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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 23rd Aug 2020, 09:36
  #1541 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting Keg. I guess we can put that Facebook news post to bed then.

For what it's worth, I asked the question about minimum 26 weeks as there is talk it doesn't apply to SO's who are still in the probation period (have to complete 4 recurrent simulators - about 150 of them).
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 09:52
  #1542 (permalink)  
 
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Being well read you will have absorbed the appropriate FWA information regarding Probationary Employment. To summarise though, Probation is something you pass or otherwise. It is not relevant to the redundancy provisions in the way you’re suggesting where a downturn would allow the company to effectively dismiss such employees with less entitlements than prescribed in an agreement. More uninformed crap.

If you have been in the company less than 12 months there are different rules though which those people would be advised to research. For clarity, I do not know whether the EBA provisions would apply in lieu of other FWA legislation in this instance. Stand down provisions did....so....I’m sure the answer is out there.

Last edited by crosscutter; 23rd Aug 2020 at 10:18.
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 10:55
  #1543 (permalink)  
Keg

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Not being employed post probation as a result of your actions resulting in the company saying ‘nyet’ is a very different thing to your position becoming redundant. I suspect AIPA legal would be able to answer that one pretty quickly.
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 11:54
  #1544 (permalink)  
 
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Whats the backup plan if internal borders stay closed? Business leaders will next push for the PM to hold an urgent referendum on a vote to become a republic. A president elect will then have the power to dissolve states, and the power states have over their own borders.

Yes votes in a referendum from NSW + VIC alone would out number No votes from WA + NT + SA + QLD + TAS.
Lets hope business leaders have a better grasp of how the Constitution and the Australian political system works.
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 12:39
  #1545 (permalink)  
 
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The more you think about it the more stand down is going to cost

With regard to annual increments etc it all adds up

Also if someone does return from CR (& clearly you would expect QF to follow through & you be first employed)

Sure your seniority number is restored but you would go back to year one wages on SO (?) , that is going to be a big hit if all LH since 2106 have
departed & it goes back to 2009 & further back
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 12:51
  #1546 (permalink)  
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Telfer, are you in Qantas? The answers to the points you have raised are in the LHEA.

The award states that any pilot made CR is put on the ‘redundancy list’ and re-employed when Qantas re-commences recruiting. It’s not a matter of ‘you would expect’, Qantas is bound by the LHEA to do so.

Further, the LHEA also states that you don’t go back to year 1 rates but instead pick up where you left off. So any pilot employed in 2009 who may be made CR (as highly unlikely as it is) would return on year 11 pay.

So yes, Qantas will save the yearly increments by making someone CR but as already stated, it takes 3 1/2 years of stand down to equate to the minimum 6 month payout.
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 13:04
  #1547 (permalink)  
 
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The last couple of days on this thread have been chock full of teachable moments. Thanks Keg.
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 14:40
  #1548 (permalink)  
 
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Well maybe I am missing something

It says resume relative position on seniority list - got that

But that can occur with you being a year 1 employee ? or can't it ?

The number gets preserved but how can you be a 8 , 12 whatever year employee ? when you have just started

Agreed great teaching

I still reckon they would be within their rights to do some test /interview kind of stuff before re-employment
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 15:03
  #1549 (permalink)  
 
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QF just raised $1.4bn of fresh equity. No chance of QF going into administration in the next 18 months. Plus it has lots of assets it can still monetise.

The real question is not if QF will survive, but what the new QF will look like.

Domestic should return in the new year. The question mark is international. But QF doesnt need international to survive. It could cut off the international business and would be a very profitable airline in the future. When international will be back is any ones guess at the moment. Lots of crystal balls working overtime.

The support inside the individual states outside NSW and Vic for keeping border restrictions in place runs as high as 90%. Anyone is dreaming if they think any State leader is going to ignore this. Even the Feds cant ignore this. Threats and legal cases will only serve to make people more determined to be protective. Plus no one wants to be the party everyone is pointing the finger for any new outbreak. So a negotiated outcome is the best solution. Get the case numbers down and negotiate with the individual states.

Get Trump out of the White House to sort out the problems in the USA. The world could do with a steady hand at the wheel,

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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 16:36
  #1550 (permalink)  
 
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Just trying to get my head around the current travel restrictions

The "unrestricted" states/territories are NT/SA/QLD/NT/Tas , then WA off to the side a bit

You can travel unrestricted through them except WA won't allow inbound residents of NT/SA/Tas/QLD (unless the "important" person/govt/mil stuff)

But the WA people could for example got for a holiday in Cairns & go back home no problems

Victorians can't go anywhere but everyone big welcome, NSW/ACT all welcome except Victorians (but then you won't be able to return home or have to quarantine)

So the theory in WA is not to segment the country, they will open when all is open ? (said from day 1 ?). Or just protect the economy first priority - don't need the tourist dollar so much

It would really be hard to dream up a bigger train wreck for domestic airlines

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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 20:33
  #1551 (permalink)  
 
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Tefler86.
From what I am reading on WA Gov. Dept. Health's website not even WA Citizens can reenter WA during the border closure.
The ONLY persons allowed to enter WA are covered under the " persons exempt " list and Travel outside of the State by a Citizen of WA and return from a Holiday is not one of the exempt persons .
Domestic Airline Travel is rather chaotic ATM and will remain so until at least end of the year , maybe some easing for Xmas Holidays.
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Old 23rd Aug 2020, 21:34
  #1552 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Telfer86
Well maybe I am missing something

It says resume relative position on seniority list - got that

But that can occur with you being a year 1 employee ? or can't it ?
If 100 pilots are made CR but due to some being on LWOP it extends up to a couple of hundred off the bottom, when they all return to work, they all go back to their relative seniority numbers to each other. No one gets to jump anyone else.

It works the same now when a pilot who was medically retired is able to get their medical back in 3-5 years time. They too go back to their previous seniority in terms of relative to everyone else. So if the person immediately senior to me medically retires and then comes back three years later they return to being immediately senior to me. This is as it has been for decades now.

Originally Posted by Telfer86

The number gets preserved but how can you be a 8 , 12 whatever year employee ? when you have just started
It depends on what you’re talking about. Pay scales are within the LHEA and for those you return to your previous yearly increment. It may seem that you’re only a year 0 employee but the LHEA is the thing that says you return to year 3, 4, 7, or 12 depending on what increment you were on when you were CR’d.

I’m not sure what it would say for stuff like staff travel and so on but that’s a pretty minor issue in the greater scheme of thing.

Originally Posted by Telfer86
I still reckon they would be within their rights to do some test /interview kind of stuff before re-employment
Even Qantas has said that they’re not looking at doing any re-testing, just some sort of ‘on boarding’ process that would include a sit down chat.
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Old 24th Aug 2020, 01:35
  #1553 (permalink)  
 
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Highest level of respect to you Keg. Clearly you have been around as long as me, know your way around an EBA and understand what you're talking about.

My question to you is, how confident are you that the company will follow the terms of the EBA instead of the logical thing, set aside the EBA and make redundant all those pilots not needed right now or in the foreseeable future, when it becomes necessary.

I don't expect you to answer that question publicly.
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Old 24th Aug 2020, 02:09
  #1554 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu

how confident are you that the company will follow the terms of the EBA instead of the logical thing, set aside the EBA and make redundant all those pilots not needed right now or in the foreseeable future, when it becomes necessary.
As has been explained on this thread numerous times before, the existing stand down provisions in current EBAs are being used to deal with the pilots not needed right now or in the immediate future. Any surplus in the long term was taken care of via the high uptake of VR and the use of early retirement. That is the logical thing, not these mass redundancies you’ve fear mongered yourself into believing are inevitable.


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Old 24th Aug 2020, 02:12
  #1555 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
As has been explained on this thread numerous times before, the existing stand down provisions in current EBAs are being used to deal with the pilots not needed right now or in the immediate future. Any surplus in the long term was taken care of via the high uptake of VR and the use of early retirement. That is the logical thing, not these mass redundancies you’ve fear mongered yourself into believing are inevitable.
Fair enough! It just remains to be seen if it pans out that way.
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Old 24th Aug 2020, 02:19
  #1556 (permalink)  
 
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It’s okay to be scared. It’s easy to pessimistic, especially when we are effectively in the wilderness right now. Along with hiding behind anonymity. Manifesting personal fears and trying to share and project them onto others.

There is light and green shoots appearing. The last 6 months have gone pretty quickly. The sky hasn’t fallen in. We are slowly chipping away and life will go on.

The truth is usually quite boring.
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Old 24th Aug 2020, 02:32
  #1557 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
Fair enough! It just remains to be seen if it pans out that way.
Do you work for QF Xeptu? Are you concerned about CR? I don't see any point to your fear mongering, especially from someone who obviously has no understanding of the EBA.
Thanks, Keg, for enlightening those who rather project their fear onto others than take the time to read our EBA...
For all those on here who don't understand those provisions, ring up AIPA (yes, I'm talking to you ******, even though on Qrewroom you are chucking stones at them even though you are not a member) and discuss your concerns. The truth is out there, definitely not here.
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Old 24th Aug 2020, 02:38
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So Tino getting the boot is Entre.

Standby for a Pineapple for Main Course

Desert is anyone’s guess.
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Old 24th Aug 2020, 02:45
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Originally Posted by Green.Dot
So Tino getting the boot is Entre.

Standby for a Pineapple for Main Course

Desert is anyone’s guess.
I agree.

We haven't seen the worst of it yet.
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Old 24th Aug 2020, 02:48
  #1560 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Street garbage
Do you work for QF Xeptu? Are you concerned about CR? I don't see any point to your fear mongering, especially from someone who obviously has no understanding of the EBA.
Thanks, Keg, for enlightening those who rather project their fear onto others than take the time to read our EBA...
For all those on here who don't understand those provisions, ring up AIPA (yes, I'm talking to you ******, even though on Qrewroom you are chucking stones at them even though you are not a member) and discuss your concerns. The truth is out there, definitely not here.
As I have previously stated, I don't work for QF, nor am I emotionally invested.
What you see as scaremongering, I see as a valid opinion. If I were doing that in your workplace I would respond in the exact same way as you, seek them out and counsel them.
Here however in Pprune, (what the website is designed for) you can say what you really think, slander excluded. For those that don't want to hear that you can choose not to read it.
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