Farewell Events
Apparently these flights sold out within minutes. My attempt began immediately after the flights went live and just as I reached the payment page the system shat itself. Pity as I was on the very first 74 out of Brisbane in 1971 and I was hoping to collect the other bookend.
Apparently these flights sold out within minutes. My attempt began immediately after the flights went live and just as I reached the payment page the system shat itself. Pity as I was on the very first 74 out of Brisbane in 1971 and I was hoping to collect the other bookend.
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Let me guess , someone who rhymes with “weasel“ and is over 600 numbers junior to the most junior legitimate 747 Captain.
Just proves it’s not what you know but who you know , even if their patron got caught out
“ In flagrante delicto “and has been “ moved on “ !
Just proves it’s not what you know but who you know , even if their patron got caught out
“ In flagrante delicto “and has been “ moved on “ !
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 8th Jul 2020 at 12:41.
Nunc est bibendum
Anyone who has done a disposal flight understands full well the bun fight it can be behind the scenes. I suspect these farewell events are likely to be similar. It makes good sense to have Captain Weaver there to deal with that sort of stuff and leave Captains Bracewell, Buddery and Kelly (and their respective crews) to do the actual flying.
Wrong. Are you sure you know his seniority number? You were already wrong with the ‘600’ figure. Or are you that senior that you don’t know what is possible with a seniority number in the mid 600s?
I’ve been lucky enough to know Captain Weaver since 1991. He’s a mate and a friend. Anything he has achieved in Qantas he’s done on the back of doing the grunt work (mostly behind the scenes) and being recognised for that by the Chief Pilot. He didn’t ask to go to the 747 but when you accept the King’s coin, you go where the King tells you to go. I doubt any posters here would have knocked the gig back had they been in the same position. Then again, few posters here would be prepared to do the grunt work that leads to some of the things the Chief Pilot has asked him to do. If you want to gripe about him perhaps talk to the Captain Tobiano given he’s the one that has approved everything Captain Weaver has done for the last 6+ years.
Wrong. Are you sure you know his seniority number? You were already wrong with the ‘600’ figure. Or are you that senior that you don’t know what is possible with a seniority number in the mid 600s?
I’ve been lucky enough to know Captain Weaver since 1991. He’s a mate and a friend. Anything he has achieved in Qantas he’s done on the back of doing the grunt work (mostly behind the scenes) and being recognised for that by the Chief Pilot. He didn’t ask to go to the 747 but when you accept the King’s coin, you go where the King tells you to go. I doubt any posters here would have knocked the gig back had they been in the same position. Then again, few posters here would be prepared to do the grunt work that leads to some of the things the Chief Pilot has asked him to do. If you want to gripe about him perhaps talk to the Captain Tobiano given he’s the one that has approved everything Captain Weaver has done for the last 6+ years.
Last edited by Keg; 8th Jul 2020 at 13:00.
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C’mon Keg...
1. “He didn’t ask to go to the 747”.
So he didn’t apply for the job? What, he was rung up one day and someone pleaded with him to do it? Of course he asked for the job, aka “applied” for it.
2. Just to clarify, are there NO other 747 supervisories able to conduct these flights, based on the “sharing” concept that the company so vigorously promotes?.
1. “He didn’t ask to go to the 747”.
So he didn’t apply for the job? What, he was rung up one day and someone pleaded with him to do it? Of course he asked for the job, aka “applied” for it.
2. Just to clarify, are there NO other 747 supervisories able to conduct these flights, based on the “sharing” concept that the company so vigorously promotes?.
Nunc est bibendum
Well obviously you don’t know the story then stiffwing.
No. He didn’t apply for the 747 tech job. It wasn’t advertised. He’d applied for and had been doing the tech job on the 767 for a few years. He was told when the 767 was retiring that the Chief Pilot wanted him on the 747. Captain Weaver said ‘are you sure’ because he was very aware that he was well junior. He also suggested the 737. He was told ‘yes, we’re sure’. I’m not sure how or when he went from 747 Tech to Head of Boeing Fleet. That was a few years ago though.
I know that Captain Weaver has NOT done all of the 747 disposal flights. Captain Gardiner has done some also. I’m not sure whether Captain Weaver has operated his flights as PIC. Normally someone else operated to LAX and Captain Weaver was along for the ride as a S/O? Perhaps he’s operated PIC LAX-MHV or LAX-VCV sector? I think they used to have a requirement of ‘previous experience’ to operate a ferry flight into there. I know on some 767 disposals flights he wasn’t PIC though he was in a control seat. To be honest I haven’t kept up to speed on the specifics of each flight- never had a need to. Certainly on some of the 767 disposal flights he was in the control seat but not the PIC or PF for many of the sectors into VCV.
As to other 747 ‘supervisories’, who are they at the moment? I think Captain Weaver is the only one. A decision not of his making also. In terms of ‘sharing’ there are three Captains allocated to command these farewell flights ex SYD, CBR and BNE. Captain Weaver is not one of them. Captain Weaver is not commanding the flight ex SYD to LAX. My understanding is that he is not commanding the flight ex LAX to VCV (or Mojave... not sure where it’s going).
All of this information is available through Base Ops if one asks which is where I found out about the SYD-LAX flights.
No. He didn’t apply for the 747 tech job. It wasn’t advertised. He’d applied for and had been doing the tech job on the 767 for a few years. He was told when the 767 was retiring that the Chief Pilot wanted him on the 747. Captain Weaver said ‘are you sure’ because he was very aware that he was well junior. He also suggested the 737. He was told ‘yes, we’re sure’. I’m not sure how or when he went from 747 Tech to Head of Boeing Fleet. That was a few years ago though.
I know that Captain Weaver has NOT done all of the 747 disposal flights. Captain Gardiner has done some also. I’m not sure whether Captain Weaver has operated his flights as PIC. Normally someone else operated to LAX and Captain Weaver was along for the ride as a S/O? Perhaps he’s operated PIC LAX-MHV or LAX-VCV sector? I think they used to have a requirement of ‘previous experience’ to operate a ferry flight into there. I know on some 767 disposals flights he wasn’t PIC though he was in a control seat. To be honest I haven’t kept up to speed on the specifics of each flight- never had a need to. Certainly on some of the 767 disposal flights he was in the control seat but not the PIC or PF for many of the sectors into VCV.
As to other 747 ‘supervisories’, who are they at the moment? I think Captain Weaver is the only one. A decision not of his making also. In terms of ‘sharing’ there are three Captains allocated to command these farewell flights ex SYD, CBR and BNE. Captain Weaver is not one of them. Captain Weaver is not commanding the flight ex SYD to LAX. My understanding is that he is not commanding the flight ex LAX to VCV (or Mojave... not sure where it’s going).
All of this information is available through Base Ops if one asks which is where I found out about the SYD-LAX flights.
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Keg defending the indefensible is most heroic , your loyalty is commendable !
Thanks for the “outing “ .
When your hero has a present seniority # of 652 , at the time of the promotion to the 747 he would have had a much higher seniority # and I believe it was mentioned that it would have just garnered a 737 command in Adelaide with a gap of some 600 odd #’s less than the most junior 747 Captain at the time was mentioned , according to a reliable source on CoM !
His 747 Managerial Patron , some 150 #’s junior to the most junior Captain then , was also mentioned in dispatches at the time !
Post Covid , who knows , with a RIN , Perth Capt 787 ? , 737 Captain base of choice ? Assuming any training ?
This “ promotion” with relatively to his Seniority # at the time was discussed ad infinitum at CoM and where he should end up if he was to lose his Managerial position was discussed !
A most animated discussion that was eventually made “Safe” !
Consideration must also be made for his now departed Patron !
As I said , it’s not what you know , but who you smooze !
My impressions have not been changed subsequently !
Your champion is not a patch on who he “ replaced “.
Good luck with your hero worshipping!
Many compatriots would not agree with your position !
Thanks for the “outing “ .
When your hero has a present seniority # of 652 , at the time of the promotion to the 747 he would have had a much higher seniority # and I believe it was mentioned that it would have just garnered a 737 command in Adelaide with a gap of some 600 odd #’s less than the most junior 747 Captain at the time was mentioned , according to a reliable source on CoM !
His 747 Managerial Patron , some 150 #’s junior to the most junior Captain then , was also mentioned in dispatches at the time !
Post Covid , who knows , with a RIN , Perth Capt 787 ? , 737 Captain base of choice ? Assuming any training ?
This “ promotion” with relatively to his Seniority # at the time was discussed ad infinitum at CoM and where he should end up if he was to lose his Managerial position was discussed !
A most animated discussion that was eventually made “Safe” !
Consideration must also be made for his now departed Patron !
As I said , it’s not what you know , but who you smooze !
My impressions have not been changed subsequently !
Your champion is not a patch on who he “ replaced “.
Good luck with your hero worshipping!
Many compatriots would not agree with your position !
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 8th Jul 2020 at 14:22.
Nunc est bibendum
Defending the indefensible? The company has moved management Captains around however they liked since before I joined 25+ years ago. Owen wasn’t the first. He’s certainly not the last with a few since then. If his move to the 747 took up much more than 2 minutes at COM then what a complete waste of everyone’s time.
Moving the goal posts back to 2015 as ‘pre Covid’? Clutching at straws a bit aren’t we?
Owen is senior to me. I’m a widebody Captain (in multiple senses) in Sydney. So if Owen wasn’t in a management position then pre COVID he would have been an A330 Captain in Sydney. That’s a long way removed from your alleged 737 ADL command.
Post Covid? Who knows. I suspect there will be a shuffling of deck chairs in Flight Ops given the need to tighten belts. Maybe he’ll get a guernsey in whatever the framework turns out to be, maybe not. If not then post RIN he’ll go where his seniority permits him the same as everyone else. If he does get a guernsey then good on him and he’ll go to where they want him to go.
I don’t know why Owen was offered the 747 tech job. Have you tried asking Mike or Dick? They may tell you. Whether he was a patch on his predecessor I don’t know. Clearly the Chief Pilot wanted him in the role given he had to approve it regardless of whatever influence you think a ‘patron’ may have had. (Good word though, don’t hear it often enough these days. Not sure it’s the right one for this example but I still like the word).
It’s funny that pointing out facts is seen as ‘hero worshipping’.
Many of my compatriots don’t agree with me on many things. That’s rarely worried me in the past. It’s not going to start worrying me now.
Moving the goal posts back to 2015 as ‘pre Covid’? Clutching at straws a bit aren’t we?
Owen is senior to me. I’m a widebody Captain (in multiple senses) in Sydney. So if Owen wasn’t in a management position then pre COVID he would have been an A330 Captain in Sydney. That’s a long way removed from your alleged 737 ADL command.
Post Covid? Who knows. I suspect there will be a shuffling of deck chairs in Flight Ops given the need to tighten belts. Maybe he’ll get a guernsey in whatever the framework turns out to be, maybe not. If not then post RIN he’ll go where his seniority permits him the same as everyone else. If he does get a guernsey then good on him and he’ll go to where they want him to go.
I don’t know why Owen was offered the 747 tech job. Have you tried asking Mike or Dick? They may tell you. Whether he was a patch on his predecessor I don’t know. Clearly the Chief Pilot wanted him in the role given he had to approve it regardless of whatever influence you think a ‘patron’ may have had. (Good word though, don’t hear it often enough these days. Not sure it’s the right one for this example but I still like the word).
It’s funny that pointing out facts is seen as ‘hero worshipping’.
Many of my compatriots don’t agree with me on many things. That’s rarely worried me in the past. It’s not going to start worrying me now.
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Keg , when did your mate get his Managerial guernsey ?
Here’s a hint ,it was pre Covid , way, way , pre Covid .
At the time what was Owen’s seniority and what would have that seniority # given him promotional wise outside of a Managerial appointment ?
What was the seniority of the most Junior 747 Captain at the time of Owen ‘s 747 appointment ?
That was the timeframe reference the ADL 737 Command .
Which EBA was this ?
When did Managerial perogitive get slipped in ?
I am assured that more than 2 minutes was spent by CoM ruminating on this promotion at the time .
You are correct , it will be interesting to see where your mate , sans patron , ends up post Covid reshuffle !
Now / Post Covid , it appears PERTH 787 Command .
Whats the bet that won’t happen !
Surely lightning doesn’t strike twice ?
Where as most of us mere mortals are flat out just worrying about our own relative pole position come post Covid / reduction in numbers !
Good luck on your Widebody Command !
Who knows when you may get to exercise it again , if you ever do !
Due to Post Covid , upcoming GFC/ Worldwide Depression that is going to be secular in its scope !
addendum : my source has clarified the time line of this appointment and is adamant that at the time of the appointment due to the RIN occurring on the 767 our intrepid “ferry expert” would have had the Seniority to achieve a 737 Command in ADL post RIN ,yet ended up on the 747 in Command and the 600 seniority numbers shy of that position was not too far off the mark.
Hope that clarifies why there was/is angst over this appointment.
Also believe the change to the interpretation over Managements prerogative to appoint and to which positions it applied was challenged and opened to all Managerial appointments not just high level Management such as Chief Pilot , Deputy Chief Pilot etc that was the past practice and principle agreement/interpretation prior.
Here’s a hint ,it was pre Covid , way, way , pre Covid .
At the time what was Owen’s seniority and what would have that seniority # given him promotional wise outside of a Managerial appointment ?
What was the seniority of the most Junior 747 Captain at the time of Owen ‘s 747 appointment ?
That was the timeframe reference the ADL 737 Command .
Which EBA was this ?
When did Managerial perogitive get slipped in ?
I am assured that more than 2 minutes was spent by CoM ruminating on this promotion at the time .
You are correct , it will be interesting to see where your mate , sans patron , ends up post Covid reshuffle !
Now / Post Covid , it appears PERTH 787 Command .
Whats the bet that won’t happen !
Surely lightning doesn’t strike twice ?
Where as most of us mere mortals are flat out just worrying about our own relative pole position come post Covid / reduction in numbers !
Good luck on your Widebody Command !
Who knows when you may get to exercise it again , if you ever do !
Due to Post Covid , upcoming GFC/ Worldwide Depression that is going to be secular in its scope !
addendum : my source has clarified the time line of this appointment and is adamant that at the time of the appointment due to the RIN occurring on the 767 our intrepid “ferry expert” would have had the Seniority to achieve a 737 Command in ADL post RIN ,yet ended up on the 747 in Command and the 600 seniority numbers shy of that position was not too far off the mark.
Hope that clarifies why there was/is angst over this appointment.
Also believe the change to the interpretation over Managements prerogative to appoint and to which positions it applied was challenged and opened to all Managerial appointments not just high level Management such as Chief Pilot , Deputy Chief Pilot etc that was the past practice and principle agreement/interpretation prior.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 13th Jul 2020 at 12:19.
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Having sat near Owen for a number of years in QCC, I can tell you he was appointed to the 747 Tech Pilot position on merit. Nothing else. His promotion to Fleet Captain was made by the CP & DCP. Fleet Captain is a thankless job where 99% of the time is spent managing the 1% of "problem" pilots. From what I know Owen has done that admirably.
Nunc est bibendum
Way, way pre COVID, in 2008 in fact, Owen was a Sydney 767 Captain. He became 767 tech pilot a couple of years later- 2010 or 2011, can’t remember which. That’s when he got his management guernsey. In 2014 he was told he was going to the 747.
Post Covid? As a line pilot SYD A330 Captain, BNE A330 Captain, MEL A330 Captain, PER 787 Captain are all realistic options given there are a number of Captains junior to him in those bases. If Qantas wants him in a management role then on the 787 in SYD then that’s where he’ll be- like the 20 other pilots both senior and junior to him who are in SVY roles on the 787 in SYD.
Management prerogative has been going since at least ‘97 (maybe earlier, can’t remember the exact year) when a 737 Captain was transferred to the 767 without the required seniority. He wasn’t even on the LHEA when he was transferred so clearly the EA is irrelevant in those circumstances. Since Owen’s transfer to the 747 in 2014 I can think of six other occasions where people have been transferred fleets and/or bases well outside of their seniority to fulfil a management/ SVY position. There were probably some between ‘97 and 2014 as well but I wasn’t paying attention. In fact the 787 as recently as it’s introduction is a great example where we have trainers appointed to the fleet regardless of seniority. Similarly with the A380 introduction. No doubt that is likely to occur with the A350 introduction also.
So the ‘lack of seniority’ line of argument is pretty meaningless given the ‘management prerogative’ and the ability to base specific SVY crew wherever they like has been well established for at least two decades. That makes your whinge against Owen and where he may end up post 747 retirement either a personal one, or a selective one based on the fleet he went to in 2014. Personal vendetta or selective sour sour grapes? Your call I guess.
Really, some people are holding on way too hard and Captain Weaver is featuring way too large in their mind. His role attracts a degree of angst and bitterness that few other management prerogative positions have attracted. Snide comments such as ‘weasel’ used here and on Qrewroom are childish. I’m was disappointed to see the term on Qrewroom. I held that poster in much higher regard than that.
Then again, as you say, many compatriots may not agree with my position.
Post Covid? As a line pilot SYD A330 Captain, BNE A330 Captain, MEL A330 Captain, PER 787 Captain are all realistic options given there are a number of Captains junior to him in those bases. If Qantas wants him in a management role then on the 787 in SYD then that’s where he’ll be- like the 20 other pilots both senior and junior to him who are in SVY roles on the 787 in SYD.
Management prerogative has been going since at least ‘97 (maybe earlier, can’t remember the exact year) when a 737 Captain was transferred to the 767 without the required seniority. He wasn’t even on the LHEA when he was transferred so clearly the EA is irrelevant in those circumstances. Since Owen’s transfer to the 747 in 2014 I can think of six other occasions where people have been transferred fleets and/or bases well outside of their seniority to fulfil a management/ SVY position. There were probably some between ‘97 and 2014 as well but I wasn’t paying attention. In fact the 787 as recently as it’s introduction is a great example where we have trainers appointed to the fleet regardless of seniority. Similarly with the A380 introduction. No doubt that is likely to occur with the A350 introduction also.
So the ‘lack of seniority’ line of argument is pretty meaningless given the ‘management prerogative’ and the ability to base specific SVY crew wherever they like has been well established for at least two decades. That makes your whinge against Owen and where he may end up post 747 retirement either a personal one, or a selective one based on the fleet he went to in 2014. Personal vendetta or selective sour sour grapes? Your call I guess.
Really, some people are holding on way too hard and Captain Weaver is featuring way too large in their mind. His role attracts a degree of angst and bitterness that few other management prerogative positions have attracted. Snide comments such as ‘weasel’ used here and on Qrewroom are childish. I’m was disappointed to see the term on Qrewroom. I held that poster in much higher regard than that.
Then again, as you say, many compatriots may not agree with my position.
Last edited by Keg; 9th Jul 2020 at 00:13.
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Defending the indefensible? The company has moved management Captains around however they liked since before I joined 25+ years ago. Owen wasn’t the first. He’s certainly not the last with a few since then. If his move to the 747 took up much more than 2 minutes at COM then what a complete waste of everyone’s time.
Apart from OW being way out of seniority, there was concern amongst COM members that he was the trojan horse for other management personnel (ex B767) who were being elevated/returning (MG & GS) would also take B747 slots way out of seniority - MG did but GS went to the B787.
Last edited by Going Boeing; 10th Jul 2020 at 02:51.
