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The true number of displaced (redundant) pilots

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The true number of displaced (redundant) pilots

Old 28th Jun 2020, 16:12
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Compylot View Post
I think you'll find that Airline pilots aren't particularly sought after for GA gigs even if they might of done it in a past life.
The statement above is true, at least at my outfit anyway.

I am involved in a minimal capacity in the recruitment process of a GA operator flying light multi engine piston and turbo-prop aircrafts. We have around 40 pilots and non is an ex airline pilot; and that is not for lack of candidates. We have 1 ex biz jet pilot and the rest are ex RAF or GA pilots.

The are two main reasons for that:
-it’s much harder to train airline pilots than it is to train ex RAF or GA pilots to fly our aircrafts in our environment
-Attitude; obviously the working environment for a GA operator is different than the environment of an airline and many ex airline pilots find it difficult or unwilling to adapt to the new environment.

We were actively recruiting when Flybe went bust and we received many applications from their former pilots. Some of them made it to the interview stage and out of all those invited only one got a job offer. They all struggled with the last part of the interview which is a flight in a multi engine piston aircraft.

We are not automatically rejecting all the airline pilots applications but it is considered a disadvantage.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:30
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Oztralia
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Skipname View Post
They all struggled with the last part of the interview which is a flight in a multi engine piston aircraft.
Was that a Heavy or Light piston twin?
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:55
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Skipname View Post
The statement above is true, at least at my outfit anyway.

I am involved in a minimal capacity in the recruitment process of a GA operator flying light multi engine piston and turbo-prop aircrafts. We have around 40 pilots and non is an ex airline pilot; and that is not for lack of candidates. We have 1 ex biz jet pilot and the rest are ex RAF or GA pilots.

The are two main reasons for that:
-it’s much harder to train airline pilots than it is to train ex RAF or GA pilots to fly our aircrafts in our environment
-Attitude; obviously the working environment for a GA operator is different than the environment of an airline and many ex airline pilots find it difficult or unwilling to adapt to the new environment.

We were actively recruiting when Flybe went bust and we received many applications from their former pilots. Some of them made it to the interview stage and out of all those invited only one got a job offer. They all struggled with the last part of the interview which is a flight in a multi engine piston aircraft.

We are not automatically rejecting all the airline pilots applications but it is considered a disadvantage.
Lmao a European here to lecture Aussies about GA.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 21:36
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 135
Ahhhhh that old chestnut. GA vs Airlines and Airlines vs GA.

Never gets old.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 23:13
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 37
Obviously trolling,
but I’ve thought about it and I’d take the 400kts slower progress to allow my brain some time to figure it all out...
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 00:25
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Straya
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by Overspeed1 View Post
When I started training in 2006 all people could tell me was what a great time I was starting my career, jobs a plenty etc. then in 2007 the gfc hit and everything turned to shite...

Plenty of people quit training but those of us willing to listen to the advice of the old boys got told to stick with it and the industry will sort itself out. They were right.

If someone who just started training asked me what to do I’d give them the above advice because unless you’ve got 90k sitting in the bank it’s gona be couple of years before you get that CPL anyway and in a few years there will be jobs a plenty again, especially in the entry level stuff that most of the guys getting shafted during the current downturn won’t be willing to take.
The best time to get into aviation is during a crisis if you look back through history. It’s like buying the dip during a share market crash.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 01:28
  #67 (permalink)  
-41
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: a
Posts: 127
does GA still exist ?

ohh to be paid again by the hour Air switch
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 02:06
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 850
This is the mother of all dips. 89 was probably the last time there was this many spare pilots in Australia and that was a local thing, not worldwide.
ozbiggles is online now  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 09:21
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,923
As a 31year (UK) pilot I now have more ex than employed pilots in my immediate circle. Over 1100 from BA. 102 last week from Jet2, 30%ish from easy and VS, all hopefully subject to mitigations currently being negotiated. Very relevant thread, pity it’s been sidetracked by a couple of chip-on-shoulder GA types. You have an entire GA section to fill your boots
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 11:17
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: SE QLD
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by Skipname View Post
They all struggled with the last part of the interview which is a flight in a multi engine piston aircraft.
Probably because in EASA land most of the applicants had never flown anything but what the flight school had, and then ended up RHS in an A320 etc with a couple of hundred hours total time.

Going from that back to a GA twin would be very difficult if they had no previous GA experience to fall back on.

Things are a little different down here in Oz.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 22:47
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: over the hill
Posts: 179
You get one supportive post from someone in the UK and it’s Bash a Pom day! Sure, we all did 200 hours in a hedge hopper then walked into a jet. Right....what do you know about it....’Mate’.....Sad.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 00:06
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Someplace else
Age: 37
Posts: 1,359
fred,

Quite sure I saw the word most the Optimists post. Most, not all. Are you saying that isn’t the case in Europe?

Not sure I can see where anyone was ‘bashed’ either. Anyone who had a different opinion mentioned Europe or EASA, not the UK. Trying to make it sound like this is ‘Pom bashing’ makes you look silly.

All things aside, I think the situation may be looking up. I hear there may be some pretty good contacts coming up in Pakistan. They have a pilot shortage over there apparently?

j3
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 01:14
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 683
[QUOTE=j3pipercub;10824841]fred,


All things aside, I think the situation may be looking up. I hear there may be some pretty good contacts coming up in Pakistan. They have a pilot shortage over there apparently?
j3[/QUOTE

Yeah, nah - plenty of pilots, lack of (credible?) paperwork at times.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 09:10
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: over the hill
Posts: 179
“Probably because in EASA land most of the applicants had never flown anything but what the flight school had, and then ended up RHS in an A320 etc with a couple of hundred hours total time.”

I disagree with this sweeping assertion based on twenty eight years in professional aviation here in Europe. The copilots I flew with came from a multitude of backgrounds: ex military, ex GA, ex regional, ex low cost. There were quite a few who had been to an ‘airline academy’ but not the majority I would say.

Call me all the names you like J3, but the person who wrote the opinion that your ‘Optimistic’ (sic) correspondent dismissed out of hand (‘bashed’) identified as being a Brit, hence my comment. I also disagree with ‘Optmist’s’ assertion that ‘things are different in Australia’. You have your own schools (FTA Adelaide to name but one) turning out trainees of the 200 hour variety and I’m sure not all of them only went into GA.

I’d add that many of the co-pilots I flew with who had come out of schools like that were highly talented pilots in their own right and I’ve no doubt that they’d adapt right back into a GA environment very well. I therefore strongly disagree with the dismissive tone of ‘Optimists’ post in that score too.

Finally, all of my nieces have emigrated to Australia, a wonderful country full of outgoing, hospitable, friendly people. It’s always a pleasure to visit them. They and their families love it there and I can see why.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 09:50
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 39
Military vs civil, charter vs instructing, GA vs airlines..... The comparisons and arguments have gone around for decades, and everyone has an opinion.

It seems like an academic argument at the moment though - do people really think that either:
1. There are hundreds of GA positions vacant, or
2. Those pilots with GA positions are about to voluntarily leave en-masse, or
3. GA employers are about to give their existing employees the boot to free up spaces for others, whatever experience they may bring, or
4. There is a huge expansion of GA just around the corner.....

The reality is that this has affected almost all sectors of the industry to some extent.
Look Mum - no hands is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2020, 10:16
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 760
Originally Posted by Look Mum - no hands View Post

It seems like an academic argument at the moment though - do people really think that either:
1. There are hundreds of GA positions vacant, or
2. Those pilots with GA positions are about to voluntarily leave en-masse, or
3. GA employers are about to give their existing employees the boot to free up spaces for others, whatever experience they may bring, or
4. There is a huge expansion of GA just around the corner.....

The reality is that this has affected almost all sectors of the industry to some extent.
A quick browse of AFAP Latest Jobs shows a couple of heli jobs, a handful of instructing jobs, a few Chief Pilot jobs and maybe or two entry level GA jobs. Apart from that it’s sparse. A lot of entry level GA work is tourism, so that will suffer in the short term. Instructing jobs will suffer due to prospective career students being put off by a downturn in the industry and and private students from a recession. The one saving grace could be instructing of foreign students. Especially with the predicted growth in Asia in the future Asian airlines will probably assess they’ll need to more pilots in 18 months time after the pandemic so time to train them now, and if we were smart in this country we’d encourage as much foreign training as possible.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 03:54
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 70
Posts: 872
I believe any talk / hope of a recovery from the Covid induced global economic hibernation particularly with reference to Aviation is at best optimistic if not downright naive!
If the following snippet from an economic article I was reading is any indication of the current state of affairs then to use a famous Australian vernacular:
“We’ll all be Rooned ,said Hanrahan before the year is out “

“: Over 80% of the world’s nations were in recession at the same time during the Great Depression in the early 1930s. The figure reached 60% right after the Second World War, as war industries demobilised, but domestic consumption had not yet ramped up. The 2008 global financial crisis put just over 60% of the world’s nations in recession at once.

Today the figure is 92%, the highest reading ever. That’s worse than both world wars, the Great Depression, and the 2008 crisis. And, that’s 92% of a much larger global economy that existed in the prior episodes.

Not only is this horrific in terms of absolute damage, it means there is no strong economic bloc to pull the world out of recession. There is no source of demand to help producing countries get off the mat.

This is one more reason why the current state of affairs is not just a technical recession; it’s a world historic depression that will persist for years to come.“
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 11:23
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The No Transgression Zone
Posts: 2,209
Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
The aeroplane I fly when on vacation has twin radial engines, is a taildragger, and has 1950’s instruments and no autopilot. Its a piece of cake compared to my actual airline job. Clearly some people assume that a modern jet cockpit has Laz-e-boy seats and a snooze button.
Beechcraft E18?
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