QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Each entity is treated seperately. No reason at all one can't hire while another has crew on stand down.
What is more likely to happen is what just happened with the 717 crew. Internal EOI posted for 717 F/O positions on 18 month contract. Needed to have a 717 type rating so it looks like they were actively trying to use their own staff first. There's also the benefit of reduced training needed to get them online.
What is more likely to happen is what just happened with the 717 crew. Internal EOI posted for 717 F/O positions on 18 month contract. Needed to have a 717 type rating so it looks like they were actively trying to use their own staff first. There's also the benefit of reduced training needed to get them online.
QF just closed 2 NJS bases didn’t they? That must be around 30% of their pilots. I’d expect some wouldn’t relocate (maybe 10-15%) so I assume that’s why that ad has appeared.
If they don’t get the required numbers it’s going to be hard watching them recruit externally rather then train guys that already work for the group who are looking at lengthy standown.
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The flying network won’t be the same size post COVID. That’s why the 190 pilots were identified as a long term surplus.
whilst I’m sure it is possibly good news if your a Long Haul CPT like keg(and a stood up one), for most SO and FO or a long term stood down CPT its not rosy at all.
The majority of pilots are stood down. It’s all very inaccurate, based on what if’s and with no certain date it doesn’t comfort the bank manager, landlord or wife-husband nor put food on the table. Maybe getting a month or two of work simply doesn’t cut it. Living a life in ISO as an SO does not either. Getting told from some 20 year old in HR who has no ISO requirements on F11 even less so. A maybe promotion sometime in the future whilst your unpaid is imagination only.
I’ve heard some good news that many are starting to get other jobs in banking and in big and small business.
Starting Money sounds good with huge potential in the future, and work life balance far superior to Qantas. Every night at home with the kids. Some work from home days and every Christmas and Easter off. More importantly they feel valued and welcomed and are told of opportunities for growth and improved pay. Can always move to other Companies where pay isn’t less. So different from Qantas who don’t appreciate their staff, hate their pilots and are constantly trying to undermine their growth and pay conditions or threaten their jobs to make them take LWOP out of fear.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rk-London.html
Unless you want a lifetime of abuse, threats and job insecurity you would be an idiot to choose a job as an airline pilot. Shows how sh$& the environment is that the best it can get is people taking wild guesses on hypothetical promotions only because people got forced to take redundancies from a sinking ship.
Start a business. Study something other than flying. Get a plan B. Get a long term alternate.
whilst I’m sure it is possibly good news if your a Long Haul CPT like keg(and a stood up one), for most SO and FO or a long term stood down CPT its not rosy at all.
The majority of pilots are stood down. It’s all very inaccurate, based on what if’s and with no certain date it doesn’t comfort the bank manager, landlord or wife-husband nor put food on the table. Maybe getting a month or two of work simply doesn’t cut it. Living a life in ISO as an SO does not either. Getting told from some 20 year old in HR who has no ISO requirements on F11 even less so. A maybe promotion sometime in the future whilst your unpaid is imagination only.
I’ve heard some good news that many are starting to get other jobs in banking and in big and small business.
Starting Money sounds good with huge potential in the future, and work life balance far superior to Qantas. Every night at home with the kids. Some work from home days and every Christmas and Easter off. More importantly they feel valued and welcomed and are told of opportunities for growth and improved pay. Can always move to other Companies where pay isn’t less. So different from Qantas who don’t appreciate their staff, hate their pilots and are constantly trying to undermine their growth and pay conditions or threaten their jobs to make them take LWOP out of fear.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rk-London.html
Unless you want a lifetime of abuse, threats and job insecurity you would be an idiot to choose a job as an airline pilot. Shows how sh$& the environment is that the best it can get is people taking wild guesses on hypothetical promotions only because people got forced to take redundancies from a sinking ship.
Start a business. Study something other than flying. Get a plan B. Get a long term alternate.
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The only thing I miss about flying for Qantas is the fortnightly pay. It really was good money.
I thought I would miss the flying which on reflection I did at the start. But as the months have passed and having found secure full time employment in another industry I no longer miss it. The jet lag, the back of the clock sectors, the sims, EPs, security, the hotels etc etc.
After so many ups and downs in aviation over the last 25 years I really have had enough. Alan and his team will make hay while the sun shines and that means even if flying returns there will be more insecurity and more racing to the bottom. Enough is enough. For those in LH stood down with no clear path my advice is move on, find another job and leave Qf behind. If they call in the future then great but move forward expecting them to not call. It’s really the only way to handle this.
I thought I would miss the flying which on reflection I did at the start. But as the months have passed and having found secure full time employment in another industry I no longer miss it. The jet lag, the back of the clock sectors, the sims, EPs, security, the hotels etc etc.
After so many ups and downs in aviation over the last 25 years I really have had enough. Alan and his team will make hay while the sun shines and that means even if flying returns there will be more insecurity and more racing to the bottom. Enough is enough. For those in LH stood down with no clear path my advice is move on, find another job and leave Qf behind. If they call in the future then great but move forward expecting them to not call. It’s really the only way to handle this.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0184; 4th Dec 2020 at 21:24.
The only thing I miss about flying for Qantas is the fortnightly pay. It really was good money.
I thought I would miss the flying which on reflection I did at the start. But as the months have passed and having found secure full time employment in another industry I no longer miss it. The jet lag, the back of the clock sectors, the sims, EPs, security, the hotels etc etc.
After so many ups and downs in aviation over the last 25 years I really have had a enough. Alan and his team will make hay while the sun shines and that means even if flying returns there will be more insecurity and more racing to the bottom. Enough it’s enough. For those in LH stood down with no clear path my advice is move on, find another job and leave Qf behind. If they call in the future then great but move forward expecting them to not call. It’s really the only way to handle this.
I thought I would miss the flying which on reflection I did at the start. But as the months have passed and having found secure full time employment in another industry I no longer miss it. The jet lag, the back of the clock sectors, the sims, EPs, security, the hotels etc etc.
After so many ups and downs in aviation over the last 25 years I really have had a enough. Alan and his team will make hay while the sun shines and that means even if flying returns there will be more insecurity and more racing to the bottom. Enough it’s enough. For those in LH stood down with no clear path my advice is move on, find another job and leave Qf behind. If they call in the future then great but move forward expecting them to not call. It’s really the only way to handle this.
I think for many this has caused a reassessment of what is important in life. Is the cash and love of flying enough to offset the jet lag, time away from family etc?
Im sure some industrial types over at QF (and probably other airlines) will be assuming that pilots will now be scared of losing their jobs for good and this will make them more tame industrially.
I believe the opposite is probably true: this period has demonstrated that if the worst happens and the flying job goes away, we’ll still survive, and there may in fact be benefits to a career outside of flying.
The only thing I miss about flying for Qantas is the fortnightly pay. It really was good money.
I thought I would miss the flying which on reflection I did at the start. But as the months have passed and having found secure full time employment in another industry I no longer miss it. The jet lag, the back of the clock sectors, the sims, EPs, security, the hotels etc etc.
After so many ups and downs in aviation over the last 25 years I really have had a enough. Alan and his team will make hay while the sun shines and that means even if flying returns there will be more insecurity and more racing to the bottom. Enough it’s enough. For those in LH stood down with no clear path my advice is move on, find another job and leave Qf behind. If they call in the future then great but move forward expecting them to not call. It’s really the only way to handle this.
I thought I would miss the flying which on reflection I did at the start. But as the months have passed and having found secure full time employment in another industry I no longer miss it. The jet lag, the back of the clock sectors, the sims, EPs, security, the hotels etc etc.
After so many ups and downs in aviation over the last 25 years I really have had a enough. Alan and his team will make hay while the sun shines and that means even if flying returns there will be more insecurity and more racing to the bottom. Enough it’s enough. For those in LH stood down with no clear path my advice is move on, find another job and leave Qf behind. If they call in the future then great but move forward expecting them to not call. It’s really the only way to handle this.
Edit** As far as pilots being industrially softened up by COVID...they’re not. Almost everyone I speak to is busting for a fight, well rested and refreshed, we are in a better position to stop the rot than we’ve ever been. And there are plenty of jobs out there that can use our unique skill set.
Yeah, nah.
I don’t miss being tired, but I miss my Qantas “family”. I used to enjoy catching up with the crew.
Oh, and the money - I miss that too...
Now I have to buy my maple syrup in Australia like some sort of animal
I don’t miss being tired, but I miss my Qantas “family”. I used to enjoy catching up with the crew.
Oh, and the money - I miss that too...
Now I have to buy my maple syrup in Australia like some sort of animal
Last edited by ruprecht; 4th Dec 2020 at 21:54.
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I agree with this. Yeah the money was good but the last 8 months or so of stand down has shown me that there’s more to life than flying.
I think for many this has caused a reassessment of what is important in life. Is the cash and love of flying enough to offset the jet lag, time away from family etc?
Im sure some industrial types over at QF (and probably other airlines) will be assuming that pilots will now be scared of losing their jobs for good and this will make them more tame industrially.
I believe the opposite is probably true: this period has demonstrated that if the worst happens and the flying job goes away, we’ll still survive, and there may in fact be benefits to a career outside of flying.
I think for many this has caused a reassessment of what is important in life. Is the cash and love of flying enough to offset the jet lag, time away from family etc?
Im sure some industrial types over at QF (and probably other airlines) will be assuming that pilots will now be scared of losing their jobs for good and this will make them more tame industrially.
I believe the opposite is probably true: this period has demonstrated that if the worst happens and the flying job goes away, we’ll still survive, and there may in fact be benefits to a career outside of flying.
The wife or partner is happier with them home. The kids are happier too. They will have Christmas and Easter at home. Birthdays and special events. Can tell friends and mates with confidence they can come to that event or wedding.
The pay used to be good but it is constantly getting worse. No one will be getting the hours they used to.
Nothing but RINs, demotions and other entities taking flying to look forward to. Constantly being attacked. Not worth wasting effort and energy on sinking ships. Majority of pilots are capable and trustworthy people.
Other businesses see the value and are appreciative of the skills and experience. Not being despised and ridiculed in the media has a value. Losing sleep flying all night, jetlag,lingering fatigue and instability and days or weeks away from family and friends has a price.
Covid Is a great opportunity to move on and secure a better and more stable future. No stand downs, RINs, demotions, pay cuts, longer hours, worse rosters, days away, sims put on days off! EBAs getting worse and worse.
Divert the company emails to another folder. Tune out of the webinars. Focus on what serves you and will help you and your family’s future. It’s not flying. If your stood down then let it go mentally. This came from a Qantas appointed psychologist. Maybe If it comes back then consider options then. May be many years away.
Get into a position that when Alan threatens pilots again or belittles them in the media that you don’t need to care. It might take some time but I know lots of people slowly building a way they can walk away from flying or only come back at half rosters at most.
For the SOs and FOs I think this is really important. Something like Covid will happen again or worse and you need to be prepared.
Good saying that someone is only sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago. Time to plant trees away from flying.
Last edited by knobbycobby; 4th Dec 2020 at 23:39. Reason: Spelling
I agree. What I keep hearing from crew who are on long term unpaid stand down from Qantas. Many of those have given up on Qantas and wisely moved on and thrown themselves into something new. Found a new challenge where they are appreciated. Some are even studying interesting areas like medicine, law or finance or getting a trade or starting a business. I even heard one SO who’s started a business and was on the evening radio on 2GB interviewed about his new venture.
The wife or partner is happier with them home. The kids are happier too. They will have Christmas and Easter at home. Birthdays and special events. Can tell friends and mates with confidence they can come to that event or wedding.
The pay used to be good but it is constantly getting worse. No one will be getting the hours they used to.
Nothing but RINs, demotions and other entities taking flying to look forward to. Constantly being attacked. Not worth wasting effort and energy on sinking ships. Majority of pilots are capable and trustworthy people.
Other businesses see the value and are appreciative of the skills and experience. Not being despised and ridiculed in the media has a value. Losing sleep flying all night, jetlag,lingering fatigue and instability and days or weeks away from family and friends has a price.
Covid Is a great opportunity to move on and secure a better and more stable future. No stand downs, RINs, demotions, pay cuts, longer hours, worse rosters, days away, sims put on days off! EBAs getting worse and worse.
Divert the company emails to another folder. Tune out of the webinars. Focus on what serves you and will help you and your family’s future. It’s not flying. If your stood down then let it go mentally. This came from a Qantas appointed psychologist. Maybe If it comes back then consider options then. May be many years away.
Get into a position that when Alan threatens pilots again or belittles them in the media that you don’t need to care. It might take some time but I know lots of people slowly building a way they can walk away from flying or only come back at half rosters at most.
For the SOs and FOs I think this is really important. Something like Covid will happen again or worse and you need to be prepared.
Good saying that someone is only sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago. Time to plant trees away from flying.
The wife or partner is happier with them home. The kids are happier too. They will have Christmas and Easter at home. Birthdays and special events. Can tell friends and mates with confidence they can come to that event or wedding.
The pay used to be good but it is constantly getting worse. No one will be getting the hours they used to.
Nothing but RINs, demotions and other entities taking flying to look forward to. Constantly being attacked. Not worth wasting effort and energy on sinking ships. Majority of pilots are capable and trustworthy people.
Other businesses see the value and are appreciative of the skills and experience. Not being despised and ridiculed in the media has a value. Losing sleep flying all night, jetlag,lingering fatigue and instability and days or weeks away from family and friends has a price.
Covid Is a great opportunity to move on and secure a better and more stable future. No stand downs, RINs, demotions, pay cuts, longer hours, worse rosters, days away, sims put on days off! EBAs getting worse and worse.
Divert the company emails to another folder. Tune out of the webinars. Focus on what serves you and will help you and your family’s future. It’s not flying. If your stood down then let it go mentally. This came from a Qantas appointed psychologist. Maybe If it comes back then consider options then. May be many years away.
Get into a position that when Alan threatens pilots again or belittles them in the media that you don’t need to care. It might take some time but I know lots of people slowly building a way they can walk away from flying or only come back at half rosters at most.
For the SOs and FOs I think this is really important. Something like Covid will happen again or worse and you need to be prepared.
Good saying that someone is only sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago. Time to plant trees away from flying.
Aviation conditions your mindset. It’s hard to walk away. I’d rather be a frog and well and truly cooked before I retire, than never having had the experience.
Frogs for life.
Flying is a social club. From the local flying school to a company like QF, it’s no different. It’s good to have a laugh both on and off the aircraft. Gee, I have learnt a lot from others.
We all love flying. It’s not work. If I thought of it as work I never would have made first solo.
The issue is when passing management like to stick their nose in our business. They’re not Qantas, you are!
Good luck to all those moving on. It was an absolute pleasure!
We all love flying. It’s not work. If I thought of it as work I never would have made first solo.
The issue is when passing management like to stick their nose in our business. They’re not Qantas, you are!
Good luck to all those moving on. It was an absolute pleasure!
Work colleagues are great and it is nice to have a beer. That doesn’t exist in flying alone.
But the majority of pilots are stood down without pay and won’t have either work, nor pay for years.
Pleased that long serving Captains with great careers got paid out a large tax reduced package. Some great people have left sadly. But they left with money and a good career.
But Reminiscing over a job that no longer exists or won’t for years, won’t pay the bills or feed the family for those stood down. Most SO and FO don’t have this luxury.
For those not wanting to starve or lose their houses it is alternate planning time.
But the majority of pilots are stood down without pay and won’t have either work, nor pay for years.
Pleased that long serving Captains with great careers got paid out a large tax reduced package. Some great people have left sadly. But they left with money and a good career.
But Reminiscing over a job that no longer exists or won’t for years, won’t pay the bills or feed the family for those stood down. Most SO and FO don’t have this luxury.
For those not wanting to starve or lose their houses it is alternate planning time.
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Some wise words in these last few posts. I have nothing to do with the QF group but have just seen first hand what airline management think of the pilot body in my airline, handing us a rather large and permanent salary cut.
It’s hard to see much of a future left in aviation when our T&Cs are constantly under attack.
It’s hard to see much of a future left in aviation when our T&Cs are constantly under attack.
There'll probably be a reduction in pay in the future but c'mon it's coming from a very high starting point. Up until now the pay has constantly been increasing, when I started most LH Captains were earning salaries starting with 3, by 2019 it seems most had a 4 at the start. I doubt whether any pilot in mainline had their pay cut over the last decade (up until this year of course but that wasn't as a result of a new contract). In fact I heard stories of RIN'd 767 FOs who got a pay rise to go to 380 SO.
On the flipside to most comments here from what I've heard from those now working in other industries most have received quite a rude awakening into what life outside of mainline is really like, and will be very grateful of the mainline job and life once they return.
Will there be temptations of other industries like law, finance, business etc where more pay can be made eventually? Yes, and I believe some will take up that offer and give flying away. But I reckon the vast majority will eventually return to flying. 95%+. It'll take time in other industries to get to the kind of money the mainline pilot was previously on, and by that stage they'll have had the opportunity to to return to work. Yes, you'll miss some holidays and birthdays, but overall you'll have more time off at home. Not many M-F professionals can pick up their kids from school. You'll definitely be able to have more choice in place of living, rather than a commute to the CBD 5 times per week. Won't get attacked in the media? Also won't be made redundant at a moment's notice like a lot of corporate staff are.
Plus as much as everyone says they don't like it, they just can't seem to get away from "the life"
On the flipside to most comments here from what I've heard from those now working in other industries most have received quite a rude awakening into what life outside of mainline is really like, and will be very grateful of the mainline job and life once they return.
Will there be temptations of other industries like law, finance, business etc where more pay can be made eventually? Yes, and I believe some will take up that offer and give flying away. But I reckon the vast majority will eventually return to flying. 95%+. It'll take time in other industries to get to the kind of money the mainline pilot was previously on, and by that stage they'll have had the opportunity to to return to work. Yes, you'll miss some holidays and birthdays, but overall you'll have more time off at home. Not many M-F professionals can pick up their kids from school. You'll definitely be able to have more choice in place of living, rather than a commute to the CBD 5 times per week. Won't get attacked in the media? Also won't be made redundant at a moment's notice like a lot of corporate staff are.
Plus as much as everyone says they don't like it, they just can't seem to get away from "the life"
Nunc est bibendum
Why? The company agreed in March that the rate per hour that we fly is appropriate- heck, they were the ones that set the rate, allowed virtually no room for negotiation, and insisted we needed to sign off on it quickly. The only way there should be a ‘pay reduction’ is if we physically fly less hours.
In 2019 an A330 Captain working a 180 divisor every BP earns about $352K. Depending on the route structure flown that was 850+ hours. There wouldn’t have been an A330 line Captain with a pay starting with a 4 unless they’d worked multiple BLs and were assigned well over +5 on more than one of them.
The doom and bloody gloom is so tiring...