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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 11th Aug 2020, 23:17
  #1281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Here and there
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I love the that career advice is being handed out regarding taking LWOP, risking not taking LWOP and receiving a CR etc yet you can't even agree on how long the company can keep you stood down for. I hope people aren't basing their decisions based on some of the "facts" on here.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 23:20
  #1282 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by Afterburner1 View Post
the "facts" on here.
😂😂😂😂😂 when have there ever been any ďFACTSĒ on here??😂😂😂😂
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 23:24
  #1283 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wingspar View Post
Why would you be thinking about LWOP if you donít have another job locked in?
Once youíre on LWOP the company washes their hands of you. You should hope that your new job sticks too because you canít go running back to QF if you want to.
Im getting the funny feeling that QF know that they canít run stand downs in the long term. I donít know how they are going to get around it, or afford it, hence the reason to get rid of so many now....and reduce MGH!
but tino said they could!
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 23:39
  #1284 (permalink)  
 
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Normanton- where is your latest update? I need some guidance
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 00:11
  #1285 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by maggot View Post
but tino said they could!
So many times you here them say, ď...you cannot be usefully employedĒ.

Next time someone should ask them to finish the sentence as laid out in the EA and the FWA?

....you cannot be usefully employed because....???
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 00:17
  #1286 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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This will not end well , still many wide bodies flying to Australia, they may have freight on them but we donít really know .
Meanwhile Qantas Long Haul is grounded , no opportunity for them it seems .
Or they are planning to shut down long haul and start it from scratch in a Year or 2 , the savings and new contract would be enormous.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 01:06
  #1287 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Maharashtra
Posts: 149
Couple of things.

Qf Longhaul is not grounded. There are A330s flying selected freight charters overseas and some domestic-predominantly east coast to Perth. Itís extremely disappointing that the government is awarding the remainder of the freight contracts to overseas government owned companies. But thatís another conversation I guess.

Normanton. Iíve read through your diatribe long enough without commenting. For goodness sake. You joined under an EBA. That agreement has provisions that basically say last on first off. Itís not an entitlement senior people are forcing on junior people. Itís the agreement that every pilot who accepts employment at Qantas works under. So stop this nonsense about senior people out to get junior people. You accepted an offer of employment at the company to work under this agreement. When you joined there were going to be people senior to you who in the event of CR would see you leave before them. Accept it and move on. Regardless of where anyone is on the list, no one wants to see any of their colleagues put through the stress of CR. If you believe taking LWOP will prevent you or your colleagues from CR then fantastic. Take it and be be on you way. But please stop this tantrum and carry about senior people out to get junior folk.

Last edited by regitaekilthgiwt; 12th Aug 2020 at 01:55.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 02:24
  #1288 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Oz
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Is the EA worth the paper itís written on if the company goes into administration. Letís face it, the debt levels are higher than VAís when it went into administration. Add ongoing lease payments and employee entitlements the debt levels surely are north of 10 billion, with insufficient revenue in the short to medium term to service this debt. Company burning 40 million a week before the failed ramp up due to ongoing boarder closures and the numerous executives pay back on the books albeit at 85%( $1,000,000 @ 85% =$850,000 - thanks for taking one for the team guys). Interesting EOFY result announcement coming given the need to artificially inflate the share price for the 100 year anniversary. Senior, junior or LWOP, I think we are all in trouble. Hoping for a vaccine and praying itís not too late.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 02:58
  #1289 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Afterburner1 View Post
ÖÖ.yet you can't even agree on how long the company can keep you stood down for.
There's a reason for that. Both the EA and FW have quite non-specific phraseology with regard to stand-down. In effect they state that a company can leave staff stood-down whilst there is no work for those staff perform for circumstances beyond the company's control. Depending upon your point of view this can mean, in the Qantas Longhaul case, that staff can be stood-down until the first regular scheduled international service is planned through to until such time as any specific fleet has sufficient flying to stand-up all of the crew. The Pilots would prefer the former, the company the latter and any number of interpretations in between.

It's hardly surprising then that there is disagreement amongst the group (and a few not affected) as to how long Qantas can keep crew stood-down.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 03:38
  #1290 (permalink)  
 
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188 is the number
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 04:22
  #1291 (permalink)  
 
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I thought “42” was the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything ?
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 04:26
  #1292 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by C441 View Post
There's a reason for that. Both the EA and FW have quite non-specific phraseology with regard to stand-down. In effect they state that a company can leave staff stood-down whilst there is no work for those staff perform for circumstances beyond the company's control. Depending upon your point of view this can mean, in the Qantas Longhaul case, that staff can be stood-down until the first regular scheduled international service is planned through to until such time as any specific fleet has sufficient flying to stand-up all of the crew. The Pilots would prefer the former, the company the latter and any number of interpretations in between.

It's hardly surprising then that there is disagreement amongst the group (and a few not affected) as to how long Qantas can keep crew stood-down.
The legislation makes no reference for how long. So it can be interpreted anyway you like, that doesn't mean it will be so.
When the legislation was written it was never envisaged that it would be needed for more than a few weeks or all that many impacted. Essentially it's a vehicle by which a company can impose upon you use of leave entitlements without having applied for leave. In many companies they do that anyway these days, for example the christmas shutdown period. All employees are on annual leave that week whether you want to be or not. A draft amendment to that would be in the works, expect that around the end of jobkeeper. Your workplace agreement does not supersede any state or federal legislation. You'll find that in the preamble in the opening statements.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 04:49
  #1293 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dragon man View Post
188 is the number
Enough so CR won't be an issue. Nor will hundreds need to take LWOP, although I think quite a few probably will. So a lot of posts on this thread have just become quite meaningless.

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Old 12th Aug 2020, 05:13
  #1294 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Enough so CR won't be an issue. Nor will hundreds need to take LWOP, although I think quite a few probably will. So a lot of posts on this thread have just become quite meaningless.
Hold your horses....we will just have to wait for the latest Normanton update for clear guidance and clarification on the situation. He must be crunching the numbers as we speak.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 05:43
  #1295 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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So the domino has fallen just as many wise old heads have suggested. Next Early Retirement packages.

Short haul pilots, many of whom were wanting a VR package are still waiting.

Stood down provisions and JobKeeper greatly mitigates the short term surplus.

Of course the company are falling over themselves to help the LWOP decision. How many CR’s are required before the first SH Pilot is (potentially) affected? (The answer is around 15) A solid floor to CR numbers exists right there because of transfer of business restrictions. How would Network expand if a SH Pilot is CR’d? Oh that’s right...that’s not the company’s interpretation. Good luck. Take LWOP if it suits, otherwise sit tight.


Last edited by crosscutter; 12th Aug 2020 at 06:36.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 05:49
  #1296 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t think Network will expand to rapidly for the foreseeable future, unless they get a 320 sim in WA or add 14 days of hotel quarantine to their cost base. Even then Ansett sim centre will be closed for as long as stage 4 in VIC go on as mentioned by Dan this could go past Sep if ppl don’t start doing the what they’re told.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 06:06
  #1297 (permalink)  
 
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Not really my point. Rather, as soon as SH Pilot is passed over for CR a court case the company could do without...one which they could lose...would probably occur. If CR occurred in pure seniority order and that includes SH pilots, that leaves recruitment in Network and Cobham stalled until that SH Pilot is reemployed in their old position. Dogs breakfast...you bet.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 06:13
  #1298 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by C441 View Post
There's a reason for that. Both the EA and FW have quite non-specific phraseology with regard to stand-down. In effect they state that a company can leave staff stood-down whilst there is no work for those staff perform for circumstances beyond the company's control. Depending upon your point of view this can mean, in the Qantas Longhaul case, that staff can be stood-down until the first regular scheduled international service is planned through to until such time as any specific fleet has sufficient flying to stand-up all of the crew. The Pilots would prefer the former, the company the latter and any number of interpretations in between.

It's hardly surprising then that there is disagreement amongst the group (and a few not affected) as to how long Qantas can keep crew stood-down.
which means it may come to a political decision- qf seem to be negotiating a defensive position for this to happen (MGH). Why else would they not just stand crew up/down as required?

188. Well done to whomever crunch the numbers on the offer, on the money eh

Last edited by maggot; 12th Aug 2020 at 07:35.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 06:21
  #1299 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by crosscutter View Post
Not really my point. Rather, as soon as SH Pilot is passed over for CR a court case the company could do without...one which they could lose...would probably occur.. Dogs breakfast...you bet.
Not really.

As a lot of people have now quite correctly predicted, CR will not be required, so any issue with a potential SH redundancy is avoided.
Enough have taken VR or will take early retirement or LWOP to reduce numbers to the forecast 2022/23 levels so no further redundancies needed. Remaining crew will be stood down until they are needed.
Thereíll still be a RIN needed for any 747 crew who didnít take VR or ER, but the training out of that will be well into the future.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 06:30
  #1300 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Not really.

As a lot of people have now quite correctly predicted, CR will not be required, so any issue with a potential SH redundancy is avoided.
Enough have taken VR or will take early retirement or LWOP to reduce numbers to the forecast 2022/23 levels so no further redundancies needed. Remaining crew will be stood down until they are needed.
Thereíll still be a RIN needed for any 747 crew who didnít take VR or ER, but the training out of that will be well into the future.
How do you know that these numbers get them where they want to be and no further redundancy is needed? The word is the RIN will occur before years end as they wish to get the training done while the sim centre in Sydney is operating.
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