QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

[krismiler]

Are there any Pilots who bid for reserve the entire roster and just fly once a month to stay current? Senior men in some airlines could draw full salary for staying home, they just lost out on allowances.

[Xeptu]

I remain absolutely amazed at what some of you guys believe is going to happen next.

[Ragnor]

Give us your rundown Xeptu.

[ruprecht]

Originally Posted by Ragnor

Give us your rundown Xeptu.

I’m pretty sure it involves shooting someone in the face.

[Telfer86]

If someone is claiming a medical condition that they don't have , only so many options such as back , psych etc

A GP has to refer to specialists after shortish period & that gets harder to bung it on

Not sure what rights a company has to not accept medical certificates and require reviews by other Specialists/GPs for sick leave,
they certainly can for workers comp, - get medical reviews ,use surveillance etc . Would be surprising if they just have to blindly accept certificates
from interesting Docs for long term sick leave, sounds like QF wasn't too fussed ,do other groups of employees do similar ?

Would be great to see you guys get back in the air, but unfortunately our State & Territory leaders are living out some kind of fantasy , just loving that border control

Think your CEO is warming you up for more redundancies & likely amending T&Cs talking about hard decisions & the cost advantage of new Virgin, long term stand down
comes with substantial costs. After a couple of years on stand down you have almost paid the costs of a CR for the 500 or so joiners from 2016

[normanton]

Originally Posted by Telfer86

If someone is claiming a medical condition that they don't have , only so many options such as back , psych etc

A GP has to refer to specialists after shortish period & that gets harder to bung it on

Not sure what rights a company has to not accept medical certificates and require reviews by other Specialists/GPs for sick leave,
they certainly can for workers comp, - get medical reviews ,use surveillance etc . Would be surprising if they just have to blindly accept certificates
from interesting Docs for long term sick leave, sounds like QF wasn't too fussed ,do other groups of employees do similar ?

Would be great to see you guys get back in the air, but unfortunately our State & Territory leaders are living out some kind of fantasy , just loving that border control

Think your CEO is warming you up for more redundancies & likely amending T&Cs talking about hard decisions & the cost advantage of new Virgin, long term stand down
comes with substantial costs. After a couple of years on stand down you have almost paid the costs of a CR for the 500 or so joiners from 2016

Yep agreed.

The "In the news" email this morning says it all really.

".......the Qantas group faces more tough decisions in the weeks ahead and that there will unfortunately be more job losses."

Take the CR immunity while it's available.

[Ragnor]

Making 6000 redundant already, seeking concessions in pilots EBA (at JQ anyway)to “help the company prevent pilot redundancies” makes me wonder after reading that from AJ why would we agree to anything to help them out if it’s going to happen anyway.

[Arthur D]

I would suggest the Group CEO is just getting started.

Brace, Brace, Brace

[Buster Hyman]

Originally Posted by Arthur D

I would suggest the Group CEO is just getting started.

You tink?

[Telfer86]

Weren't the JQ negotiating group dithering to much allowed the company to drag it out & out & out in very strong economic times
mid 2018 & 2019. When did the last agreement expire ? Should have just been more pragmatic & got a deal done without asking for "iron-clad" guarantees
& thinking you would get everything you asked for ? Who botched it ? (in terms of the slowness of negotiations) was it AFAP ?, other unions/associations or JQ pilot committee

The QF guys got a great deal getting EBA10 approved (correct ?) this year , pay rises etc

It was almost unbelievable to see the company proceed & push to get this done back in March when Covid was exploding around the world

Why couldn't they see at that point that Sunrise was now Sundowner ?

The tide is way out , big Tsunami barreling in & the response is - let's give everyone a pay rise

Rookie error by QF management

[Buster Hyman]

Originally Posted by Telfer86

Weren't the JQ negotiating group dithering to much allowed the company to drag it out & out & out in very strong economic times
mid 2018 & 2019. When did the last agreement expire ? Should have just been more pragmatic & got a deal done without asking for "iron-clad" guarantees
& thinking you would get everything you asked for ? Who botched it ? (in terms of the slowness of negotiations) was it AFAP ?, other unions/associations or JQ pilot committee

It's a two way street surely? I've never been involved in an EBA negotiation, but if it's dragged out for so long already, drag it out further on current conditions until the timing or market conditions are more favorable. Happy to be 'educated' if I've got this wrong.

[C441]

The tide is way out , big Tsunami barreling in & the response is - let's give everyone a pay rise
Rookie error by QF management

Maybe not if the A380 doesn't return and the 330 fleet is reduced significantly. They've now got a wage and conditions agreement significantly more favourable than they would otherwise have anticipated when things return to even a modicum of normality - especially when they won't stand pilots up until they can justify the expense. Don't forget this agreement will be halfway to expiry by the time things even look like 'normal' and if they get their way, 'variations' will have been proposed and voted on, precisely developed to ensure a majority will support them.

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by Ragnor

Give us your rundown Xeptu.

There's probably not much point, but there will be no re-assignments and no re-training, the rest you can work out for yourself.

[Poto]

Originally Posted by Xeptu

There's probably not much point, but there will be no re-assignments and no re-training, the rest you can work out for yourself.

The rest is continued stand downs until things improve. And they will improve at some point.

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by Poto

The rest is continued stand downs until things improve. And they will improve at some point.

That's redundancy

[C441]

That's redundancy

Except for one small matter.
Redundancy involves payouts.
Indefinite stand-down costs nothing other than leave accrual.

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by C441

Except for one small matter.
Redundancy involves payouts.
Indefinite stand-down costs nothing other than leave accrual and that's significantly less than any redundancy payout.

And how long will either party do that, 5 years, 10 years

[1A_Please]

At some point, a person on permanent stand down will look for a career elsewhere and have to resign from the airline. In theory, this would allow the airline to avoid redundancy. I cannot see that this will be tolerated and someone will test the stand-downs in court and force QF to either re-employ or payout redundancy entitlements as per the relevant EA.

[C441]

Originally Posted by 1A_Please

....someone will test the stand-downs in court and force QF to either re-employ or payout redundancy entitlements as per the relevant EA.

Probably, but the difficulty is that neither the EA or Fair Work place any defined time limit on stand-downs, so it comes down to an argument over what constitutes conditions beyond the employer’s control unless another avenue can be found.

[Ragnor]

One would have to think long term stand down is far better than the alternative, I don't really understand why everyone is having a problem with it (except for over 60ish you would want to be CR most likely). I for one prefer long term stand down it is costing me money but thats easily managed by getting a job and when domestic kicks off its just a simple email to me and off I go.