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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 30th Jul 2020, 20:48
  #1121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
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Originally Posted by The_Equaliser View Post
B&B,
Jobkeeper will end so donít bank on that. Super contributions not paid during stand down will accrue a super offset debt to be repaid out of your final benefit. Depending on fleet, your stand down could be much longer, think A380 or B747.
And even the leave accrual may not be accrued at the same rate, or even at all, if any EBA variation is negotiated.

Donít forget management have stated they want 0% spent on long haul staff if there are 0 long haul flights.

You wonít be effectively getting $85k pa if you are stood down. You will be getting the amount written on your VR form however if you take it.

Whatís that old saying, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? But in this case it might be a bird in the hand is definitely worth more than zero in the bush!
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 00:06
  #1122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: melbourne
Posts: 575
Originally Posted by Come in spinner View Post
Dragon Man
you are delusional, 330 will go before 787 do you have an agenda reference LWOP an VR?
787 wont fly unless its international,the power by the hour deal makes it totally uneconomic for short sectors i.e domestic ops.
The silver 78's dont operate with the same deal.
Some 330's may & prob will go to desert however they can be brought back with relatively short notice & the ones remaining here can fly many more sectors if needed.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 00:33
  #1123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: East Coast
Posts: 6
All risk reward. I have decided to take the money now if they approve it. Worst case scenario is that things don't pick up quickly enough, the company goes into admin, and there is no money available for redundancy entitlements. Leave won't be accrued at the same rate and value for much longer I suspect. Changes to MGH will also reduce future payout amounts possibly. Finally, reading some of the attitudes displayed on this thread has made me realise I really don't want to work for the company anymore, and have to listen to endless garbage in the middle of the night from the Norms.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 00:55
  #1124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2
Had heard the same regarding 787. Now that they're leased, they're going to be some of the most expensive aircraft to bring back to regular flying. There's 3 more to arrive too and they can't get out of it.

330 will apparently plug the gaps to travel zones when they eventually open up and hopefully all over the domestic network in the meantime.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 01:46
  #1125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,329
I doubt wages will return to pre COVID levels for a few years and A380's future is highly uncertain. If I was 60+ I'd try for the best VR/early retirement package I could get. Take a few feet off the length of the boat you're planning on buying and console yourself that you can start doing the things you want a few years earlier and your health will be better with a few years less long haul flying damage.

Singapore Airlines will be offering early retirement to pilots over the age of 50 with 15+ years of service. Leaving in your 50s is a different matter as unless you have done really well financially i.e. joined young, got an early command, stayed married to the same woman and made some good investments it would be a stretch. Most pilots would need the remaining 10 years to finish off the mortgage and fill up the retirement pot before pulling the plug.

Below 50 I would be clinging on as hard as I could unless I had an alternate career or business that I could easily step into.

Unfortunately, most of us in the latter part of our careers are going to have to lower our expectations of retirement with less travel and fewer toys. Those in their 30s and 40s who can remain employed should be okay as time is on their side.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 01:58
  #1126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200

The Vr package for a Captain on the 747 is nowhere near $400,000 after tax. For a 35 year Captain the tax free component is $203,349. Min guarantee is 1040 hours at approx $330 an hour $343,200 minus the $203,349 leaves $139,851 at your marginal tax rate.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 04:31
  #1127 (permalink)  
Keg

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If the VR was you’re only income for the year tax on $139K is $39K. So closer to $300K after tax.

To go back to B&Blue’s comments, I can’t see myself clearing that amount of money in the next two years. I’ll consider it a win if I clear that amount in the next three! That takes them to 64. Betting big on that last 12 months!
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 04:52
  #1128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 395
You go Keg!
It is incumbent on those to forever try to get rid of those more senior.
Trip them over in the terminal or whatever!
I’m with you by the way!
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 04:58
  #1129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 395
Actually I’m very interested in this ‘variabilisation’ thing.
When you don’t actually know what you’re talking about then just make something up.
Common thought is that it refers to a reduction in MGH. How will that save money?
I’m guessing that those stood up are flying to, or at least planning on flying, MGH. So why the need to reduce it?
What if after January when the feds lift international travel bans that QF are forced to stand everyone up?
A lot less costly if everyone is on reduced MGH?
Is that ‘variabilisation’?
I guess at least people will be stood up?
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 05:25
  #1130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Someplace else
Age: 38
Posts: 1,384
I donít have a dog in this fight, but I heard something rather profound yesterday.

Get a 1 metre ruler and assume each centimetre is equal to a year. Assuming you get to close to 100 years before curtains, how many centimetres have you got left? My bet is nowhere near enough.

If you can, take the package and run, go fly something light and fun and real, remember why you got into flying in the first place, remember the smell of 100LL and hot oil. Talk copious amounts of shit in and around hangars. Try and pass on some war stories and knowledge to the beginners, even take them flying. Its an awesome way to waste a weekend, I assure you.

Or go and be a grotty yachtty, bob up and down the east coast living on the smell of an oily rag. Or go and be a grey nomad (but please dont). Or take up woodworking, or cottage gardening. Or write your memoirs, something for your children and grandchildren to read after youíre gone. Or get big dark/reflective glasses and become a professional ornithologist.

I am hopefully, just over a third of my way through and I already feel shortchanged on length (of life that is, well on everything if Iím being honest). I wish you all the best in your decision making, may you make the best decision for a happy life.

j3
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 07:10
  #1131 (permalink)  
Keg

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Originally Posted by Wingspar View Post
You go Keg!
It is incumbent on those to forever try to get rid of those more senior.
Trip them over in the terminal or whatever!
Iím with you by the way!
No doubt in 11.5 years just after Iíve turned 61 people will be encouraging me to take the deal on offer then too!

A lower MGH allows a couple of things in the medium term. In terms of rostering it doesnít mean much when the divisor sits below ~90 per BP (equivalent to month on, month off). Once the flying increases above about 90/ month on, month off, thatís where a lower divisor of 100, 120, 140 (per 8 week BP) enables things to ramp back up without putting significant additional costs on the business (for which there is no income to cover the additional $$$ to pay everyone 160 when theyíre only flying 100, 120, 140, etc).

Of course QF may argue that a lower MGH lowers the cost of AL and LSL accrued with that lower MGH. Iíd need to see some serious quid pro quo to consider devaluing any AL or LSL accrued whilst stood down post a variation vote. Iím somewhat ambivalent about what that could look like. Perhaps even equity and various bonuses tied to the CEOs for the next decade or so.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 12:38
  #1132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by Keg View Post
MGH lowers the cost of AL and LSL accrued with that lower MGH.
This.

There are plenty of people doing it tough out there at the moment, granted, but this is just a step too far. If you take VR or, heaven forbid, are made CR, then your accrued leave is paid out the full rate. I wonít be able to support a reduction to MGH if it devalues accrued leave.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 12:48
  #1133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
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Why reduce mgh when we can just be stood up as needed to hit the hours? Or is there an end of stand downs foreseen with a bill to be avoided, for better or worse
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 12:48
  #1134 (permalink)  
Keg

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It depends on what you mean by ‘accrued leave’. The company is on record that any leave currently in your leave bank retains full value. However it appears from reading between the lines on webinars that with a lower MGH, leave accrued in the future with a lower MGH will have a lower value.

Again, it’d have to be a massive quid pro quo to seriously consider this.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 13:03
  #1135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by Keg View Post
The company is on record that any leave currently in your leave bank retains full value.
I must have misheard that, I thought Tino said they would look at it. Iíll take your word for it.

Still, in my humble opinion, being stood down without pay is being pretty darn flexible and allows QF to variablise my cost base enough. On the other hand they could variablise me right out the door so I get that perspective is required.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 21:31
  #1136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
I must have misheard that, I thought Tino said they would look at it. Iíll take your word for it.

Still, in my humble opinion, being stood down without pay is being pretty darn flexible and allows QF to variablise my cost base enough. On the other hand they could variablise me right out the door so I get that perspective is required.
Exactly!
You canít vary your wages bill anymore than stand employees down with no pay.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 22:52
  #1137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,200
If any one can get blood from a stone it’s Qantas, they will threaten and bully until they get what they want.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 23:16
  #1138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
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Originally Posted by Keg View Post
It depends on what you mean by Ďaccrued leaveí. The company is on record that any leave currently in your leave bank retains full value. However it appears from reading between the lines on webinars that with a lower MGH, leave accrued in the future with a lower MGH will have a lower value.

Again, itíd have to be a massive quid pro quo to seriously consider this.
The quid pro quo will be "We're offering you additional chances to do some flying and earn at least half of your normal income." Whilst the number of pilots who benefit from that outnumber the pilots who will be relying to any degree on previously and future accrued leave for any Qantas income in the next few years, the vote will get up.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 23:29
  #1139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
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Originally Posted by j3pipercub View Post
I donít have a dog in this fight, but I heard something rather profound yesterday.

Get a 1 metre ruler and assume each centimetre is equal to a year. Assuming you get to close to 100 years before curtains, how many centimetres have you got left? My bet is nowhere near enough.
With average life expectancy you need to cut off that ruler by the time it gets to your early 80ís. Then itís striking how little time most people have left after they reach 65.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 23:41
  #1140 (permalink)  
Keg

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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5,551
An MGH below 80 doesn’t allow additional chances for flying. It’s only once MGH is between 80 and 160 that it allows additional crew to fly.

The real question is whether the pilot group is prepared to vote for a lower MGH AND to allow training onto a type so that more pilots can get flying.

Again, a lower MGH that devalues future leave accrual would need to be part of a package that includes such considerations.
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