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The future of VARA?

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Old 16th Jul 2020, 05:43
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It would be a strategic folly to allow QF or Alliance to get them.
It would depend on what your strategy is surely? If you want a single type Australia wide airline, like Virgin Blue used to be, then sell the profitable VARA business unit by all means.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 06:09
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
It would depend on what your strategy is surely? If you want a single type Australia wide airline, like Virgin Blue used to be, then sell the profitable VARA business unit by all means.
However while VARA holds the AOC, virgin holds the contracts. The wider RPT network connects those FIFO workers to that Fokker heading to the mine.

Alliance and Rex have been capital raising getting ready. It’ll be snakes and ladders over the next year or so.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 07:05
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Not sure that I agree that denying QF a handful of tired old airframes will make any difference to their complete market dominance.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 07:14
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Originally Posted by jethro_027
Spot on. Given the paucity of this type, allowing QF or QQ to get their hands these airframes at fire sale prices would be lunacy. Unless the commercial terms were lucrative, denying the use of these assets may well be the smarter strategic choice.
The airframes are essentially worthless without RR engine support, VARA has struggled with sourcing serviceable Tays.
Was under the impression VARA Fokkers are owned not leased.

Who knows how lucrative the resources contracts actually are. Tendered by the same people that sent VAH broke with a often proclaimed 1 billion cash reserve, and paid Karl (an employee) $9million when they bought Velocity back.
The administrator couldn’t find that fabled $1 billion CASH and had to run to the federal government asking for a bailout.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 07:37
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The mining contracts are quite lucrative financially and will be for the foreseeable future.

Removing the entire cost layer of VARA and everything single thing associated with it, essentially shutting it down, and operating these routes with Mainline 737s, would still be quite a highly profitable operation.

A lot of doors will open with the new single fleet run venture. Costs will drop like a rock. VARA had so so many layers of cost.

Its fairly obvious the future of Virgin is just 70 737s. That’s it. Anything else that is not associated be with these 70 machines is dust.
While there is big numbers involved in Mining Contracts I'm not sure how big the margins are. Given the amount of competition in the mining market I would suggest that there isn't much in those operations. Obviously the on carriage is probably where the value lies for the domestic airlines. In reality noone really knows what the true value of the F100 is except the accountants. Whilst the 737 carries many more passengers for the same if not less fuel burn, is more reliable, the finance cost of the machines is considerably higher. You can't just have 180 seat aircraft sitting around waiting, while if you own an airframe outright it really doesn't matter. I would suggest that if it was cheaper to get a 737/A320 and just fly it to a mine 2x everyday, then everyone would be doing that as they are a very common airframe to source worldwide and are much more efficient to operate. The fact that all operators run F100's would suggest that a all 737/320 fleet is probably not going to be competitive.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 07:43
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
Not sure that I agree that denying QF a handful of tired old airframes will make any difference to their complete market dominance.
Agreed, its a single type NB fleet. Reduce overheads = remove the vara silo. how many line spare airframes do you need to keep 14 fokkers airworthy. Probably 3-4.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 07:47
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Originally Posted by non_state_actor
The fact that all operators run F100's would suggest that a all 737/320 fleet is probably not going to be competitive.
Bain has publicly expressed a desire to renegotiate lease terms on the 73N with power by the hour, which if realised will solve the low utilisation issue you've highlighted. Brave new world.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 10:38
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1-2 seems to work but is more in line with keeping the contract happy I.e. minimal disruption of late reliability has been high due to reduced rpt flights giving the spares that are needed Virgin will need to ensure that the mines are kept happy as it’s not a case of sorry your flights delayed there is only one customer on a resource sector flight, RPT is a different animal virgin/Qantas are good at doing that resource flying is something that needs a more focused way of operating
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 11:26
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Just me or think making things too hard:

- all contracts utilise 737 and V2 benefit from cost synergy
- for the (minimal?) times a 737 can't do the job/something else is required subcontract with fairly strict compliance requirements to minimise customer being f**ked around.

All talk always said lots of slack in "the village", maybe a few people could sit down and crunch the concept.

Own the contract doesn't mean you have to own the machinery - just have to manage properly.

Apparently a VA strongpoint!
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 11:43
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Originally Posted by galdian
Just me or think making things too hard:

- all contracts utilise 737 and V2 benefit from cost synergy
- for the (minimal?) times a 737 can't do the job/something else is required subcontract with fairly strict compliance requirements to minimise customer being f**ked around.

All talk always said lots of slack in "the village", maybe a few people could sit down and crunch the concept.

Own the contract doesn't mean you have to own the machinery - just have to manage properly.

Apparently a VA strongpoint!
the resource mob won’t tolerate it for long they pay for virgin metal not someone else , is why it isn’t a VA or QF thing both mobs get specialized operators to deal with it during an AOG the client becomes the focus where as with in an RPT op it’s managed differently the punters in the terminal soon forget the delay or are happy to rebook same airline again based on price , the resource guys hit you hard for each delay get a couple in a week and your flying all month for free
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 12:02
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the resource mob won’t tolerate it for long they pay for virgin metal not someone else , is why it isn’t a VA or QF thing both mobs get specialized operators to deal with it during an AOG the client becomes the focus where as with in an RPT op it’s managed differently the punters in the terminal soon forget the delay or are happy to rebook same airline again based on price , the resource guys hit you hard for each delay get a couple in a week and your flying all month for free
Is this managed by having standby airframes sitting around ready to go?
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 12:38
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Usually the later departures a/c will be back up for early flights with some days having a spare all day the old Fokker isn’t as unreliable as advertised it’s just a different op if you want to do rpt that’s your thing charter is another ball game few do both well .
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 17:12
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Not to mention certain resource charters have extra insurance requirements (mainly for the smaller operators) but I imagine there's some for VARA too... e.g. only certain listed pilots to operate into a field, minimum equipment requirement, max allowable extension of departure time, and so on.

Also, if you have to ask if a Fokker does better into most FIFO airports, you obviously weren't around during the mid 00s boom. Couldn't buy them for love nor money. XR were slaving to track them down.

Maybe it's changed now but I recall many a time leaving a 146 or a Dash 8 in our dust on a 40C day...
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 09:44
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Bain are not renegotiating the existing EA.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:14
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List the Runways a 737 can not operate from 700 or a 800 with 27K bump
At 40C, Coondewanna, Barimunya, West Angelese, and any other runway around 2000m or under.
Just face it, your 60s technology dinosaur is a pile of crap
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:52
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Originally Posted by airdualbleedfault
At 40C, Coondewanna, Barimunya, West Angelese, and any other runway around 2000m or under.
Just face it, your 60s technology dinosaur is a pile of crap
Do you want a hug?
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 00:31
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VARA has an East Coast operation (ATR RPT).

How would those employees fare in a VARA reshuffle?
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 00:41
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East coast op long gone , absorbed into VA years ago
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 00:46
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ATR is just a distant memory now. Could of been good but soon as VA got their hands on it they completely F$&ked it and most likely my career and a lot of others.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 01:25
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Wasn’t the atr bought in house at the behest of a federal regulator after a series of incidents and a bent ATR that continued to fly RPT services.
Sure let’s erase the past and play the victim card. It’s all VA’s fault.

Bent ATR
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