QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney
Age: 43
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The talk is "quite premature" to be speculating , well I would have to say that is a very unusual comment to make
QF management have the right to have another plan & start CR from next week, all other steps required prior to CR have now
been done. Someone senior is thinking about what AC & ANZ did
Perhaps it is very relevant to guys in bottom 1000 , whether they will get paid $100 an hour as an SO or their current year $150 / $160 etc
QF refusing to talk about pay rates for returned CR on the basis that it isn't planned , sounds like this is very a much a "restricted topic" . Why an earth would
company not want to tell you that many SOs will be dropping $100K plus if they decide to CR ? - is it their job to do AIPAs job ? . I don't think AIPA will have
so much chance of closing , what they missed in negotiating 10 ("holly mackerel fellas we have dropped our own guys on B scale/year 1") , that horse has bolted
QF already know the rates, anyone who can read knows the rates , you return on year 1 on either current scale or B scale (max of $115 an hour, if 350 ordered)
Angry (why an earth did you chose that name) , was really just referring to a variation kind of thing for when everyone (still on books) is stood up. Sure a bit different
from other airlines who have done similar who remained getting paychecks , but the principal is just the same & I would have thought worth giving a try. AIPA should
have acted earlier , the time to do this would have been before VR, LWOP , that's when you had the most bargaining power. Agree continued SD is a loser , but very much
for both parties , you aren't fully taking into account how much QF are losing (or were going to lose) from SOs getting yearly increases. The cost of SD just pushes
QF closer to CR. You said SD might last a year , so all over in March 2021 ? , are you actually serious there ? ; SDs is going to be for a few years for most LH crew
AIPA have just sat on their hands & let the bargaining position diminish & let QF run the agenda - could these guys possibly have done a worse job ? The two misses
on eba 10 , it's beyond words - like forgetting to put a sunset clause in
Keg, "The new hire SOs will be able to bid off very quickly" - I think you are thinking of the last three or so years , that is pre-global pandemic. SH is the "safest" place to be
& everyone will be trying to move there. Not to mention global recession , I think people will be staying SOs for many years , definitely over 5 years maybe approaching 10.
How is it you know what promotion rates will be post - pandemic in long haul
But let's not talk about pay rates of SOs when they return , & the subsequent net effect on career earnings because some people here have stated it just isn't appropriate
And enough people have stated CR will not occur - therefore that has to correct
QF management have the right to have another plan & start CR from next week, all other steps required prior to CR have now
been done. Someone senior is thinking about what AC & ANZ did
Perhaps it is very relevant to guys in bottom 1000 , whether they will get paid $100 an hour as an SO or their current year $150 / $160 etc
QF refusing to talk about pay rates for returned CR on the basis that it isn't planned , sounds like this is very a much a "restricted topic" . Why an earth would
company not want to tell you that many SOs will be dropping $100K plus if they decide to CR ? - is it their job to do AIPAs job ? . I don't think AIPA will have
so much chance of closing , what they missed in negotiating 10 ("holly mackerel fellas we have dropped our own guys on B scale/year 1") , that horse has bolted
QF already know the rates, anyone who can read knows the rates , you return on year 1 on either current scale or B scale (max of $115 an hour, if 350 ordered)
Angry (why an earth did you chose that name) , was really just referring to a variation kind of thing for when everyone (still on books) is stood up. Sure a bit different
from other airlines who have done similar who remained getting paychecks , but the principal is just the same & I would have thought worth giving a try. AIPA should
have acted earlier , the time to do this would have been before VR, LWOP , that's when you had the most bargaining power. Agree continued SD is a loser , but very much
for both parties , you aren't fully taking into account how much QF are losing (or were going to lose) from SOs getting yearly increases. The cost of SD just pushes
QF closer to CR. You said SD might last a year , so all over in March 2021 ? , are you actually serious there ? ; SDs is going to be for a few years for most LH crew
AIPA have just sat on their hands & let the bargaining position diminish & let QF run the agenda - could these guys possibly have done a worse job ? The two misses
on eba 10 , it's beyond words - like forgetting to put a sunset clause in
Keg, "The new hire SOs will be able to bid off very quickly" - I think you are thinking of the last three or so years , that is pre-global pandemic. SH is the "safest" place to be
& everyone will be trying to move there. Not to mention global recession , I think people will be staying SOs for many years , definitely over 5 years maybe approaching 10.
How is it you know what promotion rates will be post - pandemic in long haul
But let's not talk about pay rates of SOs when they return , & the subsequent net effect on career earnings because some people here have stated it just isn't appropriate
And enough people have stated CR will not occur - therefore that has to correct
Last edited by Telfer86; 4th Sep 2020 at 06:45.
The best thing a person in the bottom 1000 seniority could do is block you. There are many balanced and unbiased posters who reply with the most current information and actual company lines, and will highlight BS when appropriate. The problem here is the BS is coming from you and not the company. (IMHO) I know this comes across as personal, I don’t mean it that way, just highlighting that QF is not out to get you, or f**k anyone over, and their commentary is more valid than conspiracy theories or rumour.
I’d like to thank the 260 LWOP applicants. Look forward to flying with you at some point.
I’d like to thank the 260 LWOP applicants. Look forward to flying with you at some point.
Nunc est bibendum
The talk is "quite premature" to be speculating , well I would have to say that is a very unusual comment to make
QF management have the right to have another plan & start CR from next week, all other steps required prior to CR have now
been done. Someone senior is thinking about what AC & ANZ did
QF management have the right to have another plan & start CR from next week, all other steps required prior to CR have now
been done. Someone senior is thinking about what AC & ANZ did
QF have said repeatedly that they’re not planning on CR. They’ve said repeatedly that they’re focusing on the VR, ER, LWOP and EA variations as to how to manage the surplus now and into the future.
Could they be blind siding the pilot group? Sure. Could there be a meteor hurtling toward earth? Sure. Both are about the same probability. Particularly when the VR is unlikely to have been finalised within that time frame also and is a necessary first step to have resolved prior to CR.
I also know that the main focus in Flight Ops at the moment is dealing with the VR, ER, LWOP and EA issues that that no one is even considering CR until after these other issues are dealt with.
My recommendation for any Qantas pilot is to take crosscutter’s advice and use the ‘ignore’ function for Telfer. In post after post they’ve pursued a singular line of argument that is quite ignorant of what is actually happening within the airline. Their motivation? Who freaking knows. From here on though they’ll be pushing their crap at one less person.
Tel****all has some type of agenda here. Which isn’t to the benefit of the individuals concerned nor what the company line is.
One could almost bet that he works for a startup or a company that’s in competition and is trying to scare people into making irrational decision to interrupt a fast ramp up.
Qantas is unique. It can hang on to it’s resources, ride out the storm and ramp up very quickly with those resources on short notice. The international competition will need years to achieve the same.
One could almost bet that he works for a startup or a company that’s in competition and is trying to scare people into making irrational decision to interrupt a fast ramp up.
Qantas is unique. It can hang on to it’s resources, ride out the storm and ramp up very quickly with those resources on short notice. The international competition will need years to achieve the same.
Thread Starter
QF already know the rates, anyone who can read knows the rates , you return on year 1 on either current scale or B scale (max of $115 an hour, if 350 ordered
That aircraft will be doing routes with overtime, S/O on that aircraft will most likely be earning $140 k odd... most likely a bit better than whatever career They’ve found in the mean time and certainly nothing to sniff at after a 2-300k CR payout.
Stop with the FUd campaign. It’s tiresome.
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Why on earth is Telfer trying to blame Aipa for this? Seriously, if anyone this time a year ago could have seen how things would be now, then yes they would have been aiming to do what you think they should have done with regards to the EBA.
So Telfer, when something happens in an aircraft that a non-normal procedure hasn't been written for, are you going to deal with it in a logical and common sense matter, or sit back and whine that there should be a written procedure, and you are going to blame someone? Ignore the problem and just whine?
I know exactly the risk of CR and being re-employed. I made my decision on the way forward for what is best for me. The CR payout would offset future losses to some extent. Nobody is going to be a winner through all of this, but each of us has to do what is best for our own individual circumstances. The decision you, I, or Donald Duck make, is not the same decision everyone else has to subscribe to.
And of all the other airlines I know outside of Aust, the minimum any group of my friends is getting is 50% of their pay while they are not working. So yes, they accepted a 50% cut, but still get a truckload more than I do in their monthly pay. If their companies had the same clause for stand down available, they would be getting the same as us.
I am sick of a couple of people here who have nothing better than to try and turn this into union bashing, fleet bashing, rank bashing, age bashing, or beat up on the guy who may be one more number senior to you. Through all of this, it's time to look out for your mates. Not try to turn them against each other.
So Telfer, when something happens in an aircraft that a non-normal procedure hasn't been written for, are you going to deal with it in a logical and common sense matter, or sit back and whine that there should be a written procedure, and you are going to blame someone? Ignore the problem and just whine?
I know exactly the risk of CR and being re-employed. I made my decision on the way forward for what is best for me. The CR payout would offset future losses to some extent. Nobody is going to be a winner through all of this, but each of us has to do what is best for our own individual circumstances. The decision you, I, or Donald Duck make, is not the same decision everyone else has to subscribe to.
And of all the other airlines I know outside of Aust, the minimum any group of my friends is getting is 50% of their pay while they are not working. So yes, they accepted a 50% cut, but still get a truckload more than I do in their monthly pay. If their companies had the same clause for stand down available, they would be getting the same as us.
I am sick of a couple of people here who have nothing better than to try and turn this into union bashing, fleet bashing, rank bashing, age bashing, or beat up on the guy who may be one more number senior to you. Through all of this, it's time to look out for your mates. Not try to turn them against each other.
Tel****all has some type of agenda here. Which isn’t to the benefit of the individuals concerned nor what the company line is.
One could almost bet that he works for a startup or a company that’s in competition and is trying to scare people into making irrational decision to interrupt a fast ramp up.
One could almost bet that he works for a startup or a company that’s in competition and is trying to scare people into making irrational decision to interrupt a fast ramp up.
Qantas is unique. It can hang on to it’s resources, ride out the storm and ramp up very quickly with those resources on short notice. The international competition will need years to achieve the same.
I doubt it. Whether people are on stand down, have taken LWOP or have been made CR (which won’t be happening) if QF decide they need to ramp up quickly and make the call to come back to work, all 3 of those groups will flock back faster than a speeding bullet.
Maybe, but the International competitors have the advantage of mostly being government funded and can ramp up operations initially even if they aren’t profitable. It is a bit of a concern to see Qatar for instance still operating to Australia on regular schedules throughout this time.
Maybe, but the International competitors have the advantage of mostly being government funded and can ramp up operations initially even if they aren’t profitable. It is a bit of a concern to see Qatar for instance still operating to Australia on regular schedules throughout this time.
Qantas won’t have that problem.
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My guess is your business/livelihood has benefited from this mess? Half your luck, but don’t come on here getting glee out of telling everyone how messed up our industry is (I think we know that). And FFS don’t make up CR figures you have no idea about.
It is obvious you don’t work for Qantas in fact I doubt you are a pilot in the industry so stop posting crap on here for personal gain.
As for your comments of time in rank as an SO, I very much doubt that, but if COVID continues to “surprise” then I’ll be thankful being an SO for 10 years. It beats stacking shelves.
Right that’s it, I’ve sprayed my bit of Roundup. Consider taking some of it in.
Misinformation
There is so much scaremongering and incorrect understanding of the agreement and laws. Embarrassing really.
As a result 260 pilots have taken LWOP and the company never had any intention of making anyone CR. They have said they do not want to pay for it and then have to rehire people anyway.
190 are taking VR and around 60 pilots will be over 65 this year.
Roughly 500 pilots are off the books. That is a very large section of the pilot body. That would have to be about 30% of Long Haul.
As a result 260 pilots have taken LWOP and the company never had any intention of making anyone CR. They have said they do not want to pay for it and then have to rehire people anyway.
190 are taking VR and around 60 pilots will be over 65 this year.
Roughly 500 pilots are off the books. That is a very large section of the pilot body. That would have to be about 30% of Long Haul.
Nunc est bibendum
5 LH pilots turned 65 post stand down and are still on seniority list as at 13 July- jobkeeper I presume? There are another four who have turned 65 since 13 July up to today’s date.
There are 55 LH pilots who are in the ER zone of turning 65 between todays date and prior to 1 Jul 22.
188 LH pilots requested VR.
260 Pilots in total (not sure LH/SH break down) on LWOP.
That’s 500+ pilots. Nearly 25% of the total pilot workforce. If 90% of the LWOP applicants were LH then it’s about 1/3 of LH pilots that will be off the books.
There are 55 LH pilots who are in the ER zone of turning 65 between todays date and prior to 1 Jul 22.
188 LH pilots requested VR.
260 Pilots in total (not sure LH/SH break down) on LWOP.
That’s 500+ pilots. Nearly 25% of the total pilot workforce. If 90% of the LWOP applicants were LH then it’s about 1/3 of LH pilots that will be off the books.
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Telfer, please consider this- I would rather be on A350 S/o pay than stacking shelves at Coles, which are lot of us have had to revert to.
Could you and your BS agenda please go away, we come to the forum to have a robust discussion, not have to read your FUD.
As for your AIPA bashing, what would you have done differently in negotiations? Started PIA when there was no flying? Have a talk to any JQ pilot (oh, that's right, your not in the industry) and see what's happening in an open EA.
Go away mate, you are just embarrassing yourself now.
Could you and your BS agenda please go away, we come to the forum to have a robust discussion, not have to read your FUD.
As for your AIPA bashing, what would you have done differently in negotiations? Started PIA when there was no flying? Have a talk to any JQ pilot (oh, that's right, your not in the industry) and see what's happening in an open EA.
Go away mate, you are just embarrassing yourself now.
5 LH pilots turned 65 post stand down and are still on seniority list as at 13 July- jobkeeper I presume? There are another four who have turned 65 since 13 July up to today’s date.
There are 55 LH pilots who are in the ER zone of turning 65 between todays date and prior to 1 Jul 22.
There are 55 LH pilots who are in the ER zone of turning 65 between todays date and prior to 1 Jul 22.
C441, I have heard that argument a few times, but in my view it is a conflation of two different issues. One issue is the inherent requirements of the job, the other issue is the trigger for stand down. I do not believe there is an issue with unlawful age discrimination.
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Could it be that those who are 65+ can't be forced into retirement due to the rostering limitations brought about by another country's regulations regarding operating over age 65, when there actually is no international flying? To force them into retirement would appear discriminatory when those under 65 (other than some 330 pilots) aren't flying outside Australia either.
Not to mention the moral side that we now have 260 odd pilots at the beginning/middle of their career trying to set themselves and families up taking LWOP for long terms.
Maybe it’s time to acknowledge a bloody good run, not sweep up every last cent or lower themselves to bid for the 737 that they would never have dreamed of doing until they hit 65.