1960 Viscount weather incident uncontrolled descent from 19,000 ft
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I contacted ATSB today to ask if there was any record of the VH-BAT dive incident. The lady was most helpful and said as the incident was in 1960 any record would be held at the National Archives. I have submitted the request for information to the NA.
Having flown Viscounts in the RAAF in 1965 I was curious at what would have caused such an unusual manoeuvre in the first place. Perhaps over-controlling during recovery from an unusual attitude? Easy to happen. There were no Viscount full flight simulators in those days so no opportunity to practice realistic unusual attitudes. Was it a CB encounter gone wrong? Wake turbulence? Tornado in certain types of cloud formation? The quoted report from the Viscount history website was written up by someone who had interviewed both pilots.
Re the Ansett Viscount that broke up in mid-air over Botany Bay in November 1961.
By coincidence I talked to a friend of mine today who was a young commercial pilot on duty at the company operations office at the airport on the day of the accident. He said there was a very severe storm with heavy rain over the airport an hour before the departure. He was talking to the pilots of the Viscount during flight planning and were all looking out of the window at the thunder and lightning low cloud and blinding rain. After a while the captain said something like "Well we may as well give it a go" and walked out of the office. That was the last he saw of them. Parts of the aircraft were later found on the actual aerodrome indicating it had broken up almost over the 'drome even though major parts fell into Botany Bay.
At the subsequent Board of Inquiry evidence was presented that at the time of departure of VH-TVC there was a flash of lightning and loud thunder which prompted a remark by someone in the Tower to the effect that it sounded as if an aircraft had blown up.
Makes you wonder in hindsight why the captain chose to depart in such severe weather knowing the aircraft was not fitted with weather radar.
Two of the points made in the summary by the Board of Inquiry into the accident were:
26) At the time of the failure of the starboard outer wing the aircraft was travelling at a speed in excess of 260 knots and at an appreciably higher speed when it struck the water.
(27) It is probable that action by the pilot to recover control of the aircraft during its rapid descent imposed a manoeuvre load on the aircraft which together with its speed and turbulence encountered, produced forces in the aircraft structure greater than it was designed to bear and which failed the starboard outer wing.
Remarkable similarity to the Braniff BAC One Eleven mid-air break-up in clear air between two huge storm cells over Nebraska USA. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braniff_Flight_250
Talked to a Met officer about the Viscount break up over Sydney and he said certain types of super storms can generate violent vortices inside these clouds or in the clear air between them and these clouds have been known to exist in Australia.
Having flown Viscounts in the RAAF in 1965 I was curious at what would have caused such an unusual manoeuvre in the first place. Perhaps over-controlling during recovery from an unusual attitude? Easy to happen. There were no Viscount full flight simulators in those days so no opportunity to practice realistic unusual attitudes. Was it a CB encounter gone wrong? Wake turbulence? Tornado in certain types of cloud formation? The quoted report from the Viscount history website was written up by someone who had interviewed both pilots.
Re the Ansett Viscount that broke up in mid-air over Botany Bay in November 1961.
By coincidence I talked to a friend of mine today who was a young commercial pilot on duty at the company operations office at the airport on the day of the accident. He said there was a very severe storm with heavy rain over the airport an hour before the departure. He was talking to the pilots of the Viscount during flight planning and were all looking out of the window at the thunder and lightning low cloud and blinding rain. After a while the captain said something like "Well we may as well give it a go" and walked out of the office. That was the last he saw of them. Parts of the aircraft were later found on the actual aerodrome indicating it had broken up almost over the 'drome even though major parts fell into Botany Bay.
At the subsequent Board of Inquiry evidence was presented that at the time of departure of VH-TVC there was a flash of lightning and loud thunder which prompted a remark by someone in the Tower to the effect that it sounded as if an aircraft had blown up.
Makes you wonder in hindsight why the captain chose to depart in such severe weather knowing the aircraft was not fitted with weather radar.
Two of the points made in the summary by the Board of Inquiry into the accident were:
26) At the time of the failure of the starboard outer wing the aircraft was travelling at a speed in excess of 260 knots and at an appreciably higher speed when it struck the water.
(27) It is probable that action by the pilot to recover control of the aircraft during its rapid descent imposed a manoeuvre load on the aircraft which together with its speed and turbulence encountered, produced forces in the aircraft structure greater than it was designed to bear and which failed the starboard outer wing.
Remarkable similarity to the Braniff BAC One Eleven mid-air break-up in clear air between two huge storm cells over Nebraska USA. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braniff_Flight_250
Talked to a Met officer about the Viscount break up over Sydney and he said certain types of super storms can generate violent vortices inside these clouds or in the clear air between them and these clouds have been known to exist in Australia.
Last edited by Centaurus; 16th Jul 2020 at 08:00.
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Oh boy you guys are bringing back lots of memories. Can remember the air hostesses walking down the aisle with a basket of barley sugar prior to takeoff and prior to descent. The melamine catering catering dishes with a hot roast in them and meal trays with little slots for for all the items on ones meal tray. As far as the airframe is concerned and the heavy maintenance required to keep the aircraft airworthy suggest you checkout a book titled "Contested Skies."
Despite the operating and maintenance issues TAA and Ansett-AnA achieved high load factors of around 80 percent from introduction of the aircraft and it was initially well patronised before introduction of the B727 and DC9. As a boy I kept a log of the registration and aircraft type that I flew on as passenger and flew on all types of Viscounts 700/800/832 series that were operated by Ansett and TAA. Another issue is that the aircraft was designed such that it had a limited lifespan based on operating cycles etc. due to the nature and limits of the alloys from which it was constructed. My understanding is that the Sud-Aviation Caravelle had a limited lifespan aswell. Besides the Avro 146 the Viscount achieved a high volume of sales compared to any other gas turbine aircraft produced in the UK.
Despite the operating and maintenance issues TAA and Ansett-AnA achieved high load factors of around 80 percent from introduction of the aircraft and it was initially well patronised before introduction of the B727 and DC9. As a boy I kept a log of the registration and aircraft type that I flew on as passenger and flew on all types of Viscounts 700/800/832 series that were operated by Ansett and TAA. Another issue is that the aircraft was designed such that it had a limited lifespan based on operating cycles etc. due to the nature and limits of the alloys from which it was constructed. My understanding is that the Sud-Aviation Caravelle had a limited lifespan aswell. Besides the Avro 146 the Viscount achieved a high volume of sales compared to any other gas turbine aircraft produced in the UK.
Krismiler: [Quote] One of those blowers caused an inflight breakup on 22 September 1966 when it failed and caused a fire which led to the port wing separating. [/QUOTE]
‘’That was Ansett - ANA flight 149.
In my days at Ansett this was still spoken about in lowered tones. There were two problems with the design. The main one being the “pancake” accessory gearbox was the wrong side of the firewall. From memory it mounted the dunlop aviation roots blower, a generator for aircraft power and an alternator for electric deicing power.
The second one (as I was told, but I don’t think was mentioned as the cause) was that the stack of thrust washers on the blower shafts were out of order - the order in the manual was ambiguous and not being designed to make assembly foolproof, and the resultant failure cascaded. A young Roy Perry was superintendent of component overhaul in my day and I was told his father had been superintendent at the time of the accident. I was told that his hair went white over the next few months from the strain and awful conclusion about the cause.
‘’That was Ansett - ANA flight 149.
In my days at Ansett this was still spoken about in lowered tones. There were two problems with the design. The main one being the “pancake” accessory gearbox was the wrong side of the firewall. From memory it mounted the dunlop aviation roots blower, a generator for aircraft power and an alternator for electric deicing power.
The second one (as I was told, but I don’t think was mentioned as the cause) was that the stack of thrust washers on the blower shafts were out of order - the order in the manual was ambiguous and not being designed to make assembly foolproof, and the resultant failure cascaded. A young Roy Perry was superintendent of component overhaul in my day and I was told his father had been superintendent at the time of the accident. I was told that his hair went white over the next few months from the strain and awful conclusion about the cause.
Makes you wonder in hindsight why the captain chose to depart in such severe weather knowing the aircraft was not fitted with weather radar.
Two of the points made in the summary by the Board of Inquiry into the accident were:
26) At the time of the failure of the starboard outer wing the aircraft was travelling at a speed in excess of 260 knots and at an appreciably higher speed when it struck the water.
(27) It is probable that action by the pilot to recover control of the aircraft during its rapid descent imposed a manoeuvre load on the aircraft which together with its speed and turbulence encountered, produced forces in the aircraft structure greater than it was designed to bear and which failed the starboard outer wing.
Two of the points made in the summary by the Board of Inquiry into the accident were:
26) At the time of the failure of the starboard outer wing the aircraft was travelling at a speed in excess of 260 knots and at an appreciably higher speed when it struck the water.
(27) It is probable that action by the pilot to recover control of the aircraft during its rapid descent imposed a manoeuvre load on the aircraft which together with its speed and turbulence encountered, produced forces in the aircraft structure greater than it was designed to bear and which failed the starboard outer wing.
Part of his discussion was how that accident resulted in weather radar becoming required on turbine aircraft in Australia.
EDIT - found it! https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20...146/fnov11.pdf
the article is "The Final Piece of the Puzzle" page 58
Last edited by jonkster; 15th Jul 2020 at 23:38.
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Kangaroota - suggest you google VickersViscount.net for info on the differences between the 700 and 800 series. As a boy travelling on the aircraft type frequently i noticed that the 700 series had oval shaped doors and the 800 series had rectangular doors. Other than that the models differed in fuselage length, improvements in the power delivered by the Rolls Royce darts and seating capacity. The Ansett V832 had the largest seating capacity.
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I flew Viscounts in Oman in the 70s, thought it was a great old lady. We operated around 15,000ft max with the ME temps and only saw higher on the odd trip to Europe. OZ can be very warm in Jan, was he too high at 19,000 and just lost it with the downdraft and turbulence ?
ULH
ULH
