All borders to reopen.

[MickG0105]

Originally Posted by compressor stall

I wasn't supporting its rigour or methodology (I'll let the established process take care of that) rather I was just pointing out that even if does pass, its conclusions are not paradigm shifting, and hardly anything to base an alternative narrative on.

Fair enough. Sadly, regardless of where that study lands you'll have some touting the no difference in viral load malarkey as proof that vaccines don't work.

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by MickG0105

Fair enough. Sadly, regardless of where that study lands you'll have some touting the no difference in viral load malarkey as proof that vaccines don't work.

I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

As I read through previous posts here, there is still some that are of that same understanding. On that basis when someone says it doesn't work are they technically correct, just misguided by what it does.

[Xeptu]

Two Billion Dollars a week the lockdowns are costing, surely that would have justified a dedicated quarantine facility outside of our Capital Cities in each State, similar to Howard Springs.

[mattyj]

Of course lockdowns work to slow the spread of disease.

opinion stated as fact

[Turnleft080]

Originally Posted by Tucknroll

Opinion stated as fact. Of course lockdowns work to slow the spread of disease.

You forgot to add, they prolong them forever.

[PoppaJo]

Will be interesting to see how she tries to respond tomorrow to the statements made from the CHO in Canberra this evening. Normally the stock
standard ‘We follow the medical advice’...Errrrr the big boss is calling for a circuit breaker Gladys...isn’t that not following the advice?

She did say cases will continue to deteriorate tomorrow, and as she had 18 hours of data already at today’s presser, seems like we are into the 300s now.

[mattyj]

Dry timber

[SOPS]

The consensus here in the West tonight, on all radio and TV news services seems to be, that unless Gladys does something fast and big, NSW will be locked out of WA until at least the end of the year.

[AerialPerspective]

Originally Posted by Xeptu

I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

As I read through previous posts here, there is still some that are of that same understanding. On that basis when someone says it doesn't work are they technically correct, just misguided by what it does.

Isn't the relative threat of infection following full vaccination a factor of the individual vaccine efficacy?? I've had the first AZ and decided to wait the whole 12 weeks to get the second one as it apparently pushes the efficacy to near 100% (certainly in the 90s, as opposed to the 70s I believe when 1 and 2 are 4 weeks apart).

I'm happy to be corrected as I am not a Doctor but that would suggest to me on logic that at 90%+ the chance of getting infected or getting infected and having ANY symptoms is pretty slim, whereas lower efficacy might mean infection and slight symptoms.

I watch Bill Maher's Real Time occasionally and a month or two ago he was tested for Covid and tested positive although he had been fully vaccinated (not sure which one or the time between the doses, but since he's in the US, I'd guess Moderna, Pfizer or J&J) and according to his Press Release, while the virus was present in his system, he had absolutely zero symptoms.

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by SOPS

The consensus here in the West tonight, on all radio and TV news services seems to be, that unless Gladys does something fast and big, NSW will be locked out of WA until at least the end of the year.

It's going to take WA that long to get your vaccination rates above the mythical 70/80% for Phase B?

[Turnleft080]

Originally Posted by SOPS

The consensus here in the West tonight, on all radio and TV news services seems to be, that unless Gladys does something fast and big, NSW will be locked out of WA until at least the end of the year.

Phew. You scared the absolute crap out of me Sops, I thought you were going to say this time next year.

[Xeptu]

Originally Posted by AerialPerspective

Isn't the relative threat of infection following full vaccination a factor of the individual vaccine efficacy?? I've had the first AZ and decided to wait the whole 12 weeks to get the second one as it apparently pushes the efficacy to near 100% (certainly in the 90s, as opposed to the 70s I believe when 1 and 2 are 4 weeks apart).

I'm happy to be corrected as I am not a Doctor but that would suggest to me on logic that at 90%+ the chance of getting infected or getting infected and having ANY symptoms is pretty slim, whereas lower efficacy might mean infection and slight symptoms.

I watch Bill Maher's Real Time occasionally and a month or two ago he was tested for Covid and tested positive although he had been fully vaccinated (not sure which one or the time between the doses, but since he's in the US, I'd guess Moderna, Pfizer or J&J) and according to his Press Release, while the virus was present in his system, he had absolutely zero symptoms.

Yes!, that's exactly the way I understand it works "today" we'll still become infected, we'll still be contagious albeit to a lesser degree, we just may not know it (assymptomatic). That still doesn't address any long term implications that infection may cause.

Reiterating prior to Covid, most thought as I did, vaccination prevents infection, which isn't the case for Corona Viruses. Sorta makes sense otherwise we should have eliminated the flu by now.

[SOPS]

Originally Posted by KRviator

It's going to take WA that long to get your vaccination rates above the mythical 70/80% for Phase B?

I think it was because of this statement from the Golden Girl who Does It Differently.


https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cor...down-c-3607977

[Tucknroll]

Originally Posted by mattyj

opinion stated as fact

No, I think you’ll find it is fact stated as fact:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3616969

Are you seriously suggesting that lockdowns do not reduce the spread of a virus within a community?

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by SOPS

I think it was because of this statement from the Golden Girl who Does It Differently.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cor...down-c-3607977

And if the mindset behind publishing that article is to be understood, it shows WA likely has no intention of honouring the so-called "fully agreed" National Cabinet Phase B. Th goal of which is to

Originally Posted by Our Fearless Leader

This phase seeks to minimise serious illness, hospitalisation and fatalities from COVID-19 and measures will include:

• Restrictions easing on vaccinated residents, which could include lockdowns and border controls
• Lockdowns only in "extreme circumstances" to prevent escalating hospitalisation and fatality
• Restore inbound passenger caps at previous levels for unvaccinated returning travellers and larger caps for vaccinated returning travellers
• Allow capped entry of student and economic visa holders subject to quarantine arrangements being available
• Introduce new reduced quarantine arrangements for vaccinated residents
• The possible introductions of a COVID vaccine booster programme

That leaves vaccination, however, if/when NSW makes the target and still has cases, then what? I'll stake a carton of beer that irrespective of the actual vaccination %-age above target, case numbers or hospitalizations, the borders won't reopen so long as there is community transmission in NSW.

[Xeptu]

Restrictions easing on vaccinated residents, which could include.....

That would be all of them would it not.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by KRviator

And if the mindset behind publishing that article is to be understood, it shows WA likely has no intention of honouring the so-called "fully agreed" National Cabinet Phase B.

Actually no, the National Roadmap does include lockdowns in Phase B, and also in Phase C for specific locations in extreme circumstances. There’s no conflict between what the Federal government and the WA government have said regarding the roadmap.

[MickG0105]

Originally Posted by Xeptu

I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

As I read through previous posts here, there is still some that are of that same understanding. On that basis when someone says it doesn't work are they technically correct, just misguided by what it does.

Yes, for sure, I think that if you're of a certain age you might remember getting the oral polio vaccination and the tuberculosis BCG vaccination as a kid and associating that with essentially zero cases of either. Or if you've got kids of your own, associating the MMR or MMRV vaccines with essentially zero cases of any of measles, mumps, rubella or chicken pox (Varicella).

One of the big differences, of course, is that none of those vaccines or our experience of them was during a pandemic, where the targeted disease was prevalent.

Interestingly or otherwise, one of the hitherto most commonly received vaccinations is for seasonal flu. The purpose of that vaccine is not to stop infection, it is to stop an infection manifesting as a serious illness. People would sometimes get crook from an influenza infection after being vaccinated against the seasonal flu but would not be perturbed because the vaccine prevented the serious illness that is properly associated with the flu. Most people would shrug the mild presentation off as a cold. And no one got bent out of shape about it because there was no associated flu test to demonstrate that despite being vaccinated against the flu you were in fact infected by it.

That's why understanding the efficacy end point is important. What you want from a vaccine is for it to condition your immune system such that when you are infected you don't become seriously ill, don't need to be hospitalised, don't need to be admitted to ICU and don't subsequently die. Ideally it should also reduce your ability to transmit the disease if you do become infected but frankly if the vaccine is efficacious at preventing serious illness AND you have a good uptake of the vaccine in the population, forward transmission isn't as much of a concern.

And what we are seeing in the data out of places like Israel is that the vaccines are reducing hospitalisations, ICU admissions and deaths by an order of magnitude (that is, by around 90 percent).

[compressor stall]

Originally Posted by Xeptu

I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

From the UK using up to date data....
"Although individuals may not develop symptoms of COVID-19 after vaccination, it is possible that they could still be infected with the virus and could transmit to others. Understanding how effective vaccines are at preventing infection is therefore important to predict the likely impact of the vaccination programme on the wider population. In order to estimate vaccine effectiveness against infection, repeat asymptomatic testing of a defined cohort of individuals is required. Studies have now reported on vaccine effectiveness against infection in healthcare workers, care home residents and the general population. With the Pfizer-BioNTech, estimates of effectiveness against infection range from around 55 to 70%, with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine they range from around 60 to 70% (5, 13, 14, 15). With 2 of 2 doses of either vaccine effectiveness against infection is estimated at around 65 to 90% (5, 13)."
Latest UK Vaccination Summary Report

[machtuk]

I would never have thought our society would end up ruined, divided fighting each other and on our knees like this! Oddly enuf not from wars, not from some Virus that 99% of people who get it recover from or even from an alien attack but from an evil force right under our noses, the silent killers the corrupt grubby Govt hell bent on destruction!
We are doomed for the foreseeable future!