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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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Old 28th Sep 2020, 04:14
  #1921 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Section28- BE
ABC News: Qantas eight weeks away from running out of money at height of COVID-19
Of course the key words being left out there - if the company didn’t do anything. Standing down workers prevented that.

So what is the entire point of the ALAEA’s court action? Do they want the company to stand up all their members when there’s no work for them so the company will go bankrupt 2 months later?
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 18:15
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ABC is having a low news day. There is nothing of interest in either of those “news” articles.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 19:05
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I found the one about using stand-down periods to bypass Transfer of Business provisions quite interesting.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 20:31
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[QUOTE]As I said some time ago, the bankers are worried about Qantas survival without a bail out.[/QUOTE]

As I said on 22 August and before that. Now Qantas itself confirms what I was told.
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Old 28th Sep 2020, 20:33
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Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere
I found the one about using stand-down periods to bypass Transfer of Business provisions quite interesting.
Oh, was it?

Sorry. I gave up once I realised I was half way through the article and they were still going on with puppy dog stories about Nick and Elif.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 02:54
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[QUOTE=Sunfish;10894425]
As I said some time ago, the bankers are worried about Qantas survival without a bail out.[/QUOTE]

As I said on 22 August and before that. Now Qantas itself confirms what I was told.
The problem with open websites it that they allow rather unpleasant individuals who have no dog in the fight except for a teeth-grinding resentment and sense of grievance to express an essentially meaningless opinion that contributes nothing except for a sense of the loathing of the poster.
The question is why do they take such vicarious pleasure in other people’s misfortune ?
Nobody wants your opinion.
Go away.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 03:07
  #1927 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
So what is the entire point of the ALAEA’s court action? Do they want the company to stand up all their members when there’s no work for them so the company will go bankrupt 2 months later?
Maybe to stand up and pay those that should be, and right size the operation - ie paying redundancy - not just having people sit around on no pay until it suits the company? Don’t know - just thinking out loud...
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 03:16
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That's what I would do, have ppl sit around throw them a roster every 4-5 months get them to resign as opposed to using CR. Eventually stood down pilots will have to earn money.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 03:35
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The argument is that there was work to be carried out (deferred defects, a checks, c checks, storage checks etc), Qantas just chose to not do the work. The precedent set in the past court cases is that a company can't just choose to stand down full time employees when business is slow even if the work isn't considered urgent. If there is work available, you can't stand people down. The ALAEA is arguing that there was work to do from what I understand.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 04:48
  #1930 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 600ft-lb
The argument is that there was work to be carried out (deferred defects, a checks, c checks, storage checks etc), Qantas just chose to not do the work. The precedent set in the past court cases is that a company can't just choose to stand down full time employees when business is slow even if the work isn't considered urgent. If there is work available, you can't stand people down. The ALAEA is arguing that there was work to do from what I understand.
Was it essential work though? If certain aircraft are not going to be flying for a while then those checks don’t need to be completed until close to when the aircraft are ready to return. Or maybe not. Perhaps because of the nature of tasks to be performed the ruling may only apply to engineering, which is maybe why other unions don’t seem to have joined the court action.

Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist
Maybe to stand up and pay those that should be, and right size the operation - ie paying redundancy - not just having people sit around on no pay until it suits the company? Don’t know - just thinking out loud...
I think the right sizing (as far as pilots are concerned at least) is mid 2022-2023 as stated in the recovery plan. That’s what all the VR was about. As explained in the previous post there maybe is a case for some engineers to be stood up in the interim to perform certain engineering checks, although pilots won’t need to be stood up until the recency training is needed, a month or two out from when the aircraft is bought back to service.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 05:04
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Yes it is essential work. The Aircraft in storage require various checks.

The storage checks required depending on type are 3, 4, 7, 10, 14, 30, 60, 90 and 180 Day checks. Each higher level check requires the lower level checks to be completed as well in most situations.

There is more work now for the Line Stations than there was with all aircraft flying with not enough people on shift. With some aircraft requiring Return to Service checks as well which has an enormous amount of work.

This is the argument from the ALAEA. There has always been useful work for LAME’s.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 06:27
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Was it essential work though? If certain aircraft are not going to be flying for a while then those checks don’t need to be completed until close to when the aircraft are ready to return. Or maybe not. Perhaps because of the nature of tasks to be performed the ruling may only apply to engineering, which is maybe why other unions don’t seem to have joined the court action.



I think the right sizing (as far as pilots are concerned at least) is mid 2022-2023 as stated in the recovery plan. That’s what all the VR was about. As explained in the previous post there maybe is a case for some engineers to be stood up in the interim to perform certain engineering checks, although pilots won’t need to be stood up until the recency training is needed, a month or two out from when the aircraft is bought back to service.
Doesn't matter if it's essential I believe is the argument. I'm not fully across it but I believe the precedent exists to prevent companies from standing down full time employees as they wish. For example, Qantas engineers could be doing any one of the c checks outstanding on aircraft parked out the front of hangars, or Jetstar engineers could be doing the checks in aircraft that were scheduled to go to Singapore for heavy checks.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 06:53
  #1933 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 600ft-lb
Doesn't matter if it's essential I believe is the argument. I'm not fully across it but I believe the precedent exists to prevent companies from standing down full time employees as they wish. For example, Qantas engineers could be doing any one of the c checks outstanding on aircraft parked out the front of hangars, or Jetstar engineers could be doing the checks in aircraft that were scheduled to go to Singapore for heavy checks.
Two 787s were just flown to LAX for engine changes empty.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 11:44
  #1934 (permalink)  
 
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Empty except for the belly full of freight, which they should be doing every bloody day!
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 21:13
  #1935 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
Empty except for the belly full of freight, which they should be doing every bloody day!
Except that notion doesn't fit the AJ Pty Ltd mantra.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 21:29
  #1936 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hotnhigh
Except that notion doesn't fit the AJ Pty Ltd mantra.
sky cant fall in if you're getting revenue
better lockin the rights at the lowest price possible
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 22:30
  #1937 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by midas
Yes it is essential work. The Aircraft in storage require various checks.

The storage checks required depending on type are 3, 4, 7, 10, 14, 30, 60, 90 and 180 Day checks. Each higher level check requires the lower level checks to be completed as well in most situations.

There is more work now for the Line Stations than there was with all aircraft flying with not enough people on shift. With some aircraft requiring Return to Service checks as well which has an enormous amount of work.

This is the argument from the ALAEA. There has always been useful work for LAME’s.
The longer they remain in storage the bigger the checks become,lots of new requirements being added & airbus/boeing no longer interested in allowing it to be side tracked or deferred.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 23:30
  #1938 (permalink)  
 
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Is this the game plan ?
The great reset ?
Bankruptcy ,massive restructuring and downsizing to suit the post Covid economy ,renegotiation of all contracts with none of the redundancy costs borne due to the impoverished trading conditions ?
Senior management bonus’ all ‘round !
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 23:54
  #1939 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by blow.n.gasket
Is this the game plan ?
The great reset ?
Bankruptcy ,massive restructuring and downsizing to suit the post Covid economy ,renegotiation of all contracts with none of the redundancy costs borne due to the impoverished trading conditions ?
Senior management bonus’ all ‘round !
No company wants to go into administration just before bankruptcy. That means the cash reserves have been whittled down to the bare minimum and there’s little left. After administrators are called in executive bonuses won’t be fruitful.

A company can downsize and restructure without calling in administrators. They aren’t going to exhaust their finances just so they can save a bit of money on pilot EBAs.

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Old 6th Oct 2020, 02:59
  #1940 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like the ALAEA lost this one
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-...neers/12734666
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