All borders to reopen.
Thisjusbthe way it should have always been reported. Someone dying Tuesday afternoon then announcing the cause at 11am Wednesday morning. A lot of deaths that shouldn’t had been have been “caused” by covid.
Yeah that's the wheat belt. We don't use imported labour, it's Farmers working with Farmers. $8B over 6 weeks. What you're talking about are the fruit growers, they have always used imported workers, Australians (city people) won't do it, too busy going to the beach. Market Gardens are closer to the cities and operate all year round, that's your tomatoes, potatoes, anything that's pulled out of the ground.
Farmers got used to scamming backpackers for WHV extensions now suddenly its wont someone think of the farmers.
Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.
Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.
I have a satellite photo somewhere of the wheat belt in harvest at night somewhere, it looks like the busiest place on earth
Last edited by Xeptu; 3rd Sep 2021 at 00:03.
Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.
and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.
The Wheat Belt, Wheat, Sheep, Wool, Feed Stock (hay) we would never use backpackers, the farmer (owner) is always the header operator and the neighbouring farmers operate the chase vehicles and silo runs. It's flat out almost non stop busiest time of the year.
The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions.
If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.
Last edited by 43Inches; 3rd Sep 2021 at 00:28.
Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.
Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.
The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.
If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.
The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.
If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.
Complete BS - UK fatality stats included anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive, irrespective of cause or nature of their death.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest
3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021
3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021
The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide.
Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data.
Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data.
We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".
Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see Section 8 of the methodology article.
Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see Section 8 of the methodology article.
Last edited by 43Inches; 3rd Sep 2021 at 01:15.
The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions. So they die WITH WuHu flu not because of it. So the daily death list, which is getting really boring and should be dropped is people who die WITH WuHu flu not necessarily FROM it.
Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.
and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.
Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.
and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.
You do know how stupid that sounds right, and the numbers would be 10 times higher if that were the case, as with the US. The numbers would be 1000s per day right now if someone that had just tested positive with covid in the last 28 days was also listed as a covid death related. Car crashes, cancer patients, heart attack victims would all be classified with covid, just due to how many have covid in those countries, its not like Australia where we have tiny case numbers. The mortality statistics for the UK has exact process of what is included or not, hence why the 75% statement I made earlier.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mobi.../idUSKBN29J2TH
I'll just re-post the same thing as you are quoting Reuters over the actual people who compile the data,
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN29J2TH
Did you actually read what that article says?
It's a fact check on that headline and the outcome at the bottom says it finds the headline as false.... so I'm not sure why you posted something that says what you are asserting is false anyway.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest
[size=13px]3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021[/size]
[size=13px]3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021[/size]
The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide.
Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data.
Quote:
We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".
Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see Section 8 of the methodology article.
Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data.
Quote:
We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".
Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see Section 8 of the methodology article.
Did you actually read what that article says?
It's a fact check on that headline and the outcome at the bottom says it finds the headline as false.... so I'm not sure why you posted something that says what you are asserting is false anyway.
You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.
You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.
Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.
People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.
Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.
People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive Covid test as positive. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.
You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.
Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.
People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.
Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.
People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
You better stop thinking before that bean of yours implodes.
The 28 and 60 day cutoffs are made to exclude outliers to get better ideas when estimating numbers.
A COVID-19 death is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 disease (e.g. trauma).
Last edited by 43Inches; 3rd Sep 2021 at 04:29.
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It seems there a difference between how NHS England records deaths with a COVID positive result and how the ONS records them. Since the NHS figures only include deaths in hospital, they are generally lower than the ONS figures. Lots of fun reading on the PHE methodology for those with time on their hands available at https://www.gov.uk/government/public...hnical-summary
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You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.
You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.
Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.
People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.
Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.
People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)
England uses two methods of counting Covid deaths, PHE uses the 28 day list, to rapidly estimate numbers and ONS which is measured from actual data such as death certificates and such. PHE you must have tested positive to be included in the estimate regardless of certificate notice. At the early stages there was no time frame on PHE data, which recently caused it to blow out in numbers so they restricted it to 28 days and 60 days dependent on other factors. When compared to ONS data the PHE data is within 25%, as I stated earlier. So the documented death data and mortality statistics are definitely similar, anything beyond a few weeks old is going to be corrected by ONS data. The gov data has adjusted the statistics to show the 28 day data, but if you click on that the ONS data is readily available to reference.
Prior to the 28 day limit the real death rate was somewhere between ONS and PHE, after the limit the actual numbers are said to be slightly higher than both.
Happy you bothered to mention me, and wasted some of your time, BTW I have no fear of covid, fully vaxxed and happily wandering around even in areas full of it. I'm just trying to reason with the concrete girders that have formed between some ears who continue to quote rubbish and use information that is obviously wrong.
But keep posting you really do amuse me, and my small mind.
PS, one thing that really does confuse me, can you actually debate anything, or are you not smart enough to actually contribute and not just stir the pot on occasion when you get angry and want to launch a sarcastic remark in a passive aggressive manner by pretending to talk to another poster? Its sort of a mark of a person with low self confidence and worth that you cant back your own agenda with your own information.
Prior to the 28 day limit the real death rate was somewhere between ONS and PHE, after the limit the actual numbers are said to be slightly higher than both.
You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)
But keep posting you really do amuse me, and my small mind.
PS, one thing that really does confuse me, can you actually debate anything, or are you not smart enough to actually contribute and not just stir the pot on occasion when you get angry and want to launch a sarcastic remark in a passive aggressive manner by pretending to talk to another poster? Its sort of a mark of a person with low self confidence and worth that you cant back your own agenda with your own information.
Last edited by 43Inches; 3rd Sep 2021 at 05:34.