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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 27th Jun 2020, 06:03
  #521 (permalink)  
 
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So the latest on JQ “surplus” Perth and Newcastle crews seem to be (in a nut shell), give us 2 years of a concessional EBA and we might not make those crews redundant. Can’t say I’m surprised but seriously can this guy give an already very stressed workforce a break.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 06:55
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Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
With QF now a very different airline going forward do we need 3 CEO’s?

Surely we should make at least 1 redundant. Andrew David has been MIA (couldn’t phone in to at least 1 webinar over the last 8 weeks wtf?)
And then we have Tino, CEO of a non existent International.
Why have they ever needed 3 X ceo?
Maybe the title entitles them to more pay without being scrutinised by shareholders etc.
On the point of having large cash reserves,seems contradictory to go & mortgage every aircraft you can & then do an equity raising,paying interest on borrowed money & pushing the share price lower is an interesting way to save money.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 07:07
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Originally Posted by blubak
Why have they ever needed 3 X ceo?
Maybe the title entitles them to more pay without being scrutinised by shareholders etc.
On the point of having large cash reserves,seems contradictory to go & mortgage every aircraft you can & then do an equity raising,paying interest on borrowed money & pushing the share price lower is an interesting way to save money.
Try 5

Andrew David - Domestic and Freight
Tino - International
Olivia - Loyalty
Gareth Evans - Jetstar
And Alan Joyce, CEO of CEO's.

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-...eadership.html
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 07:15
  #524 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by unobtanium
Try 5

Andrew David - Domestic and Freight
Tino - International
Olivia - Loyalty
Gareth Evans - Jetstar
And Alan Joyce, CEO of CEO's.

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-...eadership.html
The more the merrier!
We been everywhere men.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 07:17
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https://taipeitimes.com/News/biz/arc.../26/2003738867

Hard times still ahead.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:08
  #526 (permalink)  
 
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I do expect some equity to be destroyed during a pandemic, the outflow of $40m a week is testament to that. There’s nothing you, I or AJ can do about that.

Struth 40m a week, as a comparison during Ansett's last years they were losing 7m a week. The value of money in 20 years. I realise different era.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:08
  #527 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by armchairpilot94116
Thanks for the update from the Taipei Times. Very insightful.

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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:28
  #528 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080
I do expect some equity to be destroyed during a pandemic, the outflow of $40m a week is testament to that. There’s nothing you, I or AJ can do about that.

Struth 40m a week, as a comparison during Ansett's last years they were losing 7m a week. The value of money in 20 years. I realise different era.
There is a difference to outgoings of $40m a week to losses of $7m a week.

Salary costs alone were abut $86m a week(4,5bn a year) before covid - thats before you take into account the other costs like office rent, aircraft, overheads etc.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 09:16
  #529 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by unobtanium
Try 5

Andrew David - Domestic and Freight
Tino - International
Olivia - Loyalty
Gareth Evans - Jetstar
And Alan Joyce, CEO of CEO's.

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/qantas-...eadership.html
There’s also a CEO of Associated Airlines and Services?
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:53
  #530 (permalink)  
 
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What is the real number of redundancies here? I think 250 is well short. JQ have already threaten of mass lay offs Given a quoted email from the union which will happen even if the new EBA is signed end of July. QF surely will have to make more cuts to its international and domestic 737 crew.
Now that VA have very deep pockets with Bain I would think they will come out smaller but stronger than QF
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 21:33
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
What is the real number of redundancies here? I think 250 is well short. JQ have already threaten of mass lay offs Given a quoted email from the union which will happen even if the new EBA is signed end of July. QF surely will have to make more cuts to its international and domestic 737 crew.
Now that VA have very deep pockets with Bain I would think they will come out smaller but stronger than QF
why?
shorthaul? How so? Rotating stand down with low mgh.... why cuts?
long haul? Indefinite stand down costs little.
redundency costs alot.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 21:38
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
What is the real number of redundancies here? I think 250 is well short. JQ have already threaten of mass lay offs Given a quoted email from the union which will happen even if the new EBA is signed end of July. QF surely will have to make more cuts to its international and domestic 737 crew.
Now that VA have very deep pockets with Bain I would think they will come out smaller but stronger than QF
Have to agree with that!
When i first saw the figure of 220-250 pilots it seemed very low,with 12 380s & 6 747s gone the figure for those 2 fleets alone would exceed the numbers they are quoting & then theres 330s,787s & the jq 787s,just doesnt add up.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 21:44
  #533 (permalink)  
 
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QF SH pilots are forecast to all be stood up by the end of this year. There will be no changes to SH. In fact, there has been some discussion about allowing additional LH crew to be trained onto 737 temporarily to save some jobs. Obviously that’s a fair way off and any change would need to be voted on by the SH crew. This would be a mechanism to save junior crew, not to allow old mate 4 eng capt to extend his career for a few more years.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 22:16
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Someone in the webinar made the comment of a LWOP would count towards the 190 total. Well not really. If 190 pilots from the 380 take LWOP then 2-3 years down the track we have the exact same problem again (minus retirements).
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 22:18
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Originally Posted by maggot
why?
shorthaul? How so? Rotating stand down with low mgh.... why cuts?
long haul? Indefinite stand down costs little.
redundency costs alot.
Given forecast there is no need for 2019 crew levels for 2021 operation people are forgetting the worse has not hit the economy yet, unemployment is close to 8% now this will be worse after job keeper ends, also there is no prospect of borders opening up anytime soon especially WA, Tuesday we will find out about QLD but wouldn't hold my breath then those 15,000 numbers AJ said gets re worked. When we go into 2021 this will be scary. NT I commend their approach making everyone sign a declaration rest of the country should be adopting this maybe this would get things moving quicker.
Stand down with roster on roster off does cost more than people allow. You have AL, LSL accrual then you have EPs, sims then paxing for sims then a hotel room human factors, DGs, cost of an ASIC cost of parking the list goes on more than you think. So the 250 is most likely just what Jetstar will do, how many LH and SH pilots will QF fund with a down turn of pax numbers. Just saying 250 is very far from the truth.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 23:33
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Originally Posted by normanton
Someone in the webinar made the comment of a LWOP would count towards the 190 total. Well not really. If 190 pilots from the 380 take LWOP then 2-3 years down the track we have the exact same problem again (minus retirements).
costs the company nothing (saves actually), kicks the can down the road til maybe theyre needed. Good (band aid) solution but not sure how many lwop's there'll be
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 23:36
  #537 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
how many LH and SH pilots will QF fund with a down turn of pax numbers. Just saying 250 is very far from the truth.
You tell us. What figure would you be satisfied with?

You have been provided a figure with reasons behind it. If you call bulls!t then I suspect no figure that is given will be adequate.
There wouldn't be a QF/J*/VA pilot in the bottom third or quarter of their respective lists that isn't looking over their shoulder right now.



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Old 29th Jun 2020, 00:07
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I doubt they’ll offer them 737 slots.
At the moment those LHaulers approaching 65 can’t rely on a 737 slot to keep going.
If there isn’t one there they can’t take it.
I bet the company will want that demographic to take the VR package.
Especially seeing that most of them are on the 74 and 380.
The bigger issue is how long can they keep them stood down.
I doubt a reasonable person would expect that to be three years?
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 00:17
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Originally Posted by Ragnor
What is the real number of redundancies here? I think 250 is well short. JQ have already threaten of mass lay offs Given a quoted email from the union which will happen even if the new EBA is signed end of July. QF surely will have to make more cuts to its international and domestic 737 crew.
Now that VA have very deep pockets with Bain I would think they will come out smaller but stronger than QF
I didn’t see any such email, unless you’re referring to the NZ operation communication regarding stand down provisions being included into their agreement.

So far the JQ pilot redundancies are around half a dozen F/Os from NZ and none from Australia. PER and NTL closing but those aircraft being redeployed to MEL & BNE.

Yes, Virgin will now have deep pockets, but they will likely be a more rational competitor with Bain steering them to a mid market carrier. In the Aus domestic market we already have Tiger gone, VA reducing to 40-50 737s, VA A330s gone.

My reading of the situation is that most of the shrinking of the domestic market will be absorbed by a downsized Virgin, and QF group should return to a similiar capacity of 2019 by mid 2021. But that’s only my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 03:59
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Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE
I didn’t see any such email, unless you’re referring to the NZ operation communication regarding stand down provisions being included into their agreement.

So far the JQ pilot redundancies are around half a dozen F/Os from NZ and none from Australia. PER and NTL closing but those aircraft being redeployed to MEL & BNE.

Yes, Virgin will now have deep pockets, but they will likely be a more rational competitor with Bain steering them to a mid market carrier. In the Aus domestic market we already have Tiger gone, VA reducing to 40-50 737s, VA A330s gone.

My reading of the situation is that most of the shrinking of the domestic market will be absorbed by a downsized Virgin, and QF group should return to a similiar capacity of 2019 by mid 2021. But that’s only my opinion, I could be wrong.
ECAM I think Jetstar is in line for a big hit too, a lot of aircraft used to do Bali, Tasman and the pacific, and not from NZ. Just by numbers if you say just a fifth of the narrow body fleet was flying internationally that’s a lot of crew that have no work. It’s no use transferring airframes from PER to MEL if their flying doesn’t exist anymore. This is a time when all unions needs to work with management to try and save the careers of those near the bottom of the airlines respective lists. There’s just not enough flying domestically in Australia for the number of pilots, in any of the major airlines.

Respective unions have a massive job ahead of them to try and keep redundancies down.
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