight standards will have you do. Single engine and the offsider incapacitated.
Servo is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 01:11
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Perth
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Paying for a practice ILS is nothing new. I vaguely remember Essendon and Avalon charging GA aircraft for practice ILS's about 15 years ago (probably still the case now). Of course it's much easier to track who's doing the ILS when operating in CTA and charge them accordingly. I'd imagine in class G, you'd have someone listening on the CTAF frequency for inbound calls with a cash register till beside them.
VH DSJ is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 01:21
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 451
Received 19 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by VH DSJ
Paying for a practice ILS is nothing new. I vaguely remember Essendon and Avalon charging GA aircraft for practice ILS's about 15 years ago (probably still the case now). Of course it's much easier to track who's doing the ILS when operating in CTA and charge them accordingly. I'd imagine in class G, you'd have someone listening on the CTAF frequency for inbound calls with a cash register till beside them.
Tell ‘em you’re doing the RNAV 09 (and have the ILS on as well) - they would both align pretty well 🤪

Last edited by On eyre; 1st Aug 2020 at 06:25.
On eyre is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 05:14
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: at the edge of the alps
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by George Glass
GBAS , GLS and RNP are the future. Training new pilots to fly an ILS only is as useful as an NDB approach.
But , of course , this is Australia. Sigh............
They are If only because you don’t need transmitter hardware to publish new approaches but ILS isn’t going to disappear anytime soon and needs to be trained. I fly around Europe and have a single Alpine airport where RNP is required for the approach.
Alpine Flyer is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 06:04
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Alpine Flyer
They are If only because you don’t need transmitter hardware to publish new approaches but ILS isn’t going to disappear anytime soon and needs to be trained. I fly around Europe and have a single Alpine airport where RNP is required for the approach.
GLS in a Boeing is almost identical to an ILS with almost no training differences , except that it is a whole lot better . No beam interference and one station covers up to 30nm radius . And Cat III will be certified soon . Cost might be an issue now but I’ll bet there will be cheap MMRs for GA aircraft sooner rather than later.
If you had the choice why would you spend money on an ILS ?
George Glass is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 07:35
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,282
Received 162 Likes on 83 Posts
Mildura doesn't need an ILS. Qantas and Virgin proved that!
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 07:41
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 76
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
I slight drift here but anybody tell me what the approach was at NZQN pre RNP?

Copy of a chart would be of interest
Chris2303 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 07:54
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don’t have a chart but from memory it was a VOR/DME with a 5.4% gradient and a stupidly high minima. Not for the faint hearted.
George Glass is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 08:49
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,067
Received 138 Likes on 63 Posts
GLS in a Boeing is almost identical to an ILS with almost no training differences, except that it is a whole lot better . No beam interference and one station covers up to 30nm radius . And Cat III will be certified soon . Cost might be an issue now but I’ll bet there will be cheap MMRs for GA aircraft sooner rather than later.
If you had the choice why would you spend money on an ILS ?
Problem with that argument is that the technology is already 25 years old and the CAT III was supposed to be around in the mid 2000s. Now here we are in 2020, with only late model airliners fitted with the equipment and the Nav Aids only found in Sydney and Melbourne I think you will be waiting a long time for your cheap GA unit.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2020, 10:00
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The fact that Cat III doesn’t exist in Australia and that Cat II has only been introduced in the last couple of years has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with bureaucratic inertia and stupidity. The argument from AirServices and CASA for twenty years was that weather and traffic didn’t justify Cat II in Sydney and Melbourne. Until it did. We never lead. We are never proactive. Would be nice if just once we did something innovative. Do a google search and you’ll find that the anticipated market for MMRs is huge. Just not in Australia........
George Glass is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.