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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 18th Jul 2020, 08:35
  #941 (permalink)  

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Well, one door closes....

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/i...20-7?r=US&IR=T

Icelandair announced Friday that it would be laying off all its flight attendants, ending a labour dispute with the crew members’ union that began last month.
In the unprecedented move, the airline said it planned to have its pilots temporarily assume flight attendants’ roles overseeing the safety of those onboard, starting July 20.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 08:50
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Originally Posted by Lookleft
I tell you what they won't do, and that is consider anything else but the survival of the company. Individual circumstance and position on a seniority list will be way down on their list of priorities.
That comment goes for all airlines, they don’t care who is number one or has been loyal for 30yrs. All about SURVIVAL..
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 09:17
  #943 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
It’s good to see the JQ boys and girls can squabble about who should get made redundant as well as our QF colleagues. Who said there was no equality within the group!

just remember JQ peeps, unlike QF, management haven’t even offered us VR, let alone forcing CR so I think we’re jumping at shadows a touch.

I prefer the hypothetical conversation though than the real scenario, hopefully we never find out what the company would do if push comes to shove.

NZ Jq pilots facing redundancy.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 09:23
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Originally Posted by nvfr
NZ Jq pilots facing redundancy.
my apologies to our colleagues in NZ, yes that was an oversight on my behalf.

I should’ve specified ‘Aus EBA’ pilots haven’t had any redundancies announced and that they shouldn’t be jumping at shadows just yet.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 09:48
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What of Jetconnect? They fly only international sectors, there are enough mainline crew to operate the Tasman when it starts up again. If the surplus is in ‘LH’ and our colleagues at JQNZ are facing redundancy, how are JC sliding under the radar? It’s all been very quiet.....

BTW...I’m not saying I think they should be made redundant before anyone kicks off!
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 10:18
  #946 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gazza mate
Is SH immune from CR? Someone mentioned they are because they’re covered by their own separate agreement. It is helpful however, to understand that the two agreements are not quite as separate as first appears. The SH agreement which was born well after the LH agreement, has integrated some of the clauses from LH. The integration award provides the link. Redundancy is one example.

The SH agreement says redundancy provisions are called up from the integration award. The integration award says redundancy is as per the LH agreement, which states that CR is “last on first off”. Therefore, the SH and LH agreement both say that CR is “last on first off” for all Qantas pilots hired after September 1992.

I suspect the company actually know this but it doesn’t help with the narrative they are trying to push. They seem to want everyone in LH (junior and senior) to be fearful for their jobs and to rush into LWOP.
Dont ask for advice on this forum, that’s my advice. The older have a sense of entitlement. Read your EBA line for line paragraph for paragraph.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 11:26
  #947 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gazza mate
Is SH immune from CR? Someone mentioned they are because they’re covered by their own separate agreement. It is helpful however, to understand that the two agreements are not quite as separate as first appears. The SH agreement which was born well after the LH agreement, has integrated some of the clauses from LH. The integration award provides the link. Redundancy is one example.

The SH agreement says redundancy provisions are called up from the integration award. The integration award says redundancy is as per the LH agreement, which states that CR is “last on first off”. Therefore, the SH and LH agreement both say that CR is “last on first off” for all Qantas pilots hired after September 1992.

I suspect the company actually know this but it doesn’t help with the narrative they are trying to push. They seem to want everyone in LH (junior and senior) to be fearful for their jobs and to rush into LWOP.

‘genuine redundancy’......

if SH were to be included, they would be eligible for VR...no one, not even AIPA, seems to be pushing for this. I suspect AIPA know they will lose any challenge...but a challenge must be made nonetheless. Will probably lose some SH members along the way. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to this. I also suspect.....it won’t.

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Old 18th Jul 2020, 23:14
  #948 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by normanton
Have a good hard think about why you rarely see junior crew posting on Qrewroom. Once you've worked it out let us know.
Junior pilots to do post on Qrewroom. They don't get involved in the frequent self-righteous arguments that occur between a certain few, rather they just post their views and opinions. True some are probably wary because of the vitriol between a few regulars, but thankfully enough aren't intimidated and post providing rational opinions. I've posted on Qrewroom since roughly the end of my first year or start of my second year in the company. I have never felt threatened, intimidated, bullied or worried about my career, and have never had it brought up by another colleague. Likewise, I've never posted believing that what I was saying was 100% correct, and that mine was the only valid opinion on the matter. I've posted trying to add my opinion and see if others have a better reason or more knowledge on the matter. I've certainly never posted something like -

Originally Posted by normanton
God you talk some ****.
The simple fact is your posts are filled with arrogance, sarcasm and condescension to others. And like I said, you were silent here until just a few months ago where you suddenly went on a mission to prove everyone wrong, and yourself to be the only one right. Claiming that junior pilots don't post on Qrewroom is just a cop out for you. The simple fact is that if you posted in the same manner you post here your true colours would show. The one poster here who is letting their head and emotions get in the way is you, as is shown by the increasing frequency with which you have to keep telling others they are wrong. It has become noticeable in every post you make.

If you posted your argument rationally on Qrewroom maybe it would open the eyes of some, but also it would attract the attention of those with a far greater knowledge than you or I have with respect to the Award and it's workings, and the functioning of the company. The simple fact is posting on Qrewroom means you take ownership for your claims, not hiding under anonymity like you do here.


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Old 18th Jul 2020, 23:41
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If only you had an idea how many PMs I receive from people thanking me for bringing light to subjects they hadn’t though about. You would be gobsmacked!

Enjoy your continued stand down mmmbop. Hopefully you are here in the future so I can continue to read your obnoxious, sarcastic, condescending dribble.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 23:55
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Originally Posted by normanton
If only you had an idea how many PMs I receive from people thanking me for bringing light to subjects they hadn’t though about.
I have a fair idea...
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 00:52
  #951 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by normanton
If only you had an idea how many PMs I receive from people thanking me for bringing light to subjects they hadn’t though about. You would be gobsmacked!

Enjoy your continued stand down mmmbop. Hopefully you are here in the future so I can continue to read your obnoxious, sarcastic, condescending dribble.
Now that your ego has been adequately stroked via PM, is there any chance you can take your dribble elsewhere?
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 00:59
  #952 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by normanton
If only you had an idea how many PMs I receive from people thanking me for bringing light to subjects they hadn’t though about. You would be gobsmacked!
I hear you. If only you had an idea of how many messages I receive from supermodels that want to date me, you too would be gobsmacked.

I won’t reveal them, I respect their privacy...
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 01:05
  #953 (permalink)  
 
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Lol. You lot make me laugh.

Senior crew scared **** that junior crew will be bypassed in the event of CR.

Secure your job. Take LWOP.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 01:17
  #954 (permalink)  
 
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Hook
line
sinker
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 01:22
  #955 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by normanton
If only you had an idea how many PMs I receive from people thanking me for bringing light to subjects they hadn’t though about. You would be gobsmacked!.
Omg, we recruited Donald Trump!
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 01:23
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Originally Posted by normanton
Lol. You lot make me laugh.

Senior crew scared **** that junior crew will be bypassed in the event of CR.

Secure your job. Take LWOP.

Geeze and people wonder why "89" ended so badly.

Looks like nothing learned in the last 39 years.

Cheers Hoss58
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 01:42
  #957 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by maggot
Hook
line
sinker
Secure
your
job

The entire argument about just waiting it out and take LWOP later is flawed.

Tino has said multiple times that VR/CR will be used to deal with the long term surplus. LWOP will only be used to deal with the short-medium term surplus. If there is not enough senior crew who take VR, then it's game over for the junior crew. There will be no LWOP offer, you are a surplus, and will receive a CR notice. The CR payout for a junior SO is laughable compared to a VR payout they are offering.

What I find ironic is that during the EBA negotiations, the majority of established crew were saying not to believe a word Tino says! Now hes saying "we don't want to do CR's", and you lot believe him! Have a look at whats happening around the aviation world people. Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.

The only date any junior crew here should be waiting for is the 23rd July with the Jobkeeper announcement. If they extend it and it is allowed to be claimed while on LWOP, its an easy decision. If the government doesn't allow it to be taken while on LWOP, then junior crew need to decide if they need the money now, or if they can find work elsewhere while on LWOP.

Don't listen to senior crew telling you to "wait it out". By the time you wait it out, and the CR decision is made its too late. By then the senior crew who gave you that advice would have disappeared onto a tropical island whilst sipping on a cocktail knowing the buffer of pilots they have beneath them. Lambs to the slaughter.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 01:43
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31 years. Hoss

Jobkeeper on LWOP that the employee requested vs involuntary Stand down, highly doubt that would eventuate.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 02:12
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Thanks -41.

I ran out of fingers and toes.

Cheers Hoss58
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 02:21
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Originally Posted by normanton
Lol. You lot make me laugh.

Senior crew scared **** that junior crew will be bypassed in the event of CR.

Secure your job. Take LWOP.
Although your intentions are unknown, I consider your persistence on this topic a disservice. We will not agree, you will have the last word, and the world will keep turning. Senior vs Junior in tough times like this is a construct you appear to push. The prevailing attitude amongst crew in Qantas in tough times, as seen many times before (from both Flt ops mgmt and pilots actually) is to look after one another. We, at times, begrudgingly accepted assigned leave, took other jobs, went on flexilines as allowed or enforced by the EA. Options are limited this time but there is still so much water to flow under the bridge. Point is, everyone did their part. Of course there were the 2% of dicks.

This is terribly tough times. I feel you campaign for dissent, fear and division even if it’s not your intention, but perhaps feel justified that you’re spreading information for an informed choice.

If 200 pilots took LWOP a part of me would be happy because it would be good for QF bottom line and I care about QF survival. However, LWOP should not be taken out of fear and the premis of the company’s LWOP offer should be thoroughly rejected. I feel you encourage disunity to stoke the embers of selfishness and I instead wish you were passionate about unity for the greater good.

Last edited by crosscutter; 19th Jul 2020 at 06:07.
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