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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 23rd Sep 2020, 12:16
  #1901 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post
The pax numbers to the point of departure decrease as no more transcon FIFO anymore - so the story is a net loss

Have a look at the adverts on seek for FIFO workers, all contractors now insisting you reside "in-state" (breaching the Constitution , like who cares ? ,
the States/Territories have been doing that from first day of Covid - Feds haven't acted for I would guess a number of reasons)
For the legally non aware (ie Telfer86) here's an article explaining the law:

Is it illegal under the constitution for a state to close its borders to other Australians?

The mining companies are requiring their workers in WA to be based in WA for the duration of this pandemic/border closures as otherwise they would be paying for a interstate worker's temporary accommodation costs for the duration of the emergency. That's because they aren't being allowed into the state for the duration of this emergency, as explained in the article.

Once the border restrictions are over as a consequence of the emergency being over then s117 kicks in and denying interstate workers the right to live where they want to is illegal. Employers can insist all they want but they can't require it.

That's called using facts from people who know what they're talking about to back up your argument Telfer, please try doing it instead of posting fearmongering rubbish to scare people.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 12:29
  #1902 (permalink)  
 
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I still can’t get passed the arrogance of McGowan claiming this ‘in state ‘ workforce.

eg: I work fifo from say , sydney . I’m now experienced at blowing things up and get a new gig which is subject to this requirement.

Worker takes job. Moves family to Perth. Worker still gets on a plane and flies to site for his swing. Family left in perth now with no support network, friends etc.

So the worker still fifos but the family suffers.

Apologies for drift.

Last edited by myshoutcaptain; 23rd Sep 2020 at 12:53.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 12:58
  #1903 (permalink)  
 
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So Dr Dre a few words from whoever at the ABC put that up is some kind of eminent legal opinion ? (they have among other things High Court Judges at the ABC these days ? Push button googs just has all the worlds wisdom)

Whether its lawful or not , doesn't really matter resource companies & contractors are demanding you live in state

What has already occurred in WA will happen in Qld soon

Joe Public can't take them on & this will effect quantum of domestic travel permanently

Last edited by Telfer86; 23rd Sep 2020 at 13:09.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 22:32
  #1904 (permalink)  
 
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WA tried this already , they need 7000 people to pick fruit and work in regional areas. Large campaign in all media forms - they had just over 400 applicants. Equates to $7 000 per person whom applied spent in advertising etc.

FIFO is not dead.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 23:08
  #1905 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by myshoutcaptain View Post
eg: I work fifo from say , sydney . I’m now experienced at blowing things up and get a new gig which is subject to this requirement.

Worker takes job. Moves family to Perth. Worker still gets on a plane and flies to site for his swing. Family left in perth now with no support network, friends etc.

So the worker still fifos but the family suffers.

Apologies for drift.
oh please, leaving Sydney for Perth is a blessing
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 00:59
  #1906 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Maggie Island View Post
oh please, leaving Sydney for Perth is a blessing
Indeed it is.

I think though, the underlying point is that while leaving the revolting mess that is Sydney (or Melbourne), for a new life in Perth is great, and many do find it a blessing, a move from Sydney to Newman, Hedland, Karratha, Pannawonica, Tom Price, etc is far less common. Therefore FIFO is not and will never be dead, at least not until until these towns grow all the amenities that the capitals have. And then, If you’re FIFO from Perth anyway, why not keep the missus happy and just commute from Sydney?
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 02:44
  #1907 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot View Post
Indeed it is.
If you’re FIFO from Perth anyway, why not keep the missus happy and just commute from Sydney?
Because…..

The mining companies are requiring their workers in WA to be based in WA for the duration of this pandemic/border closures as otherwise they would be paying for a interstate worker's temporary accommodation costs for the duration of the emergency. That's because they aren't being allowed into the state for the duration of this emergency, as explained in the article.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 03:44
  #1908 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by C441 View Post
Because…..

Did you miss my pint that FIFO is here to stay? Would you like to prove otherwise? Id hazard a guess not many People are moving their whole family to WA ‘for the duration of the pandemic’.

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Old 24th Sep 2020, 05:22
  #1909 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot View Post
Did you miss my pint that FIFO is here to stay? Would you like to prove otherwise? Id hazard a guess not many People are moving their whole family to WA ‘for the duration of the pandemic’.
I have no doubt that FIFO is here to stay, but from the wa.gov.au:

The categories of "exempt traveller" are set out in detail in the Directions. It is important that any person who is seeking to enter Western Australia reads and understands the categories of exempt traveller that are set out in the Directions. In summary, the categories include:
  • FIFO workers, subject to requirements to isolate for 14 days at an approved location at their employer's expense.
Thus you'd be spending 2 weeks of your 'time-off' back in WA in quarantine prior to recommencing your next period back at work. I'm not sure too many would find this reasonable if choosing to "keep the missus happy and just commute from Sydney". (Neither would their employer if they're footing the bill).

A few FIFO workers may, as did the Qantas pilots who commuted to the Perth base for the 330 and 787. They didn't have to quarantine for 14 days though although some might say it felt like it at times when on a blankline.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 06:19
  #1910 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by C441 View Post
I have no doubt that FIFO is here to stay, but from the wa.gov.au:

The categories of "exempt traveller" are set out in detail in the Directions. It is important that any person who is seeking to enter Western Australia reads and understands the categories of exempt traveller that are set out in the Directions. In summary, the categories include:
  • FIFO workers, subject to requirements to isolate for 14 days at an approved location at their employer's expense.
Thus you'd be spending 2 weeks of your 'time-off' back in WA in quarantine prior to recommencing your next period back at work. I'm not sure too many would find this reasonable if choosing to "keep the missus happy and just commute from Sydney". (Neither would their employer if they're footing the bill).

A few FIFO workers may, as did the Qantas pilots who commuted to the Perth base for the 330 and 787. They didn't have to quarantine for 14 days though although some might say it felt like it at times when on a blankline.
I was making a general point about people moving West for work, not necessarily due to the pandemic. Im well aware of the quarantine requirements, having done a number of 14 day periods myself. However, These militant border closures are temporary. Very few people are going to move their family across the country at great expense, away from relatives, schools, and other networks for something that could change within months, only to then leave them for two weeks at a time to go work up North.

Many people from the East (I say a majority), who do FIFO right now are just forgoing the visit home to the East to avoid the 14 day quarantine. Some havent seen their families since February/March.
They are dealing with the hardships, and hoping that the WA Government will eventually come to its senses and adopt a more reasonable approach.

The commute from the East will return when the hard state border softens. And it will, with some indications in the local rag today indicating that there's a chance it might be sooner than people think.

Last edited by ExtraShot; 24th Sep 2020 at 07:23.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 16:25
  #1911 (permalink)  
 
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Each to their own view

But I think the changes to FIFO are way more permanent, WA Govt isn't mucking around , BHP has actioned it all
Qld Govt likely to do similar , keep the $$$ in the state

FIFO workers from NSW/Vic can't even get to WA atm even with 14 days quarantine now

The other impact is going to be when state borders do open many organisations in places like WA/Qld/SA will have their own
criteria over & above "state" criteria. This happened earlier in the year when borders were still more open ie: students of ABC school in Perth or ABC
electricity company in Qld , that if any of their people travelled to NSW/Vic they would have to self isolate at home for 14 days (when no Govt requirement to do so)
Expect this to happen again

But the real impact on domestic travel is going to be the decisions already made by Corporates, they are reluctant to let their own people into their
own workplaces, they aren't going to be travelling, Public Service even more cautious

Why do people hoard FF points ?
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 22:42
  #1912 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Telfer86 View Post

Why do people hoard FF points ?

For the resumption in international travel of course
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 01:38
  #1913 (permalink)  
 
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But I think the changes to FIFO are way more permanent, WA Govt isn't mucking around
It will be permanent right up until the WA government has to actually start paying for their hard border.
McGowan will get called in for 'tea & biccies' with the Minerals Council next year if he is still thinks he's El Presidente of a Sovereign State. No Mining Company wants a captive workforce.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 14:03
  #1914 (permalink)  
 
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Only having Pilbara workers Who live in WA long term? No access for those East Coast Covid infected scum! Yeah.....Nah. Wages will go through the roof. McGowan will he read the riot act by his Masters. Including Jabba.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 14:49
  #1915 (permalink)  
 
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McGowan may not be perfect but from the East Coast , although a bit "stern" he seems to be consistent & steady

No jumping around we open when the rest of Australia opens, won't play favourites with different states etc - he said that from day one

The biggest threat I see to domestic travel is the ALP Socialist Left Govt(SLG) in Victoria and they will be receiving international arrivals again in November,
and yet again they will not be using the ADF. They will show the rest of Australia up, they will show you how to do it PC Melbournian style. The great man is already boasting about
a "Summer like no other" (got the you beaut tagline going) - I wonder what he has in mind. Apparently had quite a hissy fit when CMO said NSW had gold standard of contact tracing

In Melb it is very much the mad hatters tea party, the SLG believe they showed the rest of Australia up as they didn't compromise SL values , the key values
were social inclusion & diversity for Hotel Security & all security guards received diversity training, employment for marginalised foreign students achieved, contracts
awarded to security companies owned by minorities awarded. The quarantine results & outcomes to SLG just have no relevance , it's about the values and the process & the PC elements of the process were eye watering

Set back domestic travel by a couple of years & cost QF hundreds of millions, if not billions. Changes have occurred to how people work/travel & the market changes moves on, a lot of the damage is permanent. These guys will be responsible for any QF group pilot redundancies , QF management have nothing to do with it

Why oh why the Fed Govt would give the loony left in Vict another go at international quarantine - well I just don't know

Last edited by Telfer86; 26th Sep 2020 at 03:49.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 07:57
  #1916 (permalink)  
 
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"Never in the history of PPRuNe threads has so much dribble come from one person over so many posts."

Are you are on a performance bonus Telfer? Written in your KPI's depending how much bs you write per post?

As for calling the Victorian Government mad hatters..pot calling the kettle is the only thing that comes to mind.

Could someone who actually has something insightful as to what is happening with VR/CR/ER please get this thread back on track...please
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 08:45
  #1917 (permalink)  
 
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You beat me to it SG,

Yes, now that everyone here has proved to everybody here they more about wearing red ties, WA and FIFO, perhaps we could get back to,
“QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages”

Can anyone advise on the state of play re. ER, VR & EA?

Last edited by Qanchor; 26th Sep 2020 at 10:10.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 13:33
  #1918 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Qanchor View Post
You beat me to it SG,

Yes, now that everyone here has proved to everybody here they more about wearing red ties, WA and FIFO, perhaps we could get back to,
“QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages”

Can anyone advise on the state of play re. ER, VR & EA?
ER - Waiting on the ATO but should be finalised in a few weeks.

VR - Being worked through. Issues with the amount of training captains who express their interests. Worried it could have larger implications when the ramp up occurs. Confident all 188 will be accepted. Decision by Nov 7th.

EA - Anyone’s guess. Reduction in MGH is the main key to allow more to be stood up when the time comes. SH EA variations are also being discussed.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 13:48
  #1919 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
Issues with the amount of training captains who express their interests. Worried it could have larger implications when the ramp up occurs.
Nothing a nice big contractor deal couldn't fix though.
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 21:35
  #1920 (permalink)  
 
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Cheers Fuji
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