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REX to transition to ATRs, start domestic jet ops

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REX to transition to ATRs, start domestic jet ops

Old 27th May 2021, 00:31
  #1201 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 174
Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
Allegedly, ADL-ML-ADL route was REX best performing that has now potential to be canceled as SA will tighten their border today with VIC, expected case numbers to blow out. Their very poorly performing SY-ML-SY will almost be reduced to ferrying empty A/C after today as NSW will tighten their travel requirements.

Will this accelerate their permanent grounding, or, will JS have money in the bank to pay for a non flying 737 op!
surely as they made the decision to launch an airline during the midst of a pandemic, the 737 shouldn’t and won’t receive a cent of tax payer money to prop it up during these lockdowns..?
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Old 27th May 2021, 00:44
  #1202 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 1,204
Not sure where the doom is coming from, Rex is breaking even this year, a few managed cancellations is not going to affect that much. Flyers don't pay for tickets at the gate so empty airplanes just get cancelled, tickets deferred, money is in the bank, this actually helps operators with low LF as the passengers are then combined onto flights later with more paying passengers for a higher LF. Its not like they are losing $2 billion a year at the moment,or are coming out of insolvency.
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Old 27th May 2021, 00:52
  #1203 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Asia Pacific
Age: 50
Posts: 1,968
Not sure where the doom is coming from, Rex is breaking even this year, a few managed cancellations is not going to affect that much. Flyers don't pay for tickets at the gate so empty airplanes just get cancelled, tickets deferred, money is in the bank, this actually helps operators with low LF as the passengers are then combined onto flights later with more paying passengers for a higher LF. Its not like they are losing $2 billion a year at the moment,or are coming out of insolvency.
Yep, passengers love cancellations; it's such a guaranteed method for long term success I am not sure why QF and VA don't do more of it. Plus, you can just not pay leases, staff, crew, insurance and all the other fixed costs, right?

Rex are bloody champs!
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Old 27th May 2021, 00:56
  #1204 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 1,204
Yep, passengers love cancellations; it's such a guaranteed method for long term success I am not sure why QF and VA don't do more of it. Plus, you can just not pay leases, staff, crew, insurance and all the other fixed costs, right?
I don't think you are following the thread, the cancellations being due to empty airplanes due to passengers not being able to fly due to covid restrictions. Of which i'm pretty sure all companies have a refund or defer policy for tickets affected by such.
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Old 27th May 2021, 01:03
  #1205 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Asia Pacific
Age: 50
Posts: 1,968
Surely John Sharpe can just shout at someone and accuse COVID of predatory behaviour?
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Old 27th May 2021, 01:44
  #1206 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: In the Trees
Posts: 166
How about we just wish them well. Fellow pilots and cabin crew who have had an atrocious 12 months have finally got some sort of stability back in life. It doesn’t matter what name is on the side of an aircraft if it’s giving fellow aviators a job why do we get so uptight about it ?
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Old 27th May 2021, 05:02
  #1207 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 624
Well let’s see if JS lives up to his own hype and gives a no questions ask refund on all request. That was his sale pitch after all. Any flight canceled due covid full refund.
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Old 27th May 2021, 05:41
  #1208 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 353
Originally Posted by SHVC View Post
Well let’s see if JS lives up to his own hype and gives a no questions ask refund on all request. That was his sale pitch after all. Any flight canceled due covid full refund.
With their current loads, REX would make more money by cancelling the flights rather then operating them.
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Old 28th May 2021, 00:37
  #1209 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Here and there....currently here.
Posts: 172
Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Not sure where the doom is coming from, Rex is breaking even this year, a few managed cancellations is not going to affect that much. Flyers don't pay for tickets at the gate so empty airplanes just get cancelled, tickets deferred, money is in the bank, this actually helps operators with low LF as the passengers are then combined onto flights later with more paying passengers for a higher LF. Its not like they are losing $2 billion a year at the moment,or are coming out of insolvency.
Think your missing the fact the due to a cancellation the aircraft and crew could be in the wrong place, so it could still have to be flown somewhere empty to place where it needs to be to maintain the schedule. So crew time, airport fees, any overnight allowances and fuel are potentially still payable.

Secondly, not sure how it works these days with internet direct bookings etc, but the airline never used to receive the money until the sector had been flown and ticket used. I remember the old paper ticket stubs were treated like cash as they were used to claim the money through IATA or booking agent. Does an unused ticket's cash get held in some form of escrow until the sector is flown? Modern technology and booking engines may have negated this though. A passenger may also cancel their booking, so the airline doesn't get (all) the cash at the end of the day either.
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Old 28th May 2021, 01:10
  #1210 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
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Think your missing the fact the due to a cancellation the aircraft and crew could be in the wrong place, so it could still have to be flown somewhere empty to place where it needs to be to maintain the schedule. So crew time, airport fees, any overnight allowances and fuel are potentially still payable.
Pretty sure you are not in the airline industry asking these questions. Domestic crew and aircraft schedules are multiple sectors, a crew and plane wont be stranded from a single or even multiple cancellations, planes, crew, stranded in destinations only happens from breakdowns or other unforeseen occurrence. As far as the financial arrangement you are talking of, that's purely if you book through a travel agent, which during covid was very hit miss if you'd ever see the money again, even if your airline did offer refunds. As far as I know all Australian airlines now offer refund or defer tickets if the flight was affected due to covid, also I think Rex was the first to make a deal out of that, forcing the others to follow.

I had some travel options booked directly with operators that were cancelled and they gave full refunds. I heard of travelers booked with the same operators who were booked through travel agents who struggled to get even part refunds, only offered deferrals etc. Travel agencies often get commissions directly from the operator, so refunds become murky and funds transfer is obviously handled differently.

Last edited by 43Inches; 28th May 2021 at 01:23.
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Old 29th May 2021, 00:52
  #1211 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Here and there....currently here.
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Pretty sure you are not in the airline industry asking these questions.
Yeah....only 30 years plus in the ops side of things, mainly engineering, so I think I've got a decent grip on how things work. If it is not a factor having aircraft misplaced, then why did it take VA 24 hours or so to get things back on track post the Sabre failure last week? By their own advice it was because of aircraft out of place along with their crews. I've dealt with plenty of aircraft out of place due to cancellations and support empty ferry flights, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

However, maybe not be a major factor for Rex due to small B737 network and operation..................seems they'd rather fly the aircraft no matter what the load, even if it is 1 pax travelling SYD-MEL as per Friday's early morning flight. The other pax were no shows more than likely due to the VIC Covid situation. Two SYD-MEL flights cancelled in the afternoon though due to lack of pax, so probably that aircraft/crew was a paired operation.
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Old 29th May 2021, 01:39
  #1212 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 1,204
If it is not a factor having aircraft misplaced, then why did it take VA 24 hours or so to get things back on track post the Sabre failure last week? By their own advice it was because of aircraft out of place along with their crews. I've dealt with plenty of aircraft out of place due to cancellations and support empty ferry flights, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.
Very simple answer to that.

The Sabre failure was a sudden, unexpected fault that prevented departures network wide. Instant chaos, and duty time issues probably run into the equation with restoring operations.

I'd say airlines have major port lock down now as a contingency plan. A single port lock down like Melbourne being knocked out of the system, with forewarning, would be a simple event, where ops would have a plan of action that will avoid what you are saying. Headache for ops for a day or so, no one is going to be stranded etc, a significant weather event would have more effect. A day of operations is a controlled event, so if all planes fly, they wanted that, if they cancelled then that is what they wanted.
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 01:04
  #1213 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: AUS
Posts: 93
From the Australian. Has anyone actually seen this advertisement in the newspaper? If true it's a new low in this war!


Australian domestic airlines are in a huge feuding battle. Rex is fighting for survival and advertising heavily to attract business, but is struggling to sell profitable seats. Dirty advertising tactics have stepped the war to a new level with Qantas angry over Government handouts to Rex resulting in Rex posting a profit.

News article follows "The bitter feud between Qantas and Rex has stepped up a notch after Rex took out full page advertisements highlighting public discontent with the Flying Kangaroo over refunds.

The ad uses dozens of social media posts made about Qantas to emphasise problems with the refund process during the Covid crisis which has resulted in thousands of flight cancellations.

Rex deputy chairman John Sharp said in contrast, they had refunded every passenger who had requested their money back for an eligible fare bought before April 1,2021.

The ad suggested Qantas could owe as much $1bn to passengers caught up in Covid-related flight cancellations.

Throughout the pandemic, Qantas has strived to manage a huge number of travellers disrupted by border closures and lockdowns, by offering refunds, rebookings or travel credits.

On its website, Qantas points out that refunds could take up to eight weeks to process, and may be conditional on the sort of fare purchased.

The advertisements are expected to stir up more animosity between the carriers, which have clashed over regional routes and government grants.

Rex has previously accused Qantas of deliberately adding capacity to regional routes in an effort to squeeze out the smaller carrier as “payback” for Rex’s decision to compete on capital city routes.

Since the start of the pandemic Qantas has added more than 40 new routes, including several that were operated solely by Rex.

In response Rex threatened to pull off a number of routes, many of which were not the subject of competition from Qantas.

To date Rex has not come good on its threats.

Government grants given to Qantas and Rex throughout the pandemic have also been fodder for the fight.

Qantas claimed the considerable financial assistance given to Rex was disproportionate to the airline’s size.

Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce said if Qantas had received the same level of assistance as Rex, they would have got over $7 billion.

Mr Joyce’s suggestion that there was only room for two airline groups on major domestic routes in Australia also inflamed Rex management.

The fight then took a bizarre turn when Mr Sharp accused Qantas and Virgin Australia of colluding to try to sink Rex.

In their recent half year results, Qantas posted a $1.09 billion statutory loss, compared to Rex’s $9.9 million profit for the six months to December 2020.

As well as Sydney-Melbourne, Rex has added Melbourne-Gold Coast and Sydney-Canberra to its network using former Virgin Australia 737s.

Qantas has been contacted for comment on the advertisements.
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 01:27
  #1214 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,082
Here’s an idea Rex. Worry about your own backyard.

The public don’t give two shits about any of this. Every time it’s competition make a business decision in regards to its operation, are we going to hear Rex’s opinion every single time?



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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 02:30
  #1215 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by TimmyTee View Post
surely as they made the decision to launch an airline during the midst of a pandemic, the 737 shouldn’t and won’t receive a cent of tax payer money to prop it up during these lockdowns..?
Especially since they carried on for months making threats to the government to get a package that none of the other operators got (favors for political mates perhaps....) and then accuse QF of being technically insolvent after taking their 'rescue package' pushed by the NP and spending it on a new operation instead.
If I was the government, the day they announced it I would have said "Hand the money back".
The unbridled arrogance and scatter-gun rubbish that comes out of their Chairperson's mouth is become old very fast
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 03:15
  #1216 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 219
You know, an airfare war with advertised competing prices is just part of the game but selectively drawing on adverse social media posts and putting them in print is anticompetitive and an attempt to damage a brand IMHO. I think JS may have overstepped again and will most likely find himself in a legal battle again.
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 04:31
  #1217 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 319
It seems JS’s strategy to build brand awareness is by trying to trash the reputation of the incumbents. It’s the easiest way he can get/buy media coverage. JS seems a relic of bygone times who has somehow avoided extinction.
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 04:47
  #1218 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 624
This is disgusting. JS should be in hot water over this. Hopefully AJ takes JS to task over this.
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 05:01
  #1219 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 518
I don't think that this is an effective way to attract passengers. REX should be selling their attributes.
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 06:18
  #1220 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Hotel Quarantine
Posts: 36
This is what happens when you get the work experience kid trying to run the marketing department.

Rex have missed the point entirely and just don’t get that by personally attacking your competitors you’ll get little sympathy.

Sure, there may be some convoluted strategy to drum up brand awareness by constantly attacking the opposition, but it’s not going to bode well for them in the long run.

Trying to digest that wall of text made my head hurt, the target audience Rex are trying for aren’t going to be captured by that (and what’s funny is that under the link to this advertisement on their own Facebook site, Rex customers themselves are querying where their refunds are and why they’re on hold for hours waiting for a response. Although it seems they are deleting a lot of those comments as they appear!)

And for everyone else it doesn’t take much digging to realise that Rex themselves are not only a foreign owned company but have a history of bullying and intimidating their staff and regional Australian communities along with a breathless arrogance over how great they think they are by making money off monopoly routes to piss pot towns and then spitting the dummy when they get competition.

Not to mention the massive and skewed government handouts they manipulated to kick start an expansion into jets.

This whole thing reeks of desperation by a rudderless and sinking ship. No doubt accelerated by the latest lockdown in Melbourne and the realisation that travel will be constrained for a long time yet, whoever thought it a good idea launching a new airline in the midst of the worst aviation crisis in history must be regretting the decision.
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