QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages
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Whether you like or not , agree with it or disagree , it just doesn't matter (unless of course you get politically organised/active & lobby & campaign)
The Aussie Govts are going to take an extremely cautious & conservative approach, & it is going down a treat with the local
punters telling NSW & Vict where to go
Domestic is going at maybe 2 or 3% and it is unlikely given what the leaders of WA, SA , Qld , NT say that
borders will open this year. They want to see two 14 day cycles of zero transmission in Vic & NSW & that hasn't occurred yet since Covid landed
Domestic "might" start in 2021 - not what we want to hear , but people need to know what the likely reality is
How QF can "map" & plan it's future LH work force with any precision - well they just can't it is guesswork
Murphy said a couple of months ago when he was in front of a Senate Committee when asked about international travel starting
"well I just can't see any road map" , I wonder what he would say today ?
It's guys like him that will be making the decisions on when international resumes not anyone from QF, the politicians are just doing
what the medical experts tell them (regarding international anyway, Qld "I think" , the other guys well .........nobody is going to change McGowan )
The Aussie Govts are going to take an extremely cautious & conservative approach, & it is going down a treat with the local
punters telling NSW & Vict where to go
Domestic is going at maybe 2 or 3% and it is unlikely given what the leaders of WA, SA , Qld , NT say that
borders will open this year. They want to see two 14 day cycles of zero transmission in Vic & NSW & that hasn't occurred yet since Covid landed
Domestic "might" start in 2021 - not what we want to hear , but people need to know what the likely reality is
How QF can "map" & plan it's future LH work force with any precision - well they just can't it is guesswork
Murphy said a couple of months ago when he was in front of a Senate Committee when asked about international travel starting
"well I just can't see any road map" , I wonder what he would say today ?
It's guys like him that will be making the decisions on when international resumes not anyone from QF, the politicians are just doing
what the medical experts tell them (regarding international anyway, Qld "I think" , the other guys well .........nobody is going to change McGowan )
Last edited by Telfer86; 28th Aug 2020 at 14:30.
I’d like to see ScoMo stop Federal funding of infrastructure projects in states like WA and QLD. McGowan and Palazchook will then have fo create their own jobs with closed up economies and the end of JobKeeper. Should last about a fortnight before we have normal programming resume.
Then once state borders open and the public sees that the world isn’t ending, international borders will follow 3-6 months after.
Closing up shop and waiting for a vaccine is a stupid idea that will end in heartbreak and many millions out of work.
Then once state borders open and the public sees that the world isn’t ending, international borders will follow 3-6 months after.
Closing up shop and waiting for a vaccine is a stupid idea that will end in heartbreak and many millions out of work.
I’d like to see ScoMo stop Federal funding of infrastructure projects in states like WA and QLD. McGowan and Palazchook will then have fo create their own jobs with closed up economies and the end of JobKeeper. Should last about a fortnight before we have normal programming resume.
Now this matter does affect our livelihoods, but the border restrictions for people in states where they are strict are insanely popular, for workers outside of industries that rely on cross border movement. I spoken to many people outside of aviation recently (the majority of the public), and whilst they are quite sympathetic to those who are not working at the moment they are also quite supportive of restrictions, regardless of political leaning. The NT Government was just returned to power despite quarantine restrictions from the two largest cities that have adversely affected their large tourism industry. No government would go against such strong feeling on a major issue.
I think the ending of border restrictions will be more down to the ending of widespread community transmission in other states, and less sensationalist reporting of this issue in the media.
Then once state borders open and the public sees that the world isn’t ending, international borders will follow 3-6 months after.
Closing up shop and waiting for a vaccine is a stupid idea that will end in heartbreak and many millions out of work.
Maybe Morrison can satisfy the publics concern by fixing the broken aged care system he presides over & consistently does nothing about,look at where 90 to 100% of the deaths are coming from every day.
People on other forums are happy to state baggage handlers are overpaid but just maybe if the casualised workforce in the aged care system were at least respected & paid a decent hourly rate we wouldnt be reporting the deaths are every day.
People on other forums are happy to state baggage handlers are overpaid but just maybe if the casualised workforce in the aged care system were at least respected & paid a decent hourly rate we wouldnt be reporting the deaths are every day.
That's not going to happen. Morrison backed Palmer's legal challenge up until the point he got slammed for it in WA and then changed his position. You think voters in WA or Qld will support him if he threatens to cut off infrastructure spending? Too many marginal electorates in those states he can't afford to lose.
.
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Nunc est bibendum
Maybe Morrison can satisfy the publics concern by fixing the broken aged care system he presides over & consistently does nothing about,look at where 90 to 100% of the deaths are coming from every day.
People on other forums are happy to state baggage handlers are overpaid but just maybe if the casualised workforce in the aged care system were at least respected & paid a decent hourly rate we wouldnt be reporting the deaths are every day.
People on other forums are happy to state baggage handlers are overpaid but just maybe if the casualised workforce in the aged care system were at least respected & paid a decent hourly rate we wouldnt be reporting the deaths are every day.
So if the aged care system is ‘broken’ why are we only seeing the catastrophic death statistics in just one state? NSW seems to have sorted out the issues once they worked out what was going on at Newmarch. It took a galactic level of stupidity in Victoria for so many aged care homes to be infected.
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but the border restrictions for people in states where they are strict are insanely popular, for workers outside of industries that rely on cross border movement. I spoken to many people outside of aviation recently (the majority of the public), and whilst they are quite sympathetic to those who are not working at the moment they are also quite supportive of restrictions, regardless of political leaning. The NT Government was just returned to power despite quarantine restrictions from the two largest cities that have adversely affected their large tourism industry. No government would go against such strong feeling on a major issue.
I think the ending of border restrictions will be more down to the ending of widespread community transmission in other states, and less sensationalist reporting of this issue in the media.
I'm not so sure, whilst I think numbers will come back after a period of time, don't forget passengers numbers dropped off when people got scared of the virus, before states closed borders. Opening borders will help with return to normal but the main return will come when the public is satisfied the risks have decreased.
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Passenger numbers did drop of a little where I am initially in March, but I think thats because of the unknown of the virus. Now they know about it and would return to reasonable capacity within a few months.
Regardless, this internal closure is similar to having the Berlin wall, we are supposed to be one country.
Life is normal and fun and happy in WA.
A few years back I was prohibited from seeing my Nan in her aged care facility because they had a flu going around (or gastro bug.... can’t remember which). Those sorts of facilities have semi-regular ‘lockdowns’ with restricted visitor numbers and increased health protocols to protect people.
So if the aged care system is ‘broken’ why are we only seeing the catastrophic death statistics in just one state? NSW seems to have sorted out the issues once they worked out what was going on at Newmarch. It took a galactic level of stupidity in Victoria for so many aged care homes to be infected.
So if the aged care system is ‘broken’ why are we only seeing the catastrophic death statistics in just one state? NSW seems to have sorted out the issues once they worked out what was going on at Newmarch. It took a galactic level of stupidity in Victoria for so many aged care homes to be infected.
Having close contact with someone directly in the bus here in Melb, a singificant number of cases reported are dying WITH covid rather than FROM covid.
That's not to sat that there haven't been tragic cases and certainly COVID can bring forward the inevitable considerably.
In Victoria anyone who dies with COVID is automatically added to the COVID death tally and reported as such. Only this morning The Age finally ran an article about this, including that the death of the person in their 20s (who was widely promoted on the media as our youngest COVID victim) is actually still under investigation, which tells you everything you need to know.
Also of interest is the official state death statistics. Granted I don't have access to Aug figures yet - but on average between APR and JUNE around 48 people died in Victorian nursing homes each day*. It is possible that this will rise in JUL/AUG, but it also may not. I'm looking forward to the day the media tell us no-one died in aged care overnight.
All this is not to say that Dan hasn't bugled the way its been handled, but the death stats themselves seem to be more about scaremongering than anything else.
* Source bdm.vic.gov.au
Last edited by Koizi; 28th Aug 2020 at 23:40. Reason: lockdown
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as you suck off the teet of the eastern states. Wait until the relationship with China really sours. Then you’ll have nothing, and will be screaming like stuck pigs.
The mining related activity around Perth Airport would very strongly suggest there isn’t much sucking of the Eastern teat going on. If the China relationship goes South, well the whole country is screwed.
Nunc est bibendum
It’s not far away from ‘normal’ here in NSW either. Sure, we can’t have a full SCG for the footy but community sport is still going with people being sensible about the precautions that need to be taken.
It’s time to learn to live with this disease. As the kiwis demonstrated this thing will re-surface at some stage. Locking borders down every few months is not a long term solution.
It’s time to learn to live with this disease. As the kiwis demonstrated this thing will re-surface at some stage. Locking borders down every few months is not a long term solution.
No, it’s still a happy environment to be in, even with such a huge impact on our jobs.
The mining related activity around Perth Airport would very strongly suggest there isn’t much sucking of the Eastern teat going on. If the China relationship goes South, well the whole country is screwed.
The mining related activity around Perth Airport would very strongly suggest there isn’t much sucking of the Eastern teat going on. If the China relationship goes South, well the whole country is screwed.
My mistake. Rainbows and lollipops it is. I better tell my mates, colleagues and family that even though kids are being pulled from their schools, mortgages are under enormous pressure and it’s tuna and 2 minute noodles for dinner again, it’s actually a happy environment.
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Genuine question
Whenever I ask or put the rates of pay that a redundant pilot gets if they are re-employed by QF pretty much deathly silence
Now why would that be ?
My reading of agreement is that only seniority is preserved if CR are returned, years of service for reinstated medical terminations is specifically stated
but nothing for return of redundant pilots. Yes it is explained years of service credited from CTL for SO but nothing specified about employment experience 1, also being included
So it seems to be a logical conclusion that if CR occurs & you are reemployed you would be on year 1 pay - just a straightforward interpretation of agreement. Then you also
have new B scale SO rates which top out at $115 per hour if A350 is ordered (call that C scale, if 787 SO pay is B scale)
If what some people are saying is correct & vast majority SOs who joined since 2016 taken lwop , then if CR does come it will hit those longer term SOs who joined up until
January 2009 who are top of scale. That's going to be a substantial pay cut , in current dollars from $170 an hour back to $100 per hour & you could well expect to be a C scale
for some time. Your career earnings would be vastly lower than someone who took lwop
Not trying to be a smart alec or upset anybody, but why is this such a taboo subject ?
& instead people trying to talk up the downside of taking lwop , that QF might tell you to "go away" after your lwop term expires. 300 plus guys took lwop over last decade
didn't happen once to my knowledge , why float this scenario now
Personally I think CR will come to all who joined since 2016 & QF would easily pay for it just out of savings for pausing years of service pay increases , not even thinking about
leave accruals , & all the rest of it. Just pay 26 weeks on today's pay rate today's dollars today , done , finished , over
Whenever I ask or put the rates of pay that a redundant pilot gets if they are re-employed by QF pretty much deathly silence
Now why would that be ?
My reading of agreement is that only seniority is preserved if CR are returned, years of service for reinstated medical terminations is specifically stated
but nothing for return of redundant pilots. Yes it is explained years of service credited from CTL for SO but nothing specified about employment experience 1, also being included
So it seems to be a logical conclusion that if CR occurs & you are reemployed you would be on year 1 pay - just a straightforward interpretation of agreement. Then you also
have new B scale SO rates which top out at $115 per hour if A350 is ordered (call that C scale, if 787 SO pay is B scale)
If what some people are saying is correct & vast majority SOs who joined since 2016 taken lwop , then if CR does come it will hit those longer term SOs who joined up until
January 2009 who are top of scale. That's going to be a substantial pay cut , in current dollars from $170 an hour back to $100 per hour & you could well expect to be a C scale
for some time. Your career earnings would be vastly lower than someone who took lwop
Not trying to be a smart alec or upset anybody, but why is this such a taboo subject ?
& instead people trying to talk up the downside of taking lwop , that QF might tell you to "go away" after your lwop term expires. 300 plus guys took lwop over last decade
didn't happen once to my knowledge , why float this scenario now
Personally I think CR will come to all who joined since 2016 & QF would easily pay for it just out of savings for pausing years of service pay increases , not even thinking about
leave accruals , & all the rest of it. Just pay 26 weeks on today's pay rate today's dollars today , done , finished , over
Genuine question
Whenever I ask or put the rates of pay that a redundant pilot gets if they are re-employed by QF pretty much deathly silence
Now why would that be ?
My reading of agreement is that only seniority is preserved if CR are returned, years of service for reinstated medical terminations is specifically stated
but nothing for return of redundant pilots. Yes it is explained years of service credited from CTL for SO but nothing specified about employment experience 1, also being included
So it seems to be a logical conclusion that if CR occurs & you are reemployed you would be on year 1 pay - just a straightforward interpretation of agreement. Then you also
have new B scale SO rates which top out at $115 per hour if A350 is ordered (call that C scale, if 787 SO pay is B scale)
If what some people are saying is correct & vast majority SOs who joined since 2016 taken lwop , then if CR does come it will hit those longer term SOs who joined up until
January 2009 who are top of scale. That's going to be a substantial pay cut , in current dollars from $170 an hour back to $100 per hour & you could well expect to be a C scale
for some time. Your career earnings would be vastly lower than someone who took lwop
Not trying to be a smart alec or upset anybody, but why is this such a taboo subject ?
& instead people trying to talk up the downside of taking lwop , that QF might tell you to "go away" after your lwop term expires. 300 plus guys took lwop over last decade
didn't happen once to my knowledge , why float this scenario now
Personally I think CR will come to all who joined since 2016 & QF would easily pay for it just out of savings for pausing years of service pay increases , not even thinking about
leave accruals , & all the rest of it. Just pay 26 weeks on today's pay rate today's dollars today , done , finished , over
Whenever I ask or put the rates of pay that a redundant pilot gets if they are re-employed by QF pretty much deathly silence
Now why would that be ?
My reading of agreement is that only seniority is preserved if CR are returned, years of service for reinstated medical terminations is specifically stated
but nothing for return of redundant pilots. Yes it is explained years of service credited from CTL for SO but nothing specified about employment experience 1, also being included
So it seems to be a logical conclusion that if CR occurs & you are reemployed you would be on year 1 pay - just a straightforward interpretation of agreement. Then you also
have new B scale SO rates which top out at $115 per hour if A350 is ordered (call that C scale, if 787 SO pay is B scale)
If what some people are saying is correct & vast majority SOs who joined since 2016 taken lwop , then if CR does come it will hit those longer term SOs who joined up until
January 2009 who are top of scale. That's going to be a substantial pay cut , in current dollars from $170 an hour back to $100 per hour & you could well expect to be a C scale
for some time. Your career earnings would be vastly lower than someone who took lwop
Not trying to be a smart alec or upset anybody, but why is this such a taboo subject ?
& instead people trying to talk up the downside of taking lwop , that QF might tell you to "go away" after your lwop term expires. 300 plus guys took lwop over last decade
didn't happen once to my knowledge , why float this scenario now
Personally I think CR will come to all who joined since 2016 & QF would easily pay for it just out of savings for pausing years of service pay increases , not even thinking about
leave accruals , & all the rest of it. Just pay 26 weeks on today's pay rate today's dollars today , done , finished , over
I dont know which year scale you go on to but its dependant on lots of factors and hardly an issue like you are striving to make it seem.
stick with your current hourly but 50% divisors or whatever may happen and your musings are moot.
someone may come back and go onto the 737 or whatever and your musings are moot.
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Don't think there will be be so many NB RHS or LHS places in the future as SH is the safer place to be
You would be a mug to stay in LH if you could move back to SH
My reading of the agreement is that you return on year 1 SO scale(& possibly a C scale at that) , how does it depend on "many things" & where are they mentioned in agreement ?
I'd suggest to you it doesn't depend on "many things" - that a CR would simply return on year 1 payscale
Why wouldn't it be an issue as people do a cost benefit analysis against taking lwop or not , the basic question , when would I be likely to be re-employed and how much money would I get paid if I did get re-employed ? Is accruing annual leave & other other entitlements atm , how does that lay off against T & Cs if I did get re-employed
The message & push on this thread is "don't take lwop everything will be alright " & as soon as anybody suggests anything contrary, told they are fear mongering
All sorts of silly suggestions that lwop might be turned away when they seek to return & are trying to "jump above" those more "senior" to them & hat is some kind of original sin
Clearly people just want a layer of people beneath them to soak up any CRs
You would be a mug to stay in LH if you could move back to SH
My reading of the agreement is that you return on year 1 SO scale(& possibly a C scale at that) , how does it depend on "many things" & where are they mentioned in agreement ?
I'd suggest to you it doesn't depend on "many things" - that a CR would simply return on year 1 payscale
Why wouldn't it be an issue as people do a cost benefit analysis against taking lwop or not , the basic question , when would I be likely to be re-employed and how much money would I get paid if I did get re-employed ? Is accruing annual leave & other other entitlements atm , how does that lay off against T & Cs if I did get re-employed
The message & push on this thread is "don't take lwop everything will be alright " & as soon as anybody suggests anything contrary, told they are fear mongering
All sorts of silly suggestions that lwop might be turned away when they seek to return & are trying to "jump above" those more "senior" to them & hat is some kind of original sin
Clearly people just want a layer of people beneath them to soak up any CRs
Last edited by Telfer86; 29th Aug 2020 at 12:34.