QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages
As this Covid business seems it will drag on beyond Xmas . QF will likely go into Voluntary Administration early in the new year .
This would allow a full reset of EBA agreements and if you don’t like it leave scenario .
It’s QFs best play to level the playing field and rebuild totally on their terms .
This would allow a full reset of EBA agreements and if you don’t like it leave scenario .
It’s QFs best play to level the playing field and rebuild totally on their terms .
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Oooh, do you think though? Lets not forget the "discrepancy" of VA's books from entering into Administration to what was actually found. Would certain people want the books looked at so closely?
Lol..you can’t just go into VA...In all but exceptional circumstances you need to be insolvent..(as a company)
Financial ‘runway’ available to QF was one of the most asked questions following the full year results. The market believes AJ answers.
Many changes are coming to QF... Voluntary Admin ‘early next year’ is not one of them. Have a look at Virgin. They could no longer pay their company wide debts so they became insolvent so had no choice but to enter VA. However, the frequent flyer program was not put into administration. It would be possible if this dragged on and on and QF could not cover their debt covenants, that triggers for VA could be met and International might be ‘hung out to dry’ to initiate a political dispute for the ages. Luckily for all but the sadists, this a quite a way off yet.
Financial ‘runway’ available to QF was one of the most asked questions following the full year results. The market believes AJ answers.
Many changes are coming to QF... Voluntary Admin ‘early next year’ is not one of them. Have a look at Virgin. They could no longer pay their company wide debts so they became insolvent so had no choice but to enter VA. However, the frequent flyer program was not put into administration. It would be possible if this dragged on and on and QF could not cover their debt covenants, that triggers for VA could be met and International might be ‘hung out to dry’ to initiate a political dispute for the ages. Luckily for all but the sadists, this a quite a way off yet.
Xeptu I'm shocked no one here has called you out properly on your absolute BS talk and fear mongering rhetoric. I had to create an account to say something. You clearly have no idea about industrial law and standard business practices and it seems you're more of a troll here than a useful contributor. You don't even understand the basic concept of stand down and the relation to jobkeeper. They aren't linked. Stop trying to scare people into your strange ideas.
No company wants to go into voluntary admin, if this were the case every financial year every company with a unionised workforce would just 'reset'. There's a lot more at stake than just reputation going into voluntary admin, go have a read of the Virgin thread or better yet, go do an MBA and come back with some actual knowledge.
Take off the tin-foil and head outside for your one hour of exercise please. Your garbage is clogging up this thread.
No company wants to go into voluntary admin, if this were the case every financial year every company with a unionised workforce would just 'reset'. There's a lot more at stake than just reputation going into voluntary admin, go have a read of the Virgin thread or better yet, go do an MBA and come back with some actual knowledge.
Take off the tin-foil and head outside for your one hour of exercise please. Your garbage is clogging up this thread.
You speculators are just so clueless.
- Qantas is cash flow positive with just 20% of its domestic network operating and loyalty.
- it owns its fleet (bar the few new 787s it recently hocked for some extra cash
- with standdown it has a large workforce ready to rapidly stand up when required.
- it owns a lot of property outright
- it has 4 billion in cash plus a further billion it can access if required
- domestic will rapidly turn on when the borders are relaxed
- international can afford to be parked with an owned fleet
- international won’t be nationalised.
- qantas will use Jetstar to shield itself from virgin
- it qantas needs cash it will sell Jetstar. That would be a last resort and would probably be going into FY21/22 if this debacle continues.
- Qantas is cash flow positive with just 20% of its domestic network operating and loyalty.
- it owns its fleet (bar the few new 787s it recently hocked for some extra cash
- with standdown it has a large workforce ready to rapidly stand up when required.
- it owns a lot of property outright
- it has 4 billion in cash plus a further billion it can access if required
- domestic will rapidly turn on when the borders are relaxed
- international can afford to be parked with an owned fleet
- international won’t be nationalised.
- qantas will use Jetstar to shield itself from virgin
- it qantas needs cash it will sell Jetstar. That would be a last resort and would probably be going into FY21/22 if this debacle continues.
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I said it can't be ruled out, not that it was likely to happen. I understand that you're emotionally invested, hence your personal attack, I have been around a long time, this is not my first rodeo and I have a very good understanding of how it works thanks. I concede post covid is a whole new ball game, such that nothing is off the table.
Here’s the thing Xeptu. It is possible in your bucket load of visions/ideas something might come good for you just like in penny stock investing. Most likely though, you will walk away with nothing. Those that pipe up do so, begrudgingly, because based on industrial and business experience they know you are doing nothing more than scaremongering. It is uneducated drivel whose traction depends on those who know less than you. It’s a fine example of those having a little knowledge being far more dangerous than those with none.
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Everything about this situation so far has resulted in the worst thing happening. Nothing has improved from day 1. Thinking of how the situation could further spiral out of control isn't scaremongering. It's called thinking outside the box, and planning accordingly.
Whilst I don't agree with everything Xeptu has said, they are bang on the money on more than a few points.
Have a good think about this 'out there idea'.
Whats the backup plan if internal borders stay closed? Business leaders will next push for the PM to hold an urgent referendum on a vote to become a republic. A president elect will then have the power to dissolve states, and the power states have over their own borders.
Yes votes in a referendum from NSW + VIC alone would out number No votes from WA + NT + SA + QLD + TAS.
Whilst I don't agree with everything Xeptu has said, they are bang on the money on more than a few points.
Have a good think about this 'out there idea'.
Whats the backup plan if internal borders stay closed? Business leaders will next push for the PM to hold an urgent referendum on a vote to become a republic. A president elect will then have the power to dissolve states, and the power states have over their own borders.
Yes votes in a referendum from NSW + VIC alone would out number No votes from WA + NT + SA + QLD + TAS.
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Yikes!
There are going to be some interesting CRM exercises at EPs when things start to crank up again if Flight Ops. are watching this thread.
Keep it nice people.
How you remember this episode will depend on how you behaved under pressure.
There are going to be some interesting CRM exercises at EPs when things start to crank up again if Flight Ops. are watching this thread.
Keep it nice people.
How you remember this episode will depend on how you behaved under pressure.
Even if borders stay closed, and the current $40mill a week last for another 12 months. That’s $2 Billion. Even then QF will not be insolvent. Naturally further capital measures will have been attempted before then to prevent widespread shorting of QAN stock. It’s that simple. QF have no debt covenants due.
If we were having this discussion in 12 months due to the above situation eventuating I might start agreeing with some of the points. However, it would be old news as every paper would be covering it. Also Bain and Virgin would be dead by then if that was the case.
It Is uneducated scaremongering horse **** because it is devoid of fact. As for other non metric derived suggestions created by some on here (which you are entitled as a rumour network) understand they lack the wisdom of history at best, and at worst they contradict the very agreements in place which were signed as the COVID-19 disaster was unfolding.
If we were having this discussion in 12 months due to the above situation eventuating I might start agreeing with some of the points. However, it would be old news as every paper would be covering it. Also Bain and Virgin would be dead by then if that was the case.
It Is uneducated scaremongering horse **** because it is devoid of fact. As for other non metric derived suggestions created by some on here (which you are entitled as a rumour network) understand they lack the wisdom of history at best, and at worst they contradict the very agreements in place which were signed as the COVID-19 disaster was unfolding.
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Xeptu I'm shocked no one here has called you out properly on your absolute BS talk and fear mongering rhetoric. I had to create an account to say something. You clearly have no idea about industrial law and standard business practices and it seems you're more of a troll here than a useful contributor. You don't even understand the basic concept of stand down and the relation to jobkeeper. They aren't linked. Stop trying to scare people into your strange ideas.
No company wants to go into voluntary admin, if this were the case every financial year every company with a unionised workforce would just 'reset'. There's a lot more at stake than just reputation going into voluntary admin, go have a read of the Virgin thread or better yet, go do an MBA and come back with some actual knowledge.
Take off the tin-foil and head outside for your one hour of exercise please. Your garbage is clogging up this thread.
No company wants to go into voluntary admin, if this were the case every financial year every company with a unionised workforce would just 'reset'. There's a lot more at stake than just reputation going into voluntary admin, go have a read of the Virgin thread or better yet, go do an MBA and come back with some actual knowledge.
Take off the tin-foil and head outside for your one hour of exercise please. Your garbage is clogging up this thread.
Everything about this situation so far has resulted in the worst thing happening. Nothing has improved from day 1. Thinking of how the situation could further spiral out of control isn't scaremongering. It's called thinking outside the box, and planning accordingly.
Whilst I don't agree with everything Xeptu has said, they are bang on the money on more than a few points.
Have a good think about this 'out there idea'.
Whats the backup plan if internal borders stay closed? Business leaders will next push for the PM to hold an urgent referendum on a vote to become a republic. A president elect will then have the power to dissolve states, and the power states have over their own borders.
Yes votes in a referendum from NSW + VIC alone would out number No votes from WA + NT + SA + QLD + TAS.
Whilst I don't agree with everything Xeptu has said, they are bang on the money on more than a few points.
Have a good think about this 'out there idea'.
Whats the backup plan if internal borders stay closed? Business leaders will next push for the PM to hold an urgent referendum on a vote to become a republic. A president elect will then have the power to dissolve states, and the power states have over their own borders.
Yes votes in a referendum from NSW + VIC alone would out number No votes from WA + NT + SA + QLD + TAS.
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Considering what other airlines have done around the world and even here in our backyard letting crews go. If QF, JQ, or any QF group felt the need to cut cost and do CR wouldn't it have happened already?! holding on to tech crew and cabin crew will allow QF group to come back quickly as demand increases. AJ has an opportunity here if he can hold on to as many as possible there is a void in this neck of the woods which we can capitalize on. Virgin will be smaller for them to keep up with QF they have to re employ the redundant crew not sure how that works but I would think it would include all steps from induction then the type rating for senior redundant WB crew back to NB, thats not as easy as recalling crews off stand down.
Long term stand down still cost the company accruals of certain leave which I am sure most are using quicker than they're accruing anyway it will leave the group with out that over head moving forward. I am sure everyone here can agree on one thing, domestic travel will come back quickly once borders open again especially Victorians (ones that have money at least) wanting to go on a holiday, they have been through hell. International will go off with a bang once that is allowed Aussies love traveling and they cant wait to.
Long term stand down still cost the company accruals of certain leave which I am sure most are using quicker than they're accruing anyway it will leave the group with out that over head moving forward. I am sure everyone here can agree on one thing, domestic travel will come back quickly once borders open again especially Victorians (ones that have money at least) wanting to go on a holiday, they have been through hell. International will go off with a bang once that is allowed Aussies love traveling and they cant wait to.
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When a company enters administration, the board looses control of the airline and the executive are effectively under control of the administrator to run the day to day ops. Usually, every director including the chairman and the majority of the executive loose their jobs. It’s a last resort for the board for this reason. No one wants to loose their job. I’m sure we can all relate to that at the moment. Virgin are an exception because Scurrah is widely seen as a good ceo who inherited a company in need of a turnaround who got unlikely with the timing, so he’s probably going to be around to run the recovery.
Can anyone really imagine AJ and rest of them really handing over control of the company that had made them all insanely rich unless it’s an absolute last resort?
Can anyone really imagine AJ and rest of them really handing over control of the company that had made them all insanely rich unless it’s an absolute last resort?
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When a company enters administration, the board looses control of the airline and the executive are effectively under control of the administrator to run the day to day ops. Usually, every director including the chairman and the majority of the executive loose their jobs. It’s a last resort for the board for this reason. No one wants to loose their job. I’m sure we can all relate to that at the moment. Virgin are an exception because Scurrah is widely seen as a good ceo who inherited a company in need of a turnaround who got unlikely with the timing, so he’s probably going to be around to run the recovery.
Can anyone really imagine AJ and rest of them really handing over control of the company that had made them all insanely rich unless it’s an absolute last resort?
Can anyone really imagine AJ and rest of them really handing over control of the company that had made them all insanely rich unless it’s an absolute last resort?
Well lets throw open the hard questions for debate then. At no time have I suggested QF will go into receivership, in fact I'll go on record as saying that is highly unlikely.
I fail to see how I'm scaremongering, I have no vested interest either way, I hope the national carrier survives and I'm sure it will, but not what it was. It's in a better position than virgin and that good be it's saving grace.
I am on record as saying, do nothing with respect to decisions until jobkeeper ends.
I don't see airline demand being much greater that 50% domestically and 20% Internationally for the next 4 to 5 years, happy to debate that, but IMHO that's a reasonable forecast, given we haven't even started to recover from covid and there's still a couple of years of deep recession to weather yet.
Now put yourself in the CEO's position, optimism aside, what do you do with 50% of your staff you don't need for the next few years. Lets see which are viable solutions.
I fail to see how I'm scaremongering, I have no vested interest either way, I hope the national carrier survives and I'm sure it will, but not what it was. It's in a better position than virgin and that good be it's saving grace.
I am on record as saying, do nothing with respect to decisions until jobkeeper ends.
I don't see airline demand being much greater that 50% domestically and 20% Internationally for the next 4 to 5 years, happy to debate that, but IMHO that's a reasonable forecast, given we haven't even started to recover from covid and there's still a couple of years of deep recession to weather yet.
Now put yourself in the CEO's position, optimism aside, what do you do with 50% of your staff you don't need for the next few years. Lets see which are viable solutions.
Well lets throw open the hard questions for debate then. At no time have I suggested QF will go into receivership, in fact I'll go on record as saying that is highly unlikely.
I fail to see how I'm scaremongering, I have no vested interest either way, I hope the national carrier survives and I'm sure it will, but not what it was. It's in a better position than virgin and that good be it's saving grace.
I am on record as saying, do nothing with respect to decisions until jobkeeper ends.
I don't see airline demand being much greater that 50% domestically and 20% Internationally for the next 4 to 5 years, happy to debate that, but IMHO that's a reasonable forecast, given we haven't even started to recover from covid and there's still a couple of years of deep recession to weather yet.
Now put yourself in the CEO's position, optimism aside, what do you do with 50% of your staff you don't need for the next few years. Lets see which are viable solutions.
I fail to see how I'm scaremongering, I have no vested interest either way, I hope the national carrier survives and I'm sure it will, but not what it was. It's in a better position than virgin and that good be it's saving grace.
I am on record as saying, do nothing with respect to decisions until jobkeeper ends.
I don't see airline demand being much greater that 50% domestically and 20% Internationally for the next 4 to 5 years, happy to debate that, but IMHO that's a reasonable forecast, given we haven't even started to recover from covid and there's still a couple of years of deep recession to weather yet.
Now put yourself in the CEO's position, optimism aside, what do you do with 50% of your staff you don't need for the next few years. Lets see which are viable solutions.
crikey man we had that for a blip just recently
if vaccine doesn't come soon a natural adjustment will occur imo
Nunc est bibendum
They require a majority of voters in a majority of states. It’s very possible for NSW and VIC (and other yes voters in other states) to dwarf the ‘no’ vote but unless the majority of states are carried for the affirmative the constitutional amendment is voted down. There have been five occasions when the ‘yes’ vote was in the majority when considered nationally but the states were not and hence the amendment didn’t get up.
