QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages
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There are a few in phase three that potentially look promising, but, they could still be years away from approval for use in Australia. I am by no means a doomsday spreader but you have to be a realist now and the reality is what it is and that's a vaccine with actual research and testing not like that Russian Vodka injection.
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I love the that career advice is being handed out regarding taking LWOP, risking not taking LWOP and receiving a CR etc yet you can't even agree on how long the company can keep you stood down for. I hope people aren't basing their decisions based on some of the "facts" on here.
Why would you be thinking about LWOP if you don’t have another job locked in?
Once you’re on LWOP the company washes their hands of you. You should hope that your new job sticks too because you can’t go running back to QF if you want to.
Im getting the funny feeling that QF know that they can’t run stand downs in the long term. I don’t know how they are going to get around it, or afford it, hence the reason to get rid of so many now....and reduce MGH!
Once you’re on LWOP the company washes their hands of you. You should hope that your new job sticks too because you can’t go running back to QF if you want to.
Im getting the funny feeling that QF know that they can’t run stand downs in the long term. I don’t know how they are going to get around it, or afford it, hence the reason to get rid of so many now....and reduce MGH!
This will not end well , still many wide bodies flying to Australia, they may have freight on them but we don’t really know .
Meanwhile Qantas Long Haul is grounded , no opportunity for them it seems .
Or they are planning to shut down long haul and start it from scratch in a Year or 2 , the savings and new contract would be enormous.
Meanwhile Qantas Long Haul is grounded , no opportunity for them it seems .
Or they are planning to shut down long haul and start it from scratch in a Year or 2 , the savings and new contract would be enormous.
Couple of things.
Qf Longhaul is not grounded. There are A330s flying selected freight charters overseas and some domestic-predominantly east coast to Perth. It’s extremely disappointing that the government is awarding the remainder of the freight contracts to overseas government owned companies. But that’s another conversation I guess.
Normanton. I’ve read through your diatribe long enough without commenting. For goodness sake. You joined under an EBA. That agreement has provisions that basically say last on first off. It’s not an entitlement senior people are forcing on junior people. It’s the agreement that every pilot who accepts employment at Qantas works under. So stop this nonsense about senior people out to get junior people. You accepted an offer of employment at the company to work under this agreement. When you joined there were going to be people senior to you who in the event of CR would see you leave before them. Accept it and move on. Regardless of where anyone is on the list, no one wants to see any of their colleagues put through the stress of CR. If you believe taking LWOP will prevent you or your colleagues from CR then fantastic. Take it and be be on you way. But please stop this tantrum and carry about senior people out to get junior folk.
Qf Longhaul is not grounded. There are A330s flying selected freight charters overseas and some domestic-predominantly east coast to Perth. It’s extremely disappointing that the government is awarding the remainder of the freight contracts to overseas government owned companies. But that’s another conversation I guess.
Normanton. I’ve read through your diatribe long enough without commenting. For goodness sake. You joined under an EBA. That agreement has provisions that basically say last on first off. It’s not an entitlement senior people are forcing on junior people. It’s the agreement that every pilot who accepts employment at Qantas works under. So stop this nonsense about senior people out to get junior people. You accepted an offer of employment at the company to work under this agreement. When you joined there were going to be people senior to you who in the event of CR would see you leave before them. Accept it and move on. Regardless of where anyone is on the list, no one wants to see any of their colleagues put through the stress of CR. If you believe taking LWOP will prevent you or your colleagues from CR then fantastic. Take it and be be on you way. But please stop this tantrum and carry about senior people out to get junior folk.
Last edited by regitaekilthgiwt; 12th Aug 2020 at 01:55.
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Is the EA worth the paper it’s written on if the company goes into administration. Let’s face it, the debt levels are higher than VA’s when it went into administration. Add ongoing lease payments and employee entitlements the debt levels surely are north of 10 billion, with insufficient revenue in the short to medium term to service this debt. Company burning 40 million a week before the failed ramp up due to ongoing boarder closures and the numerous executives pay back on the books albeit at 85%( $1,000,000 @ 85% =$850,000 - thanks for taking one for the team guys). Interesting EOFY result announcement coming given the need to artificially inflate the share price for the 100 year anniversary. Senior, junior or LWOP, I think we are all in trouble. Hoping for a vaccine and praying it’s not too late.
It's hardly surprising then that there is disagreement amongst the group (and a few not affected) as to how long Qantas can keep crew stood-down.
188 is the number
There's a reason for that. Both the EA and FW have quite non-specific phraseology with regard to stand-down. In effect they state that a company can leave staff stood-down whilst there is no work for those staff perform for circumstances beyond the company's control. Depending upon your point of view this can mean, in the Qantas Longhaul case, that staff can be stood-down until the first regular scheduled international service is planned through to until such time as any specific fleet has sufficient flying to stand-up all of the crew. The Pilots would prefer the former, the company the latter and any number of interpretations in between.
It's hardly surprising then that there is disagreement amongst the group (and a few not affected) as to how long Qantas can keep crew stood-down.
It's hardly surprising then that there is disagreement amongst the group (and a few not affected) as to how long Qantas can keep crew stood-down.
When the legislation was written it was never envisaged that it would be needed for more than a few weeks or all that many impacted. Essentially it's a vehicle by which a company can impose upon you use of leave entitlements without having applied for leave. In many companies they do that anyway these days, for example the christmas shutdown period. All employees are on annual leave that week whether you want to be or not. A draft amendment to that would be in the works, expect that around the end of jobkeeper. Your workplace agreement does not supersede any state or federal legislation. You'll find that in the preamble in the opening statements.
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Hold your horses....we will just have to wait for the latest Normanton update for clear guidance and clarification on the situation. He must be crunching the numbers as we speak.
So the domino has fallen just as many wise old heads have suggested. Next Early Retirement packages.
Short haul pilots, many of whom were wanting a VR package are still waiting.
Stood down provisions and JobKeeper greatly mitigates the short term surplus.
Of course the company are falling over themselves to help the LWOP decision. How many CR’s are required before the first SH Pilot is (potentially) affected? (The answer is around 15) A solid floor to CR numbers exists right there because of transfer of business restrictions. How would Network expand if a SH Pilot is CR’d? Oh that’s right...that’s not the company’s interpretation. Good luck. Take LWOP if it suits, otherwise sit tight.
Short haul pilots, many of whom were wanting a VR package are still waiting.
Stood down provisions and JobKeeper greatly mitigates the short term surplus.
Of course the company are falling over themselves to help the LWOP decision. How many CR’s are required before the first SH Pilot is (potentially) affected? (The answer is around 15) A solid floor to CR numbers exists right there because of transfer of business restrictions. How would Network expand if a SH Pilot is CR’d? Oh that’s right...that’s not the company’s interpretation. Good luck. Take LWOP if it suits, otherwise sit tight.
Last edited by crosscutter; 12th Aug 2020 at 06:36.
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I don’t think Network will expand to rapidly for the foreseeable future, unless they get a 320 sim in WA or add 14 days of hotel quarantine to their cost base. Even then Ansett sim centre will be closed for as long as stage 4 in VIC go on as mentioned by Dan this could go past Sep if ppl don’t start doing the what they’re told.
Not really my point. Rather, as soon as SH Pilot is passed over for CR a court case the company could do without...one which they could lose...would probably occur. If CR occurred in pure seniority order and that includes SH pilots, that leaves recruitment in Network and Cobham stalled until that SH Pilot is reemployed in their old position. Dogs breakfast...you bet.
There's a reason for that. Both the EA and FW have quite non-specific phraseology with regard to stand-down. In effect they state that a company can leave staff stood-down whilst there is no work for those staff perform for circumstances beyond the company's control. Depending upon your point of view this can mean, in the Qantas Longhaul case, that staff can be stood-down until the first regular scheduled international service is planned through to until such time as any specific fleet has sufficient flying to stand-up all of the crew. The Pilots would prefer the former, the company the latter and any number of interpretations in between.
It's hardly surprising then that there is disagreement amongst the group (and a few not affected) as to how long Qantas can keep crew stood-down.
It's hardly surprising then that there is disagreement amongst the group (and a few not affected) as to how long Qantas can keep crew stood-down.
188. Well done to whomever crunch the numbers on the offer, on the money eh
Last edited by maggot; 12th Aug 2020 at 07:35.
As a lot of people have now quite correctly predicted, CR will not be required, so any issue with a potential SH redundancy is avoided.
Enough have taken VR or will take early retirement or LWOP to reduce numbers to the forecast 2022/23 levels so no further redundancies needed. Remaining crew will be stood down until they are needed.
There’ll still be a RIN needed for any 747 crew who didn’t take VR or ER, but the training out of that will be well into the future.