QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages
Not in its entirety, but there are provisions in it that can be set aside. For example all matters pertaining to seniority since these are not allowable matters in law and haven't been for about 20 years. There would be no argument there even from the union other than an expression of displeasure.
Another fearmonger here to post baseless nonsense for no reason other than get a reaction out of people.
They had the chance to do CR right from the start, they didn’t. They could’ve done CR instead of paying out substantially more in VR to more senior pilots, but it they didn’t. They’ve already announced any short term surplus within 2/3 years will be managed via stand downs, which they can do and are doing. The long term surplus beyond 3 years has been taken care of via the VR and early retirement or natural retirement.
They are looking toward the long term future and planning on keeping the most junior within the group seeing as they will around for the longest.
They had the chance to do CR right from the start, they didn’t. They could’ve done CR instead of paying out substantially more in VR to more senior pilots, but it they didn’t. They’ve already announced any short term surplus within 2/3 years will be managed via stand downs, which they can do and are doing. The long term surplus beyond 3 years has been taken care of via the VR and early retirement or natural retirement.
They are looking toward the long term future and planning on keeping the most junior within the group seeing as they will around for the longest.
Another fearmonger here to post baseless nonsense for no reason other than get a reaction out of people.
They had the chance to do CR right from the start, they didn’t. They could’ve done CR instead of paying out substantially more in VR to more senior pilots, but it they didn’t. They’ve already announced any short term surplus within 2/3 years will be managed via stand downs, which they can do and are doing. The long term surplus beyond 3 years has been taken care of via the VR and early retirement or natural retirement.
They are looking toward the long term future and planning on keeping the most junior within the group seeing as they will around for the longest.
They had the chance to do CR right from the start, they didn’t. They could’ve done CR instead of paying out substantially more in VR to more senior pilots, but it they didn’t. They’ve already announced any short term surplus within 2/3 years will be managed via stand downs, which they can do and are doing. The long term surplus beyond 3 years has been taken care of via the VR and early retirement or natural retirement.
They are looking toward the long term future and planning on keeping the most junior within the group seeing as they will around for the longest.
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Not in its entirety, but there are provisions in it that can be set aside. For example all matters pertaining to seniority since these are not allowable matters in law and haven't been for about 20 years. There would be no argument there even from the union other than an expression of displeasure.
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Australia
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Another fearmonger here to post baseless nonsense for no reason other than get a reaction out of people.
They had the chance to do CR right from the start, they didn’t. They could’ve done CR instead of paying out substantially more in VR to more senior pilots, but it they didn’t. They’ve already announced any short term surplus within 2/3 years will be managed via stand downs, which they can do and are doing. The long term surplus beyond 3 years has been taken care of via the VR and early retirement or natural retirement.
They are looking toward the long term future and planning on keeping the most junior within the group seeing as they will around for the longest.
They had the chance to do CR right from the start, they didn’t. They could’ve done CR instead of paying out substantially more in VR to more senior pilots, but it they didn’t. They’ve already announced any short term surplus within 2/3 years will be managed via stand downs, which they can do and are doing. The long term surplus beyond 3 years has been taken care of via the VR and early retirement or natural retirement.
They are looking toward the long term future and planning on keeping the most junior within the group seeing as they will around for the longest.
They offered VR because they have to it’s in the agreement, just like offering LWOP (which they have too). We all know it VR was a bad deal, the only ones who took it are either jack of the politics or were going to leave anyway. Early retirement even more so.
All the 747s have gone, 6 A380s won’t fly again, a bunch of A330s reaching end of life and no orders for the foreseeable future (I’m fact 787s not being delivered) and what, 190 pilots gone with VR?
Come on. We’ve got guys over 65 on stand down accruing leave. No one is leaving unless they get a payout. Hell I wouldn’t.
Have a look at the seniority list, how long are they going to carry the excess. It’s not fear mongering, CR is a better option than long term stand down for pilots. If you don’t want CR then do what the company want and take LWOP, a bunch already have. I’m a middle seniority S/O and I’d prefer to be paid out if they’re going to leave me hanging for years, at least then I’ve got money to stay afloat and do other things.
P.S Fair work is not the Industrial Court which has the same powers as the Supreme Court
Apparently not ! look my motives here are misunderstood, if I can stop just one person from throwing thousands of dollars at a legal argument that I know cannot be won, despite their firm solemn belief, supported by legal advice that they will because it's written in their agreement/contract, then I would consider my objectives achieved.
Nunc est bibendum
I was on the understanding that all matters that weren’t allowable were removed from EAs a number of years ago. We used to have a number of ‘letters of agreement’ that sat beside our award but when FWA came in many of these items were either included in the EA or deemed not allowable and removed.
Thus, everything in the award is allowable including the notion of who is made CR first.
For the avoidance of doubt, non allowable term can be found here.
I’m not sure what the ‘industrial court’ is you’re referring to Xeptu. The LHEA is a national award and overseen by Fairwork Australia. They’re the ones that rule on all matters relating to it. What is this ‘industrial court’ you speak of? NSW has the NSW IR commission but it overseas the state awards of things like NSW coppers, nurses, ambos, public service, etc.
Thus, everything in the award is allowable including the notion of who is made CR first.
For the avoidance of doubt, non allowable term can be found here.
I’m not sure what the ‘industrial court’ is you’re referring to Xeptu. The LHEA is a national award and overseen by Fairwork Australia. They’re the ones that rule on all matters relating to it. What is this ‘industrial court’ you speak of? NSW has the NSW IR commission but it overseas the state awards of things like NSW coppers, nurses, ambos, public service, etc.
I’m not sure what the ‘industrial court’ is you’re referring to Xeptu. The LHEA is a national award and overseen by Fairwork Australia. They’re the ones that rule on all matters relating to it. What is this ‘industrial court’ you speak of? NSW has the NSW IR commission but it overseas the state awards of things like NSW coppers, nurses, ambos, public service, etc.
Nunc est bibendum
Right. The court you appeal to after the Fair Work Commission has ruled on the issue. So the Industrial division of the Federal Court which is always going to be the next point up the ladder after Fair Work.
All the 747s have gone, 6 A380s won’t fly again, a bunch of A330s reaching end of life and no orders for the foreseeable future (I’m fact 787s not being delivered) and what, 190 pilots gone with VR?
CR is a better option than long term stand down for pilots. If you don’t want CR then do what the company want and take LWOP, a bunch already have. I’m a middle seniority S/O and I’d prefer to be paid out if they’re going to leave me hanging for years, at least then I’ve got money to stay afloat and do other things.
Wouldn’t it be better to share the flying around with a lower divisor in the interim and remain in the group with a regular income?
Even if divisors are reduced to half of the existing ones it’ll still be a more than liveable wage for most pilots.
If you are CR’d then you are out of the group, out of the system. You do come back in seniority when recruiting is needed again, but that may be a long, long time away. If that’s the case HR may decide to use existing pilots to their maximum extent rather than authorise the re-recruitment of those CR’d.
Wouldn’t it be better to share the flying around with a lower divisor in the interim and remain in the group with a regular income? That’s my thought anyway, others may be different. I guess the option of VR was there if anyone wanted a payout now.
If you are CR’d then you are out of the group, out of the system. You do come back in seniority when recruiting is needed again, but that may be a long, long time away. If that’s the case HR may decide to use existing pilots to their maximum extent rather than authorise the re-recruitment of those CR’d.
Wouldn’t it be better to share the flying around with a lower divisor in the interim and remain in the group with a regular income? That’s my thought anyway, others may be different. I guess the option of VR was there if anyone wanted a payout now.
HR using pilots to maximum? EBA covers that too.
Don’t be so keen to throw out your award - those provisions that are in place aren’t there by accident.
Selfish? I don’t think so, but it’s not up to us to fix the company’s problems.
Saving redundancies at massive cost? Not for me I’m afraid. Make me CR, I’ll come back when the time comes.
Just 1 opinion.
